HBO's TRUE DETECTIVES: NIGHT COUNTRY (2023) 1 1

[Bosco685]

Feels like we have been "The Outsider"ed again by HBO. Although with that show there was a lot of solid buildup to that weak finale.

[Azkaban]

That was just terrible 

[LowGradeBronze]

Ultimately disappointing but entertaining along the way. Too many little tantalising clues left that just weren't followed up. Here's one: In the icecave science lab they look up and you see the spiral form of a skeleton lizard or something frozen in the ice and that's never even mentioned again. Then there's the guy who was in the frozen mass of dead scientists who comes to life again (!!!) And it's mentioned that he's in hospital under sedation after having his arm snapped off but he's never mentioned again either. Ludicrous. Or did I miss something?

[g-man]

On 2/20/2024 at 4:52 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

Ultimately disappointing but entertaining along the way. Too many little tantalising clues left that just weren't followed up. Here's one: In the icecave science lab they look up and you see the spiral form of a skeleton lizard or something frozen in the ice and that's never even mentioned again. Then there's the guy who was in the frozen mass of dead scientists who comes to life again (!!!) And it's mentioned that he's in hospital under sedation after having his arm snapped off but he's never mentioned again either. Ludicrous. Or did I miss something?

Spoiler

i thought those were bodies in the shape of a spiral but maybe I missed it?? 

 

[Browns81]

Show was disappointing .

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

All I could think when it was over was a flashback to this from the first season. 

[fantastic_four]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:08 PM, jimjum12 said:

So far, to me, the comparisons to the first season are unwarranted. We're on 4 or 5 episodes now and I honestly don't know what the crime really involves, nor do I care who is the perp.

We didn't know those things in season 1, either, until the end of the next to last episode, i.e. episode 7.  Caring about it by then is a different thing.

[fantastic_four]

On 2/20/2024 at 4:52 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

Then there's the guy who was in the frozen mass of dead scientists who comes to life again (!!!) And it's mentioned that he's in hospital under sedation after having his arm snapped off but he's never mentioned again either. Ludicrous. Or did I miss something?

You missed a few things in episode 3, although perhaps the picture below will re-associate them for you because you may have just missed that the guy in the hospital was Lund, the one scientist who unbelievably revived from being a corpsesicle.  The idea of living with body-wide gangrene is the worst body horror moment for me since the Sloth guy in "Seven."    How he could have survived that is one of dozens of questions Lopez intentionally left open because there should have been no natural way for it to happen.

I don't have a lot of opinion about the second half of the show yet until I hear good hypotheses for all of the plot and story elements Lopez left intentionally vague.  Most television viewers HATE puzzle plots and unanswered questions, so it's not surprising most people don't like the show.  Fan reaction is almost universally negative for those types of shows including Lost, Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions, Prometheus, the Leftovers, etc.  Sometimes I end up liking those shows, sometimes I don't, and sometimes I never get the open questions answered and end up having no opinion.  I'm generally interested in knowing some answers to the questions, but not enough to pursue it vigilantly yet.  

Edited February 21 by fantastic_four

[fantastic_four]

On 2/20/2024 at 4:52 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

Too many little tantalising clues left that just weren't followed up. Here's one: In the icecave science lab they look up and you see the spiral form of a skeleton lizard or something frozen in the ice and that's never even mentioned again.

They mentioned it earlier in the show because it's visible in that video of Annie being attacked that Navarro and Danvers kept watching to find clues.  I think they said it was a whale in that earlier episode, and the reason they show it at all in episode 6 is so that you know for sure you're in the place visible in the video.

One thing I got confused about is where they traveled to in finding the caves.  How did they not realize it was so close to the research station, i.e. right underneath of it?

[Jayman]

With all the spiritual aspects of this season especially with all the “She’s awake” comments, I was getting flashbacks of the first season of The Terror.

[fantastic_four]

On 2/21/2024 at 9:12 AM, Jayman said:

With all the spiritual aspects of this season especially with all the “She’s awake” comments

Lopez has already said there's both a spiritual (Navarro) and rationally factual (Danvers) explanation for everything in the show.

This is still heavily in the hypothesis phase, but my current guess for the "she's awake" stuff is that it has something rational to do with whatever science they were working on.  That's also my current guess for how Lund survived the freezing--he had something swimming in him related to their research that allowed him to survive something that should have killed him.

[fantastic_four]

On 2/19/2024 at 8:39 PM, thegiftedone45 said:

First thing was the big who did it was absolutely dumb.  The cleaning ladies solved the mystery, didn't tell the cops, and then went seal team 6 to get revenge.  Now how did they know that everyone was in on the murder of Annie K? We don't know in the 2 years in between her murder and their revenge if anyone at Tslal had been switched out, I guess that doesn't matter for mob justice though. The scene with the women walking in during the story was really bad also.

Did they kill them as revenge for Annie, or was it more because they were intentionally polluting the environment and causing cancer in the local population?  I couldn't tell what the extent of their knowledge was or which was their motive, but I guessed without evidence that it was probably both.

[fantastic_four]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:58 PM, Jayman said:

Who cut out the damn tongue?!?!!

John Hawkes has already said during interviews about the show that it was his character who did it, i.e. Hank Prior, the dad cop who was shot in episode 5.

Issa Lopez has also commented that she wish Hawkes hadn't said that because her intent was for the audience to have to consider several possible suspects and motives for who removed the tongue, who froze it for years, and who left it at the scene around the time of the murder of the scientists.  So this is another intentionally vague plot point we were meant to speculate upon.

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/21/2024 at 8:25 AM, fantastic_four said:

So this is another intentionally vague plot point we were meant to speculate upon.

[fantastic_four]

On 2/21/2024 at 9:29 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

On 2/21/2024 at 9:25 AM, fantastic_four said:

So this is another intentionally vague plot point we were meant to speculate upon.

That's the usual assumption about this type of writing, and certainly the vast majority of viewers will agree.  I disagree if everything ends up making sense.  Some puzzles are simple, and some are difficult.  I'm not a fan of the Rubik's cube, but that doesn't mean I think Erno Rubik was lazy for not making a puzzle that was easy for me to solve.

As for preference I often enjoy intentionally obtuse stories, but if they're not compelling enough for me to want to solve the puzzle I usually drop it.  My interest is high enough this time to keep it going a bit longer, but probably not if someone else in the thread or the other forums I participate in aren't interested enough to keep working it cooperatively.

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/21/2024 at 8:52 AM, fantastic_four said:

That's the usual assumption about this type of writing, and certainly the vast majority of viewers will agree.  I disagree if everything ends up making sense.  Some puzzles are simple, and some are difficult.  I'm not a fan of the Rubik's cube, but that doesn't mean I think Erno Rubik was lazy for not making a puzzle that was easy for me to solve.

As for preference I often enjoy intentionally obtuse stories, but if they're not compelling enough for me to want to solve the puzzle I usually drop it.  My interest is high enough this time to keep it going a bit longer, but probably not if someone else in the thread or the other forums I participate in aren't interested enough to keep working it cooperatively.

I too enjoy a good puzzle and do not require all of the answers as in life there rarely are most of the answers we seek.  A lot of the aforementioned shows above by you (Lost, Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions, Prometheus, the Leftovers, etc.) I truly enjoyed  . Even if others did not. 

in time this one , once reviewed and revisited I may find that I feel differently,  but for me this one just fell short. It had so much potential especially with the ties to the first strong season. It just never came to fruition.  

I have enjoyed others perspectives on this and some of that has helped me see some different views on this show. Again maybe later i might find myself enjoying it more, but for me this one just wasn't what it could have been. 

now off to revisit Prometheus as I really just loved that one. 

[fantastic_four]

The most common mistake people make with a puzzle-story like this one is that the writers left plot or story holes.  Ummm...yes, they sure did--intentionally.  Not because they screwed up, but because they hoped you'd be compelled to fill it in based upon other evidence in the fiction.

I haven't read any of the critic reviews of this season, but I know with Prometheus I read DOZENS of reviews by critics who assumed plot holes that weren't holes at all, that critic just didn't realize Damon Lindelof left those story elements intentionally open hoping you'd fill it in with the other clues in the film.  Lindelof does that in almost all of his works--he's the reason "Lost" was like that, and it's the reason he adapted "The Leftovers" into a series.  I was far more compelled by Prometheus because I LOVE panspermia stories, but Night Country hasn't grabbed me to the same extent yet.  If I find something in that research the station was doing I could easily become more interested in this story as well.  Has anyone figured out anything specific about what they were hoping that research would lead to?    Clark was pretty vague in that last episode about what he was hoping for from it.

Some authors just like making stories that challenge readers.  Most of us hate Shakespeare's dense language, but it isn't like that because people talked like that in the 16th century--English back then was FAR more similar to modern English than it was to Shakespeare's dialect.  He did it to challenge the audience, and it's totally understandable how deciphering his dense style wouldn't be most people's cup of tea.  Same goes for plot-puzzles like this one; most people were never going to like this show.  

[fantastic_four]

On 2/21/2024 at 10:12 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

in time this one , once reviewed and revisited I may find that I feel differently,  but for me this one just fell short. It had so much potential especially with the ties to the first strong season. It just never came to fruition.  

This is also mostly where I'm at, although I'm withholding judgement for now about how short it fell because I still want to know what their research was.  The part that turns me off the most is echoed by Danvers throughout the season--I have NO patience and almost no interest in Navarro's supernatural angle.  For now I'm ignoring it and chalking it up to hallucinations by her, but I'm afraid I'll never get to Lopez's point by doing that and that once I figure out why she did it that way I won't enjoy it as much.  

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/21/2024 at 9:17 AM, fantastic_four said:

The most common mistake people make with a puzzle-story like this one is that the writers left plot or story holes.  Ummm...yes, they sure did--intentionally.  Not because they screwed up, but because they hoped you'd be compelled to fill it in based upon other evidence in the fiction.

I haven't read any of the critic reviews of this season, but I know with Prometheus I read DOZENS of reviews by critics who assumed plot holes that weren't holes at all, that critic just didn't realize Damon Lindelof left those story elements intentionally open hoping you'd fill it in with the other clues in the film.  Lindelof does that in almost all of his works--he's the reason "Lost" was like that, and it's the reason he adapted "The Leftovers" into a series.  I was far more compelled by Prometheus because I LOVE panspermia stories, but Night Country hasn't grabbed me to the same extent yet.  If I find something in that research the station was doing I could easily become more interested in this story as well.  Has anyone figured out anything specific about what they were hoping that research would lead to?    Clark was pretty vague in that last episode about what he was hoping for from it.

Some authors just like making stories that challenge readers.  Most of us hate Shakespeare's dense language, but it isn't like that because people talked like that in the 16th century--English back then was FAR more similar to modern English than it was to Shakespeare's dialect.  He did it to challenge the audience, and it's totally understandable how deciphering his dense style wouldn't be most people's cup of tea.  Same goes for plot-puzzles like this one; most people were never going to like this show.  

Both Lost and Prometheus were excellent for me. Even though as you put it so many heavily criticized them both.  I really wasn't looking for all the answers.  I have grown up reading and have often found that allowing your own mind/imagination to fill in speculation or holes in a story can be quite satisfying and leads you to exploration of new ideas. 

To be honest this season may have done better to be made as a stand alone movie and semi Sci Fi  along tge styles of the two above. It again had so much potential.  

[jimjum12]

@fantastic_four I've always respected your opinion so I may likely revisit this one at a later date. I've watched and read mysteries for most of my life. Maybe I was distracted at the wrong times, but so far it's mostly been a yawn fest for me. Season 1 hit the ground running, one of my favorite shows in years. I think I may like it better than The Blacklist. With season 3, I haven't watched a new episode in a couple of weeks. I did recently have a stroke and may be slipping with my focus and concentration. Like I said, I'll report back when I give it another go.  GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)