Nominating BlackOut21 7 7

[SkOw]

I was going to wait and hopefully try to resolve this issue without a nomination, but since he has now gone back on his offer AND started a new sales thread of raw books I felt the need to let the board know about what happened. I've had hundreds of great transactions on the boards and really only transactions with Chip Cataldo and one with Dylan (in my defense this was when he was brand new on the boards before everyone new what he was) ended poorly but this one is kind of up there now albeit a step or two below.

In the interest of transparency, I am going to include screen shots of our whole exchange so the board can best decide.  Please note that I did strip out any personally identifiable information of he or I and that several of his PMs were edited (that is one of the issues) so you are seeing how they look now.

Summary before the details:

1) Blackout lists a long box of comics he states has an FMV of 1800 for 1400 on the boards.  He says that he will break it into smaller lots after being warned about mystery boxes (In his defense, and I know he is a new seller here, they did used to be able to be sold here as I bought some from a few boardies previously on here.)

2) I had PMed him asking to see some sample pics of the box, and depending on what they looked like was interested.  He sent me some pics and offered it to me for 1200.  Based on the pictures, I said that as long as it was a full long box of comics with those pictures I would do 1000 on it.  He agreed and I claimed the box per PM in thread.

3) I received a box packed by the UPS store weighing 29 pounds (Red Flag #1 as a packed long box is 50+ pounds)

4) I unbox it and it is substantially less books than what was agreed to.  I snapped some pictures of them in a "shorter" short boxes and in a long box and sent those to the seller asking if another box was coming as that could easily be the problem.

5) Seller said that something may have happened with UPS, then said that there should have been 180 books there. (Red Flag #2 as a long box is 250-300 packed)

6) I count and tell him there are 169 books there and we agree that it is not UPS' fault at all.  I also note that even some of the books pictured are not there though.  I ask for a return and he asks for time to think about it.

7) He offers me a return but says I have to pay shipping both ways.  I tell him that is unacceptable as he did not deliver what was promised.

8) He offers me a refund (I never asked for that and wanted just to send them back) of 33% of the amount since he shorted me about 33%.  I read this and was talking to my wife about it while our family was sitting down for dinner and didn't finish replying.

9) I reply that I will accept it and we can just put this one to bed.  But then I notice that he EDITED his refund offer and said he would give me less than half of what he offered originally!

10) I call him out on it, he tries to blame me for it, and we go back and forth multiple times with him saying he would do the refund then backing out again of any refund.

There is also a lot of gaslighting that he does IMO but I will leave that to you all to decide on your own.  He does a lot of passive aggressively blaming purchasers for things he does.  There are also things that he does like editing posts after making an offer and things like I paid close to 100 for shipping when it says on the label it was 71 bucks (and half of that was UPS packing it for you) or here is 33% of your money back now you can flip them and make a hundred bucks when FMV is 1800.

I don't know if he took books out of the box before he shipped them or what as only a few pictured books weren't there, but the bottom line is this, he did not deliver what he said he would and what was agreed to, and THEN on top of that went back on a refund offer.  At the least I thought the folks on the boards should know who they are dealing with.

Pictures to follow...... 

 

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Edited April 22, 2023 by SkOw
Removed personally identifiable information from a screen shot

[SkOw]

That's all of it.  @BlackOut21 I sent you a PM with the link as well.

[mytastebud]

I've done a lot of business here on the boards and I saw the original posting. Claiming something is a long box and then not delivering it is plain wrong. Most of the sellers here are outstanding in the fact they deliver on what is said in the listing even if it is at a loss for them.

That being said Unless I knew every single book that was included in the deal, I would stay away. I know I bid against skow here on the boards alot so I hope an amicable solution is reached. $1000 is a lot of money.

[Point Five]

Oh man! Sorry to see this.

 

[Ryan.]

This one is somewhat nuanced, as there is an inherent level of good faith trust when buying a lot based on sample pics. Ideally there would have been either a list of books or at the least a specified number of books before the transaction closed. With that said, there is a generally accepted standard for what constitutes a long box of comics and that was clearly not delivered. 

[Funnybooks]

There is no doubt in my mind that @BlackOut21 is in the wrong.

[SkOw]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:26 PM, mytastebud said:

I've done a lot of business here on the boards and I saw the original posting. Claiming something is a long box and then not delivering it is plain wrong. Most of the sellers here are outstanding in the fact they deliver on what is said in the listing even if it is at a loss for them.

That being said Unless I knew every single book that was included in the deal, I would stay away. I know I bid against skow here on the boards alot so I hope an amicable solution is reached. $1000 is a lot of money.

I agree with your point about every single book.  Lesson learned from me, I'm with you.

There are two big issues though here:

1) He did not deliver what was stated and has acknowledged that by offering a 330 dollar refund to counter my request for return.

2) He edited that offer after I read it and then tried to gaslight me on the offer and won't honor what he said he would do.  That is twice in one sale of not honoring what you say you are going to do which has to be rare here. 

[JRBaxter]

What is your required resolution? $330 payment and you keep books? Or full refund and you return all books with blackout paying shipping? Or something else?

[SkOw]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:38 PM, JRBaxter said:

What is your required resolution? $330 payment and you keep books? Or full refund and you return all books with blackout paying shipping? Or something else?

Excellent question.  I accepted his 330 dollar offer I'm a man of my word.  That is the resolution now, but he has stated he won't do that.

[mytastebud]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:36 PM, SkOw said:

I agree with your point about every single book.  Lesson learned from me, I'm with you.

There are two big issues though here:

1) He did not deliver what was stated and has acknowledged that by offering a 330 dollar refund to counter my request for return.

2) He edited that offer after I read it and then tried to gaslight me on the offer and won't honor what he said he would do.  That is twice in one sale of not honoring what you say you are going to do which has to be rare here. 

totally agree and would hope if this happened to me that someone would back me up. 

The seller needs to respond when he/she can

[MattTheDuck]

Fortunately, we don't have a lot of sellers like this, but when we do they're doozies.  Not sure why anyone believes they could away with something like this on these Boards, or would want to just sacrifice the ability to sell here.

[thehumantorch]

not a fan of mystery boxes and I'm not a fan of bulk purchases like this.  A lot can go wrong.  Especially when shipping is expensive and it's tough to reverse course.

Did Blackout show you books as part of the deal that he didn't send? 

Beyond that there are some problems.  It was agreed the long box would be full and it wasn't.  It's 1/3 shy of a full long box.  Blackout must have known the box wasn't full yet he sent it anyways.    Editing PMs is another problem.  I'm not sure it's probation worthy but we should all be careful what we offer and be prepared to stand by any offers we make.  

How much you paid isn't material.  You both agreed to $1000.  I've seen this argument many times.  "I didn't deliver what I promised but it doesn't matter because you still got a good deal."  Sorry, it doesn't fly, a deal is deal and the deal should be completed as promised.

I appreciate that Blackout did make an offer to repair this deal.  Then reconsidered and then there was a back and forth and then things got heated and we're here.  Since shipping is expensive it would be nice if you guys could agree on a fair compromise and move on.  As it stands I'd consider this probation worthy.

[jaybuck43]

Which of the pictured books were not there?  For me that's the biggest offense because while you can argue over how many books constitute a long box (and I do agree with you on that), the fact that he sent pictures of what you WILL get and then you dont get it, that seems like it would be the most probation worthy part, since he didn't send what he promised.  

[SkOw]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:19 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Which of the pictured books were not there?  For me that's the biggest offense because while you can argue over how many books constitute a long box (and I do agree with you on that), the fact that he sent pictures of what you WILL get and then you dont get it, that seems like it would be the most probation worthy part, since he didn't send what he promised.  

I received no x-men in the box and there were at least some pictured at the front of the box so not all books made it.  Sent you a PM too.

[awakeintheashes]

Regardless of the decision here, he’s on my personal list. Sorry this happened to you, but thank you for bringing it to light.