Writers Guild of America (WGA) strike news 2 2

[Sauce Dog]

On 9/26/2023 at 8:31 AM, CAHokie said:

Here is snapshot of all of the different people that work on a set and one way or another out of work during the strike. In reality there are even more people there than this even shows. 

 

  

 

On site medics are omitted, required for basically every shoot and while smaller shoots often only need to have one on site the larger productions I've known used at least two (I personally know a few nurses who get called on for shoots done here in Toronto). These are also separate from any of the medical team associated with the stunt crew (as the specialties are often much different if you need to know how to put out a man on fire as opposed to just handling sprains/cuts/bruises from random crew injury)

[goblinjareth]

On 9/26/2023 at 9:08 AM, CAHokie said:

I am not implying anything and have no hidden agenda.  I have always struggled with the fact that heads of businesses (of any type) get paid so much more than the workers that make things happen, but also realize they have more responsibility and risk, so they are paid more. I have been consistent on this here and in the gold thread.  Naturally the heads of studios are not pulling out of their IRAs because most of them are rich.  If I knew the solution or right answer, I would be rich myself.

"Risk" is so nebulous... I always wonder what it really is. I work for an independent studio, so far less affected by the strike, but my contract/wage/treatment are frankly ridiculous. What risk are the executives taking on that I'm not? They aren't investors; they aren't personally floating loans and upfront costs. I'm just someone in the marketing department that can bear the brunt of their last minute grand ideas with very little room to disagree, and the marketing department will always bear the brunt of the blame and public backlash if those grand ideas backfire. I keep working for bs overtime to implement their ideas because they want something for the morning at 7pm, but they get paid an inconceivable amount more than I do? 

Not really looking to argue with you, just a little rant.  

[Eclipse]

On 9/26/2023 at 10:06 AM, Sauce Dog said:

On site medics are omitted, required for basically every shoot and while smaller shoots often only need to have one on site the larger productions I've known used at least two (I personally know a few nurses who get called on for shoots done here in Toronto). These are also separate from any of the medical team associated with the stunt crew (as the specialties are often much different if you need to know how to put out a man on fire as opposed to just handling sprains/cuts/bruises from random crew injury)

That reminds me, i left out shop medic (for the construction crew)

[NoMan]

get a hold of a call sheet, any call sheet, there's always 10-15 producers

[CAHokie]

On 9/26/2023 at 10:10 AM, goblinjareth said:

"Risk" is so nebulous... I always wonder what it really is. I work for an independent studio, so far less affected by the strike, but my contract/wage/treatment are frankly ridiculous. What risk are the executives taking on that I'm not? They aren't investors; they aren't personally floating loans and upfront costs. I'm just someone in the marketing department that can bear the brunt of their last minute grand ideas with very little room to disagree, and the marketing department will always bear the brunt of the blame and public backlash if those grand ideas backfire. I keep working for bs overtime to implement their ideas because they want something for the morning at 7pm, but they get paid an inconceivable amount more than I do? 

Not really looking to argue with you, just a little rant.  

No, I get it. Trust me, I have no desire to defend them or qualified to do so. In my mind, by risk, I mean collapsing a company and killing the shareholders. Even if they did though, they would still walk away with millions which is amazing.

[CAHokie]

Fyi…. My chart was just to help those that know nothing about the industry realize how many people are a part of it. That’s why I said plus many more. There are so many, some that vary by production, it would be hard to list them all. 
 

[Bosco685]

On 9/26/2023 at 10:11 AM, Eclipse said:

That reminds me, i left out shop medic (for the construction crew)

Oh really? There is separate medical staff depending on your role within a production?

[fantastic_four]

Still no word on which of the writers' demands got scrapped?

[Eclipse]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:23 AM, Bosco685 said:

Oh really? There is separate medical staff depending on your role within a production?

I wouldn't call it a staff but there should always be a shop medic. It's the most dangerous part of the whole show being around saws all the time.

[NoMan]

On 9/26/2023 at 1:43 PM, Eclipse said:

I wouldn't call it a staff but there should always be a shop medic. It's the most dangerous part of the whole show being around saws all the time.

you ever work on a non-union show with no medics? I worked on a show on location once and all the "medics" were strippers from a local strip club who were hired because they were cheap, they thought it would be fun to work on a movie!

 All hilariously  funny and jokes galore until that dude cut his arm off with a saw....

Edited September 26, 2023 by NoMan

[Bosco685]

On 9/26/2023 at 4:53 PM, NoMan said:

you ever work on a non-union show with no medics? I worked on a show on location once and all the "medics" were strippers from a local strip club who were hired because they were cheap, they thought it would be fun to work on a movie!

 All hilariously  funny and jokes galore until that dude cut his arm off with a saw....

Wow!

[Bosco685]

Quote

On the 148th day of the writers strike, the board of the WGA West and council of the WGA East voted unanimously on Tuesday to lift the strike order as of 12:01 a.m. PT on Wednesday. following a tentative agreement on a new contract with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP). That means writers can go back to work as of Wednesday even before the final ratification vote.

 

The ratification vote will be held from Oct. 2-Oct. 9. The WGA will hold member meetings on both coasts this week in person and on zoom to discuss the details of the contract. Given the enthusiastic endorsement of the WGA negotiating committtee, it is expected to be easily ratified by strike-weary members.

 

[Bosco685]

Quote

10. Staffing and Duration Provisions for Episodic Series

Development rooms (aka pre-greenlight rooms) and regular writers’ rooms for television and HBSVOD series will now have requirements regarding the minimum number of writers who must be hired and the duration of their employment. These new provisions go into effect for seasons where the first episode is written after December 1, 2023 assuming ratification in October. 

 

Development rooms: Once 3 writers are convened before a series order, at least 3 writer-producers (including the showrunner) are guaranteed 10 consecutive weeks of employment.

 

Development rooms where writers are guaranteed 20 weeks of work or more are treated as post-greenlight rooms. For these rooms on first season shows, the minimum staff size required will be 3 writer-producers (including the showrunner). For these rooms in the second or subsequent season of a show the required minimum number of writers is determined by the anticipated episode order.

Post-greenlight rooms: The following requirements are triggered depending on the number of episodes ordered, unless a single writer is engaged to write all episodes:

Quote

The minimum staff must be guaranteed at least 20 weeks or the entire duration of the post-greenlight room, whichever is shorter. If there was a development room, the two writer-producers who worked in the development room must be hired for the writers’ room. Weeks worked in the development room can be credited against the guaranteed weeks in the writers’ room, but development room compensation cannot be credited.

Writers in Production: For single-camera series made for HBSVOD and Pay TV that are exclusively filmed in the US and Canada, 2 writer-producers must be employed for the lesser of 20 weeks of production or the duration of production along with the showrunner. The two writer positions can be used for more than two writers provided that the total weeks worked by the additional writers adds up to the minimum required number for each position. 

 

[Bosco685]

 

[Microchip]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:41 AM, Bosco685 said:

 

Is that comparable to residues enjoyed by writers in the past?

[Eclipse]

On 9/26/2023 at 4:53 PM, NoMan said:

you ever work on a non-union show with no medics? I worked on a show on location once and all the "medics" were strippers from a local strip club who were hired because they were cheap, they thought it would be fun to work on a movie!

 All hilariously  funny and jokes galore until that dude cut his arm off with a saw....

I never worked non-union but now i might have to...lol

[Bosco685]

 

[fantastic_four]

I don't fully understand the AI rules yet.  I knew they'd never be able to exclude it entirely like they were trying to do, but I still can't tell if a producer of a formulaic show working with ChatGPT can still get around using writers somehow.  The minimum number of writers per show seems to guarantee that writers can't be fully cut out in favor of AI--which is generally appropriate for now given how rough AI-written screenplays usually are circa 2023--but I still don't get how they will ever enforce some of those provisions or if there isn't a loophole that lets producers get away with less writers.  That's inevitable and future agreements or extended strikes will reflect that harsh reality, but the studios mostly forgoing AI for the next three years makes some sense.

How would anyone ever enforce studios not using existing screenplays to train AI?  And does it even matter?  There's plenty of content not written by WGA members to feed into any AI training algorithm.

[drotto]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:00 AM, fantastic_four said:

I don't fully understand the AI rules yet.  I knew they'd never be able to exclude it entirely like they were trying to do, but I still can't tell if a producer of a formulaic show working with ChatGPT can still get around using writers somehow.  The minimum number of writers per show seems to guarantee that writers can't be fully cut out in favor of AI--which is generally appropriate for now given how rough AI-written screenplays usually are circa 2023--but I still don't get how they will ever enforce some of those provisions or if there isn't a loophole that lets producers get away with less writers.  That's inevitable and future agreements or extended strikes will reflect that harsh reality, but the studios mostly forgoing AI for the next three years makes some sense.

How would anyone ever enforce studios not using existing screenplays to train AI?  And does it even matter?  There's plenty of content not written by WGA members to feed into any AI training algorithm.

Not saying I follow the AI rules 100% either, but it does seem to follow a recent court decision. That decision ruled that an AI, and therefor AI generated content, can not hold a copyright.  It seems that would make it very hard for companies to use 100% AI created material, if they can not claim copyright on that material. It must therefor have human involvement to insure that the IP remains protected.  The language in this contract is, for now, in the best interest of the studios also.

[fantastic_four]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:50 AM, drotto said:

Not saying I follow the AI rules 100% either, but it does seem to follow a recent court decision. That decision ruled that an AI, and therefor AI generated content, can not hold a copyright.  It seems that would make it very hard for companies to use 100% AI created material, if they can not claim copyright on that material. It must therefor have human involvement to insure that the IP remains protected.  The language in this contract is, for now, in the best interest of the studios also.

Nothing prevents a human--which in the Hollywood context means an executive or a producer--from taking 100% of the content from ChatGPT and just copyrighting it themselves though.

Many of the most popular network television shows have always been formulaic.  I can see a LOT of shows intended for less-demanding audiences being almost entirely AI generated in its current state.  Surely showrunners will be trying the heck out of that in the near future if they aren't already.  Does this new contract prevent it?  Maybe, can't tell yet.