The Rise of Marvel Card Art 1 1

[comix4fun]

On 6/8/2023 at 3:33 PM, KingOfRulers said:

Interesting that folks regard this piece so highly. In large part, it must depend upon the sets you were into and collecting. Even as a hardcore card art collector who grew up during that time, I had no idea about the love for this piece. For me, it doesn't mean much of anything. I have no real desire to own it, beyond the fact that it is a "nifty" piece from my era. I'd be in for $1,500 on it, I suppose. If I was collecting the set at the time, I'd probably value it more highly today. I think I had a few random cards from this set, with the top left of this piece being among them. But outside of the few random cards I had from the set, it wasn't a set that I actively collected or was into. And Bagley as an artist, doesn't mean much to me either. I don't hate his work, but I'm not a fan either. No desire to seek out any Bagley art whether card art or otherwise for my collection.

For some reason I thought you were younger than me. 
When this set came out I was also starting to collect original artwork. I was in my early 20's. And I was still buying and selling at local conventions. I sold through cases of the Fleer '94 Spider-Man cards. It was still pre-crash and sets and boxes were coming out like crazy across publishers. This one stuck out for not disappearing instantly. 

Bagley's in the Spider-man artist hall of fame now, no one's had a longer run on a Spidey title. 

[KingOfRulers]

On 6/8/2023 at 4:47 PM, comix4fun said:

For some reason I thought you were younger than me. 
When this set came out I was also starting to collect original artwork. I was in my early 20's. And I was still buying and selling at local conventions. I sold through cases of the Fleer '94 Spider-Man cards. It was still pre-crash and sets and boxes were coming out like crazy across publishers. This one stuck out for not disappearing instantly. 

Bagley's in the Spider-man artist hall of fame now, no one's had a longer run on a Spidey title. 

I was 7 years old in 1994. I started collecting at 5. The 1990 Impel set, 1992 and1993 Marvel Masterpieces, 1993 Skybox, 1994 X-Men Fleer Ultra, and 1995 Spider-Man Fleer Ultra were my main sets I was getting as a kid.

Yes, I certainly know Bagley's overall reputation as being the Spidey artist of the period. I'd never seen one of these Bagley card sheets at auction before, so I had no idea that they were commanding $35k. I can only recall ever seeing one other card sheet on the auction block in 10 years of buying. It was a few years ago on Clink; it was the galactic sheet (Brood, Skrulls, Shi'ar, Kree etc) from the 1993 Skybox set.

Edited June 8, 2023 by KingOfRulers

[comix4fun]

On 6/8/2023 at 3:57 PM, KingOfRulers said:

I was 7 years old in 1994. I started collecting at 5. The 1990 Impel set, 1992 and1993 Marvel Masterpieces, 1993 Skybox, 1994 X-Men Fleer Ultra, and 1995 Spider-Man Fleer Ultra were my main sets I was getting as a kid.

Yes, I certainly know Bagley's overall reputation as being the Spidey artist of the period. I'd never seen one of these Bagley card sheets at auction before, so I had no idea that they were commanding $35k. I can only recall ever seeing one other card sheet on the auction block in 10 years of buying. It was a few years ago on Clink; it was the galactic sheet (Brood, Skrulls, Shi'ar, Kree etc) from the 1993 Skybox set.

That probably explains the perception difference. Coming at the series well after it was released probably gives us different memories of the time period. 

In today's art market it doesn't take much to get to a number that feels nutty. The Bagley art market is mature enough that seeing a piece that large (168% of a standard 11x17 piece) that was part of a big card series...well....we've seen less go for more. 

[Fischb1]

On 6/8/2023 at 5:20 PM, comix4fun said:

That probably explains the perception difference. Coming at the series well after it was released probably gives us different memories of the time period. 

In today's art market it doesn't take much to get to a number that feels nutty. The Bagley art market is mature enough that seeing a piece that large (168% of a standard 11x17 piece) that was part of a big card series...well....we've seen less go for more. 

Wait. In all seriousness, how did you come up with a price for a "standard" 11x17 piece? How would one even begin to figure that out?

[comix4fun]

On 6/8/2023 at 4:28 PM, Fischb1 said:

Wait. In all seriousness, how did you come up with a price for a "standard" 11x17 piece? How would one even begin to figure that out?

The piece we're talking about is 15x21.... 315 square inches

A standard piece of modern OA is on an 11x17 board.....187 inches. 

It wasn't a price comparison, just a size one.
A dramatically larger format piece (like in the comparison is like quality 1966 vs 1969 Marvel OA pieces) gives a buyer more reasons to talk themselves into feeling good about their bids. 

[Fischb1]

On 6/8/2023 at 5:31 PM, comix4fun said:

The piece we're talking about is 15x21.... 315 square inches

A standard piece of modern OA is on an 11x17 board.....187 inches. 

It wasn't a price comparison, just a size one.
A dramatically larger format piece (like in the comparison is like quality 1966 vs 1969 Marvel OA pieces) gives a buyer more reasons to talk themselves into feeling good about their bids. 

Ah.

Thanks for clarifying. 

[John E.]

That's a nice card art piece by Marc Sasso. Black costume Spider-Man in a beloved storyline. There'd likely be more interest in that today which means it's certainly worth a lot more. I remember when it was auctioned. But is that from the '94 Fleer set? To me, the gold standard is the '90 Impel Marvel and the '92 Marvel Masterpieces, both groundbreakers. Coming in at 2nd and 3rd are '91 Impel and '93 MM, respectively, and that's because you still had the young guns like Erik Larsen working at Marvel pre-Image. (Larsen's Impel series II Venom sold on HA for under $1k, so I'll give you that. If only I could go back.) The Hildebrandts' set comes in at a distant 4th, imo, and that's only because painted pieces command higher prices, but to me--nostalgia aside--I thought they were a one-trick pony the way people think Alex Ross is. 

I think art outside of those "gold standard" sets card art from other sets were more affordable pre-pandemic. It's like a so-so page from "Issue #1" is going to command a higher price than a so-so page from issue #26, all things equal. Granted all art goes on the rise, so it's not just Marvel card art that is on an uptick. For most of original comic art history, if given a choice between a published page and card art by the same artist on the same subject, the card art would be the least desirable. Likely it had the least eyeballs on it and it's not canon. I also purchased packs from the same sets you did as a kid, but I never completed a set. Now that I have put together the Impel '90 set, I still have stronger nostalgia to my original cards than the cards I got later in adulthood. I guess the point I'm trying to get to is that as modestly-budgeted collectors get priced out of one area, they move on to the next best thing (there's that troublesome phrase again) which then drives up those prices fast. I think that's what happened to Erik Larsen and Bagley when the McSpidey stuff got out of hand.

I think it was with the '92 Marvel set that the quality of the cards went downhill (Is that when Skybox took over?) Personally, I don't consider the set in which the Bagley-art-in-question as a prime card set, and in theory, should be worth less. But that set is peak Mark Bagley, the Spider-Man artist of the 90s because of his extended run. His good Spidey art is already into the 5-figures and the floor on his okay/decent pages in his ASM run is 2k. As Chris C. has already pointed out: for it's size, for being drawn at the maturation of Bagley's skills, that you get 9 cards in one board and it's all Spider-verse, I think we are going to look at 35K as cheap 5 years from now. I think this one has room to grow.

And because tone can be misconstrued here, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying be disparaging. Just passionately writing about a niche I care about. If your card art is posted on CAF I'd love to see it. 

[Brian Peck]

My one pieces of Marvel Card art is Jean and Scott Wedding 3 card set by Bob Larkin. The cards were bout into X-Men #30 comic book. 

It was at SDCC about 20 years ago I discovered the original painting by Bob while wondering the isles on the hall floor. A dealer from Europe had a variety of books, toys, art and other misc stuff. He had two Bob Larkin X-Men card art paintings, I bought the Jean and Scott Wedding painting and the other had Professor X and some of the X-Men.

To this day I always check out each isle and dealer at SDCC just in case they have some random pieces of artwork.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Brian Peck

[KingOfRulers]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:00 PM, John E. said:

That's a nice card art piece by Marc Sasso. Black costume Spider-Man in a beloved storyline. There'd likely be more interest in that today which means it's certainly worth a lot more. I remember when it was auctioned. But is that from the '94 Fleer set? To me, the gold standard is the '90 Impel Marvel and the '92 Marvel Masterpieces, both groundbreakers. Coming in at 2nd and 3rd are '91 Impel and '93 MM, respectively, and that's because you still had the young guns like Erik Larsen working at Marvel pre-Image. (Larsen's Impel series II Venom sold on HA for under $1k, so I'll give you that. If only I could go back.) The Hildebrandts' set comes in at a distant 4th, imo, and that's only because painted pieces command higher prices, but to me--nostalgia aside--I thought they were a one-trick pony the way people think Alex Ross is. 

I think art outside of those "gold standard" sets card art from other sets were more affordable pre-pandemic. It's like a so-so page from "Issue #1" is going to command a higher price than a so-so page from issue #26, all things equal. Granted all art goes on the rise, so it's not just Marvel card art that is on an uptick. For most of original comic art history, if given a choice between a published page and card art by the same artist on the same subject, the card art would be the least desirable. Likely it had the least eyeballs on it and it's not canon. I also purchased packs from the same sets you did as a kid, but I never completed a set. Now that I have put together the Impel '90 set, I still have stronger nostalgia to my original cards than the cards I got later in adulthood. I guess the point I'm trying to get to is that as modestly-budgeted collectors get priced out of one area, they move on to the next best thing (there's that troublesome phrase again) which then drives up those prices fast. I think that's what happened to Erik Larsen and Bagley when the McSpidey stuff got out of hand.

I think it was with the '92 Marvel set that the quality of the cards went downhill (Is that when Skybox took over?) Personally, I don't consider the set in which the Bagley-art-in-question as a prime card set, and in theory, should be worth less. But that set is peak Mark Bagley, the Spider-Man artist of the 90s because of his extended run. His good Spidey art is already into the 5-figures and the floor on his okay/decent pages in his ASM run is 2k. As Chris C. has already pointed out: for it's size, for being drawn at the maturation of Bagley's skills, that you get 9 cards in one board and it's all Spider-verse, I think we are going to look at 35K as cheap 5 years from now. I think this one has room to grow.

And because tone can be misconstrued here, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying be disparaging. Just passionately writing about a niche I care about. If your card art is posted on CAF I'd love to see it. 

Thank you! Here's a smattering of some of the pieces in my collection.

1993 MM is by far my favorite of them all. I know I'm in the minority there. I see the variety of artists as a major plus.

Edited June 9, 2023 by KingOfRulers

[Unstoppablejayd]

My one Card - not a marvel masterpiece but a jusko and I’m very happy to have it:

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1788967

[KingOfRulers]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:08 PM, Brian Peck said:

My one pieces of Marvel Card art is Jean and Scott Wedding 3 card set by Bob Larkin. The cards were bout into X-Men #30 comic book. 

It was at SDCC about 20 years ago I discovered the original painting by Bob while wondering the isles on the hall floor. A dealer from Europe had a variety of books, toys, art and other misc stuff. He had two Bob Larkin X-Men card art paintings, I bought the Jean and Scott Wedding painting and the other had Professor X and some of the X-Men.

To this day I always check out each isle and dealer at SDCC just in case they have some random pieces of artwork.

 

 

 

 

Really great piece! 

[KingOfRulers]

On 6/8/2023 at 8:17 PM, Unstoppablejayd said:

My one Card - not a marvel masterpiece but a jusko and I’m very happy to have it:

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1788967

Fantastic! A great piece to have in your collection.

[Benedict Judas Hel]

On 6/8/2023 at 3:38 PM, Fischb1 said:

And I don't really like pizza.

[John E.]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:10 PM, KingOfRulers said:

Thank you! Here's a smattering of some of the pieces in my collection.

1993 MM is by far my favorite of them all. I know I'm in the minority there. I see the variety of artists as a major plus.

I’ve always been in love with that Spider-Woman by…Tristan? You are lucky to own it. The Sinkiewicz Hulk, Lago Doc Strange, and the Joe Phillips Havok are very, very nostalgic. Again, you’re lucky to have them. They are in very nice frames. 
 

I forget how easy it is to find galleries on CAF so I checked out what you have a few hours ago. You have a very nice collection. I’m actually a personal fan of MM ‘93 for the same reasons you are, but “issue #1” is (almost) always more coveted than “issue #2.” I don’t make the rules. Around 2018 I made an impulse buy and got a sealed box of ‘92 MM for $50 at a collectibles show. I always tell myself I’ll sell it to buy art but I don’t seem to want to let it go. 
 

I remember when most of your card art was up for auction. I do think you got some good deals. “Good eye for good buys.” Essentially you found a niche and now you’re getting priced out of your niche. You’ll then move on another affordable niche before you get priced out of that one. Mark my words dealers are reading this thread who will then go after 90s card art at auction and quadruple the prices on their sites. It’s what they’ve done to 90s art today. The same art they poo-poo’d on for the last 30 years. 

[KingOfRulers]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:26 PM, John E. said:

I’ve always been in love with that Spider-Woman by…Tristan? You are lucky to own it. The Sinkiewicz Hulk, Lago Doc Strange, and the Joe Phillips Havok are very, very nostalgic. Again, you’re lucky to have them. They are in very nice frames. 
 

I forget how easy it is to find galleries on CAF so I checked out what you have a few hours ago. You have a very nice collection. I’m actually a personal fan of MM ‘93 for the same reasons you are, but “issue #1” is (almost) always more coveted than “issue #2.” I don’t make the rules. Around 2018 I made an impulse buy and got a sealed box of ‘92 MM for $50 at a collectibles show. I always tell myself I’ll sell it to buy art but I don’t seem to want to let it go. 
 

I remember when most of your card art was up for auction. I do think you got some good deals. “Good eye for good buys.” Essentially you found a niche and now you’re getting priced out of your niche. You’ll then move on another affordable niche before you get priced out of that one. Mark my words dealers are reading this thread who will then go after 90s card art at auction and quadruple the prices on their sites. It’s what they’ve done to 90s art today. The same art they poo-poo’d on for the last 30 years. 

Thank you so much for the kind words. Yes, Tristan Schane! I wanted that piece so badly. I was so excited when I managed to find it. We were talking about price; that Schane and Sienkiewicz pieces are the only card art pieces in the entire collection that cost $1,000 or more ($1,650 and $1,500) I'd say that the Lago Dr. Strange is my single favorite piece of the collection.

It's cool to have a sealed box. That's a great relic to have from the period, and would display nice in any comic room. I believe that's the Jusko Spidey 2099 art, correct? How about your collection; do you have any original pieces from any of the Marvel card sets?

I've got the other half of the collection being framed at this very moment. But I'm looking forward to having back later this month. I've only recently embarked on framing the collection. It has been a lot of fun picking out the frames and mats. Here are the other two pieces that I currently have hanging, both newly framed:

 

[Mephisto]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:04 AM, KingOfRulers said:

As a kid in the 1990's, I grew up during the 90's comic boom. The Marvel Masterpieces, Fleer Ultra, and Skybox card sets went hand-in-hand with that greater comic boom of the time. Having loved the various card sets when I was a kid, as an adult I got into collecting the original artworks to the cards. I've built up a nice collection over the last 10-15 years. For most of those years, until recently, the original art pieces to Marvel card art seemed like a hidden niche within the comic OA world. I was able to participate within that niche at a very low cost...but I'm officially declaring that it is no longer possible!

 

 

There were a few new buyers that popped up the last few years but there is one specific buyer that if you have paintings from the right set will pay EXTREMELY strong prices especially if it's the right character. With that buyer dropping 69K and 70K each on 1996 Marvel Masterpieces paintings the lesser pieces wind up rising with the tide. A lot of the artists still had their card art 20+ years later but people never bothered to ask and that included Julie and Boris. 

[KingOfRulers]

On 6/12/2023 at 1:18 PM, Mephisto said:

There were a few new buyers that popped up the last few years but there is one specific buyer that if you have paintings from the right set will pay EXTREMELY strong prices especially if it's the right character. With that buyer dropping 69K and 70K each on 1996 Marvel Masterpieces paintings the lesser pieces wind up rising with the tide. A lot of the artists still had their card art 20+ years later but people never bothered to ask and that included Julie and Boris. 

Yep, some years ago there were still a lot of pieces still with the original artists. I regret not buying the Hobgoblin piece that Julie did for the 1995 Spider-Man Fleer set when I had the chance.  I owned and operated comic conventions starting in 2010. For that career, I spent hundreds of hours tracking down the contact info for artists to invite to the conventions. Fortunately, some of that produced some great pieces for my collection. I have the Ezra Tucker Archangel piece (as seen above) and the Bishop piece from the X-Men Fleer Ultra set. Those were the first card art pieces I purchased. That was in 2014. I think I paid Ezra about $150 or $200 each for them. And the Carnage piece I got straight from the great Dave DeVries (such a nice guy). I believe that was $900. Also got the Venom/Morbius piece from Spider-Man Fleer Ultra straight from Tom Kyfinn.

[Garf]

On 6/8/2023 at 2:04 PM, KingOfRulers said:

As a kid in the 1990's, I grew up during the 90's comic boom. The Marvel Masterpieces, Fleer Ultra, and Skybox card sets went hand-in-hand with that greater comic boom of the time. Having loved the various card sets when I was a kid, as an adult I got into collecting the original artworks to the cards. I've built up a nice collection over the last 10-15 years. For most of those years, until recently, the original art pieces to Marvel card art seemed like a hidden niche within the comic OA world. I was able to participate within that niche at a very low cost...but I'm officially declaring that it is no longer possible!

I was watching two card art pieces whose auctions both ended last night. One on Heritage and one on ComicLink. The below results illustrate how Marvel card art has skyrocketed. In general, it wasn't long ago that your typical card art piece (such as Drax, below) could've been had for $200-$500. $1,000 for a card art piece was expensive. There were some exceptions, such as the Jusko 1992 pieces as those rarely come to market, as well as pieces from specific legendary artists such as Jim Lee, Steranko, Romita Sr., and Julie Bell. But in general, your run of the mill card art from most artists could be had for under $1,000, very easily. Even pieces from some greats such as the Hildebrandts and Sienkiewicz could be had for under $1k, not long ago.

Drax from Marvel Masterpieces 1993 by Lou Harrison went for $3,840. Well over $4k, with tax and HA's shipping. In my opinion, it's pretty bad in terms of art quality. I still wanted to own it because I'm a sucker for nasty card art that I'm nostalgic for.  I would've gone to $1,000.

 

Art Adams 5.5" x 6.5" went for $8,100. Absolutely stunning. I know Art Adams is beloved, but it's a fairly small piece and to command that price boggles my mind. I probably would've gone $1,750 or so on it.

 

 

Well for the $200 - $500 fix there is still some modern TCG art. 

The current generation will have whatever Marvel Snap cards were not done digitally, and haven't already been... snapped up 

https://marvelsnapzone.com/cards/released/

https://marvelsnapzone.com/variants/ 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Garf

[John E.]

On 6/13/2023 at 8:46 AM, Garf said:

Well for the $200 - $500 fix there is still some modern TCG art. 

The current generation will have whatever Marvel Snap cards were not done digitally, and haven't already been... snapped up 

https://marvelsnapzone.com/variants/ 

I clicked on the link and I was so boggled by what I was looking at that I went ahead and financed a plot of dirt and a tombstone because I’m that much closer to dying of old age. 

[Garf]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:14 PM, John E. said:

I clicked on the link and I was so boggled by what I was looking at that I went ahead and financed a plot of dirt and a tombstone because I’m that much closer to dying of old age. 

https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/MARVEL SNAP

... but I was looking forward to your long and illustrious streaming career.