Superhero movies and OA values 2 2

[KirbyCollector]

With the Flash movie upon us, was thinking about all the hype over the last 21 years (I'm dating from Spider-Man in 2002) from sellers who told us art featuring this character or that one was going to go significantly up in value once the movie with the character was released. How many times was this true? I think Iron Man, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, GoTG, and Thanos are a solid yes... Spider-Man and the X-Men maybe, but both had huge OA fan bases before the movies... who am I missing? Deadpool? I see Miles Morales art is on fire right now, but I chalk that up to scarcity more than anything. I struggle to see any DC character whose art value benefited (Joker? Ra's Al Ghul? Catwoman?). I can think of far more characters whose art was hyped but whose values didn't go anywhere, with a lot of recent examples such as the New Mutants, Adam Warlock, Shazam, Black Adam, Hawkman, Dr. Fate, etc. 

[Ecclectica]

On 6/21/2023 at 1:50 PM, KirbyCollector said:

With the Flash movie upon us, was thinking about all the hype over the last 21 years (I'm dating from Spider-Man in 2002) from sellers who told us art featuring this character or that one was going to go significantly up in value once the movie with the character was released. How many times was this true? I think Iron Man, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, GoTG, and Thanos are a solid yes... Spider-Man and the X-Men maybe, but both had huge OA fan bases before the movies... who am I missing? Deadpool? I see Miles Morales art is on fire right now, but I chalk that up to scarcity more than anything. I struggle to see any DC character whose art value benefited (Joker? Ra's Al Ghul? Catwoman?). I can think of far more characters whose art was hyped but whose values didn't go anywhere, with a lot of recent examples such as the New Mutants, Adam Warlock, Shazam, Black Adam, Hawkman, Dr. Fate, etc. 

If the movie (the Flash movie here and, sadly, many DC movies... Don't talk to me about Black Adam...) is not good, I doubt value can increase...

And : is it me or the value of Flash original art, at the contrary, is decreasing ?

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecclectica

[Ecclectica]

On 6/21/2023 at 1:50 PM, KirbyCollector said:

With the Flash movie upon us, was thinking about all the hype over the last 21 years (I'm dating from Spider-Man in 2002) from sellers who told us art featuring this character or that one was going to go significantly up in value once the movie with the character was released. How many times was this true? I think Iron Man, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, GoTG, and Thanos are a solid yes... Spider-Man and the X-Men maybe, but both had huge OA fan bases before the movies... who am I missing? Deadpool? I see Miles Morales art is on fire right now, but I chalk that up to scarcity more than anything. I struggle to see any DC character whose art value benefited (Joker? Ra's Al Ghul? Catwoman?). I can think of far more characters whose art was hyped but whose values didn't go anywhere, with a lot of recent examples such as the New Mutants, Adam Warlock, Shazam, Black Adam, Hawkman, Dr. Fate, etc. 

And : I don't think the way Adam Warlock was depicted in the last GoTG movie will encourage people to buy Adam Warlock art... We, comic fans, know the quality of the character, but the movie make him look like a real turkey to people outside the comic world...

(in the move, I guess we can say goodbye to movie adaptations of his best stories...)

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecclectica

[Ecclectica]

On 6/21/2023 at 2:01 PM, Ecclectica said:

If the movie (the Flash movie here and, sadly, many DC movies... Don't talk to me about Black Adam...) is not good, I doubt value can increase...

And : is it me or the value of Flash original art, at the contrary, is decreasing ?

And we have not seen what will be left of "Born again" next year. I'm not optimistic hearing what I'm hearing... -> "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", anybody ?

End of off-topic lines.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecclectica

[KingOfRulers]

I think for the comic books and art featuring a given character that has made his or her way onto the silver screen or TV, the character needs to become an instantly recognizable piece of pop-culture. Yes, that means the success of the specific movie or show in which they're featured, but I think for true appreciation in value it goes beyond that. Over the last couple of decades we've seen plenty of instances where first appearances of characters shoot up in value in the months or years prior to their on-screen debut, only to tank in value once the movie or show is actually released. I see that as speculative value. To gain true, longterm value and staying power, I think the characters need to become ingrained within society's consciousness.

A good example of this is Thanos. He was fairly well known in the world of comics, but the general public was completely unaware of the character before the MCU. Thanos was a popular (within the comic world) recurring villain that had a prominent role in an early 90's storyline. Not different than so many other Marvel villains over the decades. The character was given a fantastic "slow burn" treatment in the MCU. Several years of build up, foreshadowing, and after-credit teasing before we actually got the character on-screen in a significant way. After all that waiting, once we actually got the character, we received some great character development. He wasn't just a villain thrown in for the purpose of a slugging match, only to be forgotten by the audience once they leave the theater. I think it's this sort of situation that builds true value in the character's original art pieces.

While not as ubiquitous as Spider-Man, I'd now consider Thanos a household name. The general public know the character. Thanos went from unknown to known by general public. No easy feat. Primetime/Golden Age Thanos pages now go for a fortune. That is, George Perez and Ron Lim Infinity Gauntlet pages featuring Thanos, and early 90's Silver Surfer pages featuring Thanos.

[Bronty]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:19 AM, KingOfRulers said:

I think for the comic books and art featuring a given character that has made his or her way onto the silver screen or TV, the character needs to become an instantly recognizable piece of pop-culture. Yes, that means the success of the specific movie or show in which they're featured, but I think for true appreciation in value it goes beyond that. Over the last couple of decades we've seen plenty of instances where first appearances of characters shoot up in value in the months or years prior to their on-screen debut, only to tank in value once the movie or show is actually released. I see that as speculative value. To gain true, longterm value and staying power, I think the characters need to become ingrained within society's consciousness.

A good example of this is Thanos. He was fairly well known in the world of comics, but the general public was completely unaware of the character before the MCU. Thanos was a popular (within the comic world) recurring villain that had a prominent role in an early 90's storyline. Not different than so many other Marvel villains over the decades. The character was given a fantastic "slow burn" treatment in the MCU. Several years of build up, foreshadowing, and after-credit teasing before we actually got the character on-screen in a significant way. After all that waiting, once we actually got the character, we received some great character development. He wasn't just a villain thrown in for the purpose of a slugging match, only to be forgotten by the audience once they leave the theater. I think it's this sort of situation that builds true value in the character's original art pieces.

While not as ubiquitous as Spider-Man, I'd now consider Thanos a household name. The general public know the character. Thanos went from unknown to known by general public. No easy feat. Primetime/Golden Age Thanos pages now go for a fortune. That is, George Perez and Ron Lim Infinity Gauntlet pages featuring Thanos, and early 90's Silver Surfer pages featuring Thanos.

Good post!   Well thought out.

[Garf]

On 6/21/2023 at 2:59 PM, Bronty said:

Good post!   Well thought out.

You stole my reply 

Thanos is a really good example. He had a lot of iconic moments in those films too which stand alone as pop culture references too. The ones translated directly from the comics like the Thanos "snap", which are already grail pages, will just elevate everything else close to them. I am guessing that the amount it goes up depends on if we are looking at increased value amongst the same collectors, increased speculation or... or new collectors coming in 

The path that the money takes to get to this end of the hobby when something has a buzz around it doesn't feel like it should be TV and Film alone. We have seen the occasional unicorn appear out of nowhere after screen releases, but it's not the norm. I would still think that something like ... comic fan > comics > films / tv / > return to comics > omnibus collection / key comics > conventions / social media exposure to original art content ... would be a more natural fit over time. Speculation and FOMO (let's face it there isn't always enough to go around) might still be what is fuelling things.

 

[jjonahjameson11]

On 6/21/2023 at 7:50 AM, KirbyCollector said:

With the Flash movie upon us, was thinking about all the hype over the last 21 years (I'm dating from Spider-Man in 2002) from sellers who told us art featuring this character or that one was going to go significantly up in value once the movie with the character was released. How many times was this true? I think Iron Man, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, GoTG, and Thanos are a solid yes... Spider-Man and the X-Men maybe, but both had huge OA fan bases before the movies... who am I missing? Deadpool? I see Miles Morales art is on fire right now, but I chalk that up to scarcity more than anything. I struggle to see any DC character whose art value benefited (Joker? Ra's Al Ghul? Catwoman?). I can think of far more characters whose art was hyped but whose values didn't go anywhere, with a lot of recent examples such as the New Mutants, Adam Warlock, Shazam, Black Adam, Hawkman, Dr. Fate, etc. 

prices for Warlock art already shot up well before his appearance in GotG.

Suicide Squad pages (original series) spiked prior to the 1st movie, but have remained relatively flat since then.

New Mutants OA prices (Sienk) experienced huge spikes prior to the Legion series and seem to maintain their prices.

haven’t followed Sienk MK prices since the series aired, but they too had a massive run up prior to launch

[Michael Browning]

Want to know why Atari Force art is on the rise? No chance DC will ever do a movie of it. ;)

[Michael Browning]

On 6/21/2023 at 1:12 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

prices for Warlock art already shot up well before his appearance in GotG.

Suicide Squad pages (original series) spiked prior to the 1st movie, but have remained relatively flat since then.

New Mutants OA prices (Sienk) experienced huge spikes prior to the Legion series and seem to maintain their prices.

haven’t followed Sienk MK prices since the series aired, but they too had a massive run up prior to launch

Warlock art has been rising steadily for 20 years. Believe me, I bought my first Starlin Warlock art way back 25 years ago for $800 and it's now probably a $25,000 piece.

Suicide Squad pages from the original series still have a solid following and sell fairly high when they pop up. Basic pages still sell very high and covers rarely come up for sale much anymore.

All New Mutants and Moon Knight art is hot, no matter the artist, with Sienkiewicz being the hottest for those two series.

[Dirtcheap31]

I continue to believe Harley Quinn has been undervalued for a long time her first continuity pages have been under valued for a long time to only recently be givin some love… I think with lady Gaga playing her will add even more depth to that character… 

[KirbyCollector]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:24 PM, Michael Browning said:

All New Mutants and Moon Knight art is hot, no matter the artist, with Sienkiewicz being the hottest for those two series.

The MK TV show helped boost the character's profile and may have added value, but the NM movie didn't add a dollar. It could of, had it been treated right... what a waste of some great characters. Sometimes I think Marvel/DC should have just stuck to animation... the Challenge of the Superfriends cartoon had more reverence for the IP than some of the movies these days. 

[John E.]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:53 AM, KirbyCollector said:

The MK TV show helped boost the character's profile and may have added value, but the NM movie didn't add a dollar. It could of, had it been treated right...

I’m interpreting what I have in bold as New Mutants OA doesn’t need a movie to boost its value because fans of the original series continue to push the value to the atmosphere, or that prices are already so high they can’t grow at a faster rate. 
 

It’s hard to find a deal on any of the first 100 issues of the original series. 

If asked, I’d say Sienkiewicz and Platt Moon Knight art was doing just fine on its own without Hollywood.

I wish I could prove that movies and television don’t affect art prices—but rather the storyline, character, artist, and nostalgia/the Rule of 25 are the real influence—but I cannot. Tom Cruise sells Ray Bans. James Bond sells Aston Martins. Marvel Studios sells toys and T-shirts. To me, the Marvel movies and series are just half hour to 3-hour ads that remind every collector that they need a Vosburg or Byrne She-Hulk in their collection, just like a Mentos commercial reminds me to carry mints in my car. So up goes the good She-Hulk art. I don’t give two chits about Cosmic Marvel but I enjoy the  h e l l  out of the movies. I still didn’t run out and read the comics nor did I buy Thanos art, but I do buy the Marvel Legends figures of my favorite screen version of the characters (No Thanos though). I will admit that it was the GOTG film(s) that introduced me to all those lovable characters but I have no desire to own any of them on paper. Except for Rocket Raccoon, but it would have to a page from the Mignola series. So maybe the movies have an influence on me to buy a RR page (I haven’t), but era and artist are the real driving factor in my choice(s) of art purchases…er, preferences…since prices are a factor.

[Michael Browning]

I don’t put a lot of stock in movies and TV shows pushing art too much higher. I mean, it’s already higher than most comic collectors can afford. I think it gives a quick bump sometimes and it most affects the art that features first appearances when those characters are set to be in TV shows and movies. I don’t think those shows have much of a lasting effect on art prices, though.

Take a look at Watchmen art and how people went crazy paying huge amounts for that art when the movie came out. The values on basic are finally catching up with what some people paid. 

I will say that DC movies cause some art to drop in value, with Jonah Hex being the best example that I know of. I don’t think the Black Adam and Shazam! movies helped the values of those characters’ art at all and may have actually hurt values similar to what the Jonah Hex movie did.

[comix4fun]

On 6/21/2023 at 7:31 AM, Ecclectica said:

And we have not seen what will be left of "Born again" next year. I'm not optimistic hearing what I'm hearing... -> "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", anybody ?

End of off-topic lines.

I think if it's a "mature" sector of the OA market films don't have much impact as the appreciation and adoration has already been factored into pricing and auction results. 
Born Again artwork is already highly treasured and for good reason, I doubt any negative reaction to the screen version will negate that. 

And LOEG, well, that work has always been a treasure and values and demand have only increased since the film, in spite of the film.....pretending that film doesn't exist.  

So, I think it really depends on how established and entrenched the sector/character/arc already is as to how much +/- impact a film or show can have.