Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1964) The Slow Build 6 6

[shadroch]

On 9/27/2023 at 6:12 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

I believe he had a home somewhere in New Jersey--closer to Philadelphia than New York.

He lived in Monmouth County, along the South Jersey Shore. Strangely, the town he lived in, New Shrewsbury, no longer exists.  I assume it was absorbed into a neighboring town but I couldn't locate its exact location in the three minutes I dedicated to looking for it.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:16 AM, Prince Namor said:

Not sure if you saw this... Wally Wood's 1964 sketch for Daredevil's red suit redesign went for $5,520 on Heritage just recently. Now there's a piece of comic book history!

The note at the bottom is interesting--Peter David would work this idea into the Death of Jean DeWolff storyline in the mid-80s.

[N e r V]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:07 AM, Prince Namor said:

Well... Stan Lee did... for the last 20 years of his life, his position (and one he spoke under oath in a court of law) became, "I created it all, and then assigned an artist."

I wasn’t counting the involved parties.

[N e r V]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:58 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Didn't Alex Schomburg burn all of his original art and comics in his backyard at one point, in a fit of rage? Something to do with being ripped-off on the rights for the Human Torch.

Well if I was going to destroy my Human Torch art I would definitely burn it.

[N e r V]

On 9/27/2023 at 6:30 AM, shadroch said:

He lived in Monmouth County, along the South Jersey Shore. Strangely, the town he lived in, New Shrewsbury, no longer exists.  I assume it was absorbed into a neighboring town but I couldn't locate its exact location in the three minutes I dedicated to looking for it.

I’m pretty sure I saw that happen in a Outer Limits episode…

 

[N e r V]

For a dead man Joe Maneely got decent play by Marvel in the 1970’s with a dozen covers reprinted between 1969-1974 (mostly western). Not sure how many of his stories (western and horror, etc.) were reprinted in Marvels book but like Bill Everett one advantage he had was he signed his stories. A lot of artists I had to research who they were years later but those two were always obvious.

 

 

 

[N e r V]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:19 AM, Prince Namor said:

People ask, "What would've it been like if Joe Maneely would have lived?"

Well... even when he was alive Marvel was faltering. The question is asked as a way for Stan (before his death) to approach the subject from the perspective that he and he alone created the Marvel Universe. Which of course, is nonsense. 

Most likely, if Maneely had lived, he would've been another John Severin. Kirby would've still showed up, because Marvel was crumbling. They were headed down the same path as so many other publishers (including Mainline) after the Comics Code. A LOT of publisher's folded after those Senate hearings.

No one really brings this up, but in my research, Lee seemed to really be fond of John Severin, and Severin talks highly of Stan as well (though he's not afraid to tell stories that sometimes paint Lee in a not so great light - he always adds, "But he's a good guy. I liked Stan.")

Consider:

Goodman/Lee always saw the covers as the most important thing. It sells the book - which to a publisher is the only thing that counts. You can have the greatest stories ever in your comic, if the cover sucks and it just sits on the newsstand, it doesn't do the publisher any good.

The last year before Atlas' implosion (Sept 1956 to Sept 1957), Severin did 118 pages of interior stories to Maneely's 471... Joe was quite the workhorse - about 40 pages a month - not KIRBY numbers - but well over Severin.

However, Severin did 100 covers for Atlas during this time, including SEVEN #1 issues, compared to Maneely's 60 covers, only TWO of which were #1. We hear so much about Maneely's use by Stan as 'guy', but we don't really hear about Severin, when the numbers show, Stan obviously saw HIM as the go to guy for covers and especially #1 issues.

This clearly comes about because of Lee's admiration of EC Comics (and of course Severin's talent) - Stanley would emulate some of their ideas into Marvel Comics - and he probably figured that pushing Severin's work would help sell books. And yet... glossed over in the discussion mostly.

(Well, maybe not on the Atlas threads or websites... I'd be curious as to how this was seen by the experts on Atlas - let me know if I'm missing something here...)

We seen what John Severin's career was at Marvel in the Silver Age - he wasn't a superhero specialist either, and... THAT is probably more along the same career path we would've seen from Maneely.

Like I said earlier everyone can speculate all you want. Doesn’t mean any of us can remotely get accurate what would’ve have happened unless someone wants to explain their abilities to see into alternate universes.

That said here’s the Mark Evanier piece I quoted which I also don’t believe as remotely factual as to what would have happened but he’s a intelligent man  and knows more about Kirby and his family than countless wannabes out there so it was at least fun to see his take which probably at least stuck to the facts of the time vs the usual fancy guesses of what people wanted to have happened.

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - Written in the Sensational Style by: Stan Lee   Drawn in the Marvelous Manner by Dick Ayers  Lettered by Art Simek

One of Stan's dumbest villains returns in the Human Torch story - Doctor Strange gets his best and biggest cover blurb yet - 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - Written by: Stan Lee, King of Suspense   Drawn by Steve Ditko, Master of the Macabre  Lettered by Art Simek, Prince of the Lettering Pen

One of Stan's dumbest villains returns in the Human Torch story - Doctor Strange gets his best and biggest cover blurb yet - 

[Dr. Haydn]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:39 PM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - Written by: Stan Lee, King of Suspense   Drawn by Steve Ditko, Master of the Macabre  Lettered by Art Simek, Prince of the Lettering Pen

 

 

Panel 5: Stan got his characters mixed up again!

[shadroch]

If Kirby was upset about not getting proper credit, why did he stay at a company that paid such low rates?  Why was The King Of Comics working for a fourth-rate company?

[jimjum12]

On 9/27/2023 at 4:39 PM, shadroch said:

If Kirby was upset about not getting proper credit, why did he stay at a company that paid such low rates?  Why was The King Of Comics working for a fourth-rate company?

.... and if he said, Stop The Presses !... here I am to save the day !, why did it take 3 years for the heroes to emerge? If he saved Atlas, why were the sales on his "Godzilla and Harryhausen" books about the same as what was going on before him? GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - This goofy Plantman story might be one of my favorites for how silly and bad it is. Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, helpless from a pail of water! Why didn't Doctor Doom think of that?

Edited September 27, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - Stan has a habit of repeating much of what he 'dialogues', and here again, just like Ant-Man, we see the Human Torch, trapped inside a closet! The Modern Day Shakespeare indeed!

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - I actually laughed out loud at this one. Johnny Storm, who can actually flame on strong enough to fly... subdued by the 'dew' of acorns!! So MOIST... 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - Thor uses a hammer. Conan a sword. Johnny uses WEED KILLER!

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - If I'd have been old enough to read in 1964, this might've made me quit - the threat of this guy showing up again...

Edited September 27, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - He's only the MAIN character in the story...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - The work Ditko is doing on ASM and Dr. Strange is getting better every issue. His story's are good as well, but there's so much better on the way...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #121 - DC Comics just couldn't understand it... the world was ready for new, and creative ways to present sequential story telling, and Ditko had a great style...