Painkiller on Netflix. 4 4

[Nick Furious]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:49 AM, Ariamus said:

If you're making a choice, then Dopesick is my recommendation. Its style makes it feels like a more appropriate telling of the tale.

Agreed.  Painkiller was good but it sacrificed legitimacy for theatrics.  Matthew Broderick was great as the antagonist, but he talked to a ghost in multiple crucial moments of the story.  That made all the intriguing details of the story suspect.  It becomes very questionable which details were historically accurate and which were theatrical license.  

[CAHokie]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:16 PM, CGC Mike said:

I am moving this to the water cooler, as the sub forum in Comics General is for Comics related - Movies, TV, Video games only.  

Are you moving the following movies in there as well or is this a new thing?

Expendables 4

Oppenheimer and the Atom Bomb

Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey part 2 (Not exactly the Pooh we know)

Equalizer 3

Meg 2

Mission Impossible 7 

Lawman 

Winning Time: Magic Johnson

 

[sledgehammer]

it might be a good idea to combine Meg 2, and painkiller, in the same thread.

[sledgehammer]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:58 PM, CAHokie said:

Expendables 4

Is Jessie Ventura in it?

If he is, then I could potentially see Roy taking the conversation to thermites and the intentional conspiratorial take down of the twin towers.

You know, to broaden everyone's mind.

Again, Water Cooler kind of stuff.

Old school, back in the day, Water Cooler kind of stuff.

[CAHokie]

On 9/13/2023 at 8:40 PM, sledgehammer said:

Is Jessie Ventura in it?

If he is, then I could potentially see Roy taking the conversation to thermites and the intentional conspiratorial take down of the twin towers.

You know, to broaden everyone's mind.

Again, Water Cooler kind of stuff.

Old school, back in the day, Water Cooler kind of stuff.

Oh… I see now. The thread was actually moved so Roy couldn’t post in it.  That’s actually a slick move but not entirely honest since the sub-forum has many non-comic related movies in there. Just say this thread has moved beyond the scope of the movie or something.

[CGC Mike]

On 9/13/2023 at 8:47 PM, CAHokie said:

Oh… I see now. The thread was actually moved so Roy couldn’t post in it.  That’s actually a slick move but not entirely honest since the sub-forum has many non-comic related movies in there. Just say this thread has moved beyond the scope of the movie or something.

This is not the reason the thread was moved.  If that was the case, I would move the AI thread out of comics general.  The movie forum is getting too many non comic related topics posted.  I will remove some of them over time. (as I have time).  

[CAHokie]

On 9/13/2023 at 8:52 PM, CGC Mike said:

This is not the reason the thread was moved.  If that was the case, I would move the AI thread out of comics general.  The movie forum is getting too many non comic related topics posted.  I will remove some of them over time. (as I have time).  

I can understand that, but it seems a shame. Its a nice place for all sorts of movies and related topics

[VintageComics]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:15 PM, 500Club said:

As usual, the truth lies in the middle, and the solution is to use a tool responsibly.

It's hard to use a "tool" responsibly when the experts and authorities dispensing the "tool" were corrupt and feeding these overly addictive pills to people who didn't need them and hiding how addictive they were. 

@buttock commented on this many years ago in a now locked thread I had started, and the system quite literally sold the pills as "safe and effective" when in fact they were neither safe nor effective. Now where have we heard the phrase "safe and effective" before? 

On 9/13/2023 at 1:18 PM, 500Club said:

From the medical side, prescribed opioids have lessened in impact compared to the impact street level fentanyl is having, due to its inconsistency and potency.

That's sort of irrelevant because the addicts don't care where they get their opium from. 

If it becomes scarce from pills and more readily available and cheaper from fentanyl or from prescribed opioids that will be the new target. I am an absolute fan of decriminalizing drugs the way it was done in Portugal and Switzerland, it just needs to be done on a federal level so that funding can be curbed from the criminal justice system and into addiction and mental health support the way it was done in those two countries.

Having prescription drugs only available regionally is a recipe for disaster in the same way the West coast is a recipe for disaster for homelessness. People are drawn to the warm weather in much greater numbers to sleep in the streets than in cold weather out east. 

Having only regional distribution just makes those places distribution hubs and draws people from all over the country to the Wizard of Oz.

On 9/13/2023 at 9:54 AM, namisgr said:

But since 2019, the distribution of opioid pills has markedly declined, and overdose deaths from them have begun to drop.  In its place, there is an epidemic of abuse of and death from fentanyl, the overwhelming majority of which is smuggled into the United States from oversees, principally from China.  The annual number of overdoses in the US from fentanyl now exceeds the number from pills by 5-fold, and from heroin by 14-fold.

Your post makes it sound like pill distribution dropped because fentanyl use rose when in fact that is a misdirection.

The important takeaway from this chart is that fentanyl rose to fill a void ALREADY caused by the drop in pill distribution due to stronger regulation.

Now look at the chart again. While death from heroin use dropped significantly, death from pill distribution has stayed AT OR NEAR PEAK LEVELS even after the rise of death from fentanyl.

2015 was roughly the time I started the thread on Perdue in the Watercooler, and it was at the height of the pill epidemic (as your chart proves) and fentanyl came in at this point. People were literally openly overdosing in public at children's sporting events as one article noted.

All that happened was that the demand created by Perdue was replaced with fentanyl as the supply. 

The chart also proves my worst fears. I argued that the measures taken over the last few years would destroy more lives than ever before by overdose and suicide. You were quite vocal about suicide and overdoses not rising. 

Since then, we're having unprecedented 30% rises YEAR OVER YEAR. That's a near doubling in 3 years.  

Life always finds a way and addicts are the most efficient example of this. 

Those people who are now dying, as illustrated by the meteoric rise in suicides and overdoses (primarily in young people, no less) in the chart above have those to thank, who backed measures that everyone knew would turn into this while many of us tried to prevent it. 

[namisgr]

Among the fallacies here, I'll just respond to one: the false notion that " the system quite literally sold the pills as "safe and effective" when in fact they were neither safe nor effective. Now where have we heard the phrase "safe and effective" before? "

Opioids are now and have for the past several decades been dispensed with black box warmings on the package inserts.  A boxed warning is the most serious warning by the Food and Drug Administration. Its purpose is to alert people about drug effects that are potentially dangerous.  In the case of opioids, they are sold with multiple black box warnings, including the danger for drug interactions with alcohol and other respiratory depressants, the danger of abuse liability, addiction, dependence and withdrawal, and the danger of dizziness while driving or operating machinery.

There is no opioid sold legally in the United States without multiple black box warnings on the bottle and package insert.

As for their efficacy, there are presently no treatments that alleviate strong pain other than opioids, accounting for their continuing use for relief of strong pain post-surgically and in end-stage cancers and at the end-stage of other terminal disease states. Their continuing value in biomedicine is both genuine and beyond question.  "The system" regulates the manufacturing and dispensing of opioids, and the number of prescriptions for them has steadily declined once the restrictions were further tightened, as admittedly should have taken place years earlier.  "The system" filed and won criminal cases more than 20 years ago against the handful of niche pharmaceutical companies distributing opioids (the niche being their primary products, unlike the major multinational Pharma companies) for uses they are unapproved to treat.  The pill mills responsible in the prior decade for the majority of opioid pill distribution are criminal operations, and anything but part of "the system".  Finally, as made plain by the graph above, during the time when opioid manufacturing and prescription distribution have both been tightened and fewer pills dispensed, it is the illicit manufacturing, importation, and sale of fentanyl (an entirely different set of operations different from medical use for strong pain relief) that has been responsible for the vast majority of overdose deaths for the past five years and for the overall increase in overdose deaths in the US.

It would be enlightening to consider and compare "the systems" involved with opioids and with cigarettes and alcohol, substances that have social use but are lacking any formal medical use, but that's another lengthy topic.

Edited November 22, 2023 by namisgr

[namisgr]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:48 PM, VintageComics said:

You were quite vocal about suicide and overdoses not rising. 

 

 This is complete nonsense and a personal smear.  When the topic under discussion was excess all cause mortality in the US and the large readily measurable impact of a certain newly emerged medical emergency, I made clear that the numerical increases in deaths by overdose and suicide were less than 5% of the increase in collective annual deaths in our country, proving they weren't responsible for it.

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by namisgr

[VintageComics]

On 11/22/2023 at 5:20 AM, namisgr said:

 This is complete nonsense and a personal smear.  When the topic under discussion was excess all cause mortality in the US and the large readily measurable impact of a certain newly emerged medical emergency, I made clear that the numerical increases in deaths by overdose and suicide were less than 5% of the increase in collective annual deaths in our country, proving they weren't responsible for it.

Coming from a family rife with mental illness + addiction, (1 sibling suicided, 2nd attempted, 3rd lives in the streets, 1 aunt died young due to meds for schizophrenia and my dad died during a liver transplant from alcoholism) my concern has always been for dangers posed to the mentally ill, addicts, and the abused. I've grown up in that world my entire life.

Meanwhile, at the time you and others smeared me, accusing me of falsely caring about addicts and the mentally ill. 

Best of all, I can't even fact check anything because I don't have access to the Watercooler, you edit your past posts anyway so they can't be trusted and it can't be openly discussed because it's a forbidden topic. 

Why did you even step into this thread?

The airing of grievances is over. Kang is done. 

 

[500Club]

On 11/21/2023 at 3:48 PM, VintageComics said:

On 9/13/2023 at 11:15 AM, 500Club said:

As usual, the truth lies in the middle, and the solution is to use a tool responsibly.

It's hard to use a "tool" responsibly when the experts and authorities dispensing the "tool" were corrupt and feeding these overly addictive pills to people who didn't need them and hiding how addictive they were. 

This IS a valid point.  Purdue and the Sacklers presented a narrative different from the evidence they had, and justifiably were held to account.

When ‘for profit’ models and systems interact with health care, significant oversight is needed.

[VintageComics]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:43 AM, 500Club said:

This IS a valid point.  Purdue and the Sacklers presented a narrative different from the evidence they had, and justifiably were held to account.

When ‘for profit’ models and systems interact with health care, significant oversight is needed.

Good God, thank you. 

I have NO idea how anyone can dispute this or why they'd even try. They LIED to the public. 

[namisgr]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:43 AM, 500Club said:

This IS a valid point.  Purdue and the Sacklers presented a narrative different from the evidence they had, and justifiably were held to account.

When ‘for profit’ models and systems interact with health care, significant oversight is needed.

Yep, as I wrote just above:  "The system" filed and won criminal cases more than 20 years ago against the handful of niche pharmaceutical companies distributing opioids (the niche being their primary products, unlike the major multinational Pharma companies) for uses they are unapproved to treat. 

Purdue, Mallinckrodt, and Endo were brought to bankruptcy by the system, and rightly so.  It's a shame that the regulatory system wasn't faster in accomplishing it, but the litigation took a long time.

Edited November 22, 2023 by namisgr

[VintageComics]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:29 PM, namisgr said:

Yep, as I wrote just above:  "The system" filed and won criminal cases more than 20 years ago against the handful of niche pharmaceutical companies distributing opioids (the niche being their primary products, unlike the major multinational Pharma companies) for uses they are unapproved to treat. 

Purdue, Mallinckrodt, and Endo were brought to bankruptcy by the system, and rightly so.  It's a shame that the regulatory system wasn't faster in accomplishing it, but the litigation took a long time.

Why do you keep trying to minimize everything? It's not like they caught a few "small time" bad guys. 

Which of these statistics builds confidence to anyone?

The pharmaceutical industry spends more on lobbying than any other industry and nearly DOUBLE what #2 spends.

The pharmaceutical industry spends more on advertising than any other industry and nearly DOUBLE what #2 spends. 

The pharmaceutical industry has paid out among the largest fines in corporate history. 

Prescription drugs for the LONGEST time were the 3rd leading cause of death after Cancer and Heart Disease. 

There is NO WAY to pretend corruption in the pharmaceutical industry is just an isolated incident and it's all unicorns and butterflies. 

We get it. You trust them implicitly. Many don't, and if it weren't for the many lies by omission and constant manipulation of people's perception by quite literally the most powerful marketing campaigns on earth, you'd be standing nearly alone. 

Do you even talk to people on the street about this?

Or do you just get all your facts from former employers and Google? 

NOBODY trusts them anymore, especially people who trusted them only to get burned. 

My sister committed suicide because a pharmaceutical drug she was given made her psychotic and after multiple attempts over years she finally succeeded.

Tell the 4 kids she left behind that they're safe and that it's "just niche industries". Goodness.