Batman: TDKR

[runningman]

I've just finished reading this graphic novel and quite enjoyed it. I read it with a keen eye on Miller's pencils. How would those that keenly collect all things Frank Miller (I know there's a lot out there) describe his style on this particular book? I'm interested to know.

[runningman]

Not a single comment on this? Hmmm.....

 

I did get a good article PM'd to me here:

 

http://www.bookshelfcomics.com/backinthedaycafe/thedarkknightreturns.html

[Timulty]

I guess, chunky, two dimensional would be my take on it. I liked it, it was different, it lent itself well to a stark nigh apocalyptic world, in which it was set. The apocalypse, of course, being the victory over of crime over law and political corruption. I particularly loved, the scenes with the Ronald Reagan type president. That made a very interesting statement to me. I read the sequel. To me, it tried to bring an order to the artwork, that was unnecessary. I don't believe Miller recaptured the feel of the original. Not by a long shot.

 

Ronin was another that had some really interesting artwork as well, by the way.

[UnrulyAppendage]

Looking back, you can see how wrong Frank Miller politics were. The US didn't start a war with USSR and Reagan's policies worked to the point in which USSR was defeated without a single shot being fired. I think one of the resons we have Infinite Crisis is because of DKR. It was never meant to be part of the regular DC continuity but the attitudes and tone of the DCU copied that of DKR after Crisis. DKR on the whole is a great piece of work, however, I think some of it's effects on the DCU have been negative. It should have stayed in the Elseworld category. Of course, I think comic book readers are to blame for this as that is the style we wanted.

[Silvers24]

I am strill readin it, I dunno if I like the pencling, but the story is good, but there is allotta talken, so therfore takes allot of time to read, and me only haven till tomorrow to read it (And I still have to read yr one. Damn it.). I am surprised that it has the language in it. Good read for that too IMO.

[Timulty]

Looking back, you can see how wrong Frank Miller politics were. The US didn't start a war with USSR and Reagan's policies worked to the point in which USSR was defeated without a single shot being fired. I think one of the resons we have Infinite Crisis is because of DKR. It was never meant to be part of the regular DC continuity but the attitudes and tone of the DCU copied that of DKR after Crisis. DKR on the whole is a great piece of work, however, I think some of it's effects on the DCU have been negative. It should have stayed in the Elseworld category. Of course, I think comic book readers are to blame for this as that is the style we wanted.

 

I suppose the term Zeitgeist applies here. I don't think it was so much a statement of Frank Miller's politics but more of the feeling about what could happen based on the 20 years before. If there is one comic that deserves scholarly study, I believe this is it. Yeah, it should have been viewed outside the context of then current continuity. But instead, it became one of the books to herald in the "New Age" of comics, that mirrored the stark, gritty reality around us. Not the bubble gum saccharin affair that came before. My understanding of Infinite Crisis, is that it will bring us closer to the "Silver Age" in terms of story writing. A little Bubble gum, now and then isn't a bad thing. Perhaps, my favorite character Captain Marvel will be back in vogue.

[UnrulyAppendage]

I don't think it was so much a statement of Frank Miller's politics but more of the feeling about what could happen based on the 20 years before.

 

True, but he could have had a generic president and it would have worked. Miller tried to convey Reagan didn't know what he was doing and was leading the country to a war because he was careless and wanted one. Turns out he was wrong and the policy worked.

[Timulty]

I don't think it was so much a statement of Frank Miller's politics but more of the feeling about what could happen based on the 20 years before.

 

True, but he could have had a generic president and it would have worked. Miller tried to convey Reagan didn't know what he was doing and was leading the country to a war because he was careless and wanted one. Turns out he was wrong and the policy worked.

 

I think he used Reagan because of his Patriarchal characteristics. Reagan was like a dad or grandfather. America felt conforted by him, especially after previous presidents. Plus, more than any president, Reagan had comic book character written all over him.

[RTBrandy]

Plus, more than any president, Reagan had comic book character written all over him.

 

unfortunately, though, every one of them since him, do too

[Timulty]

Plus, more than any president, Reagan had comic book character written all over him.

 

unfortunately, though, every one of them since him, do too

 

I DO AGREE!! I do agree.

[UnrulyAppendage]

I think he used Reagan because of his Patriarchal characteristics. Reagan was like a dad or grandfather. America felt conforted by him, especially after previous presidents. Plus, more than any president, Reagan had comic book character written all over him.

 

Possibly, but the political climate back then was Reagan was taking us on the brink of war with the Soviets. Those that opposed Reagans policies portrayed him as a bumbling insufficiently_thoughtful_person. It turned out Reagan was right and he knew what he was doing. I don't think he picked Reagan because of his patriarchal characteristics. He picked him because he thought he could portray Reagan as someone who either wanted a war, or didn't have sense to avoid one. Miller wanted DKR to be a lesson against global war, but it turns out Reagan was the one that taught the lesson.

[Timulty]

Well, if the rest of America, knew at the time, that the USSR was basically imploding, I think his political opponents wouldn't have felt that way. Reagan did little to give a sense of his intellect. I think, he was trying to be a bit of the opposite, of Jimmy Carter. He was indeed, a consummate politician, at least as far as his public persona.

[runningman]

Looking back, you can see how wrong Frank Miller politics were. The US didn't start a war with USSR and Reagan's policies worked to the point in which USSR was defeated without a single shot being fired. I think one of the resons we have Infinite Crisis is because of DKR. It was never meant to be part of the regular DC continuity but the attitudes and tone of the DCU copied that of DKR after Crisis. DKR on the whole is a great piece of work, however, I think some of it's effects on the DCU have been negative. It should have stayed in the Elseworld category. Of course, I think comic book readers are to blame for this as that is the style we wanted.

 

I suppose the term Zeitgeist applies here. I don't think it was so much a statement of Frank Miller's politics but more of the feeling about what could happen based on the 20 years before. If there is one comic that deserves scholarly study, I believe this is it. Yeah, it should have been viewed outside the context of then current continuity. But instead, it became one of the books to herald in the "New Age" of comics, that mirrored the stark, gritty reality around us. Not the bubble gum saccharin affair that came before. My understanding of Infinite Crisis, is that it will bring us closer to the "Silver Age" in terms of story writing. A little Bubble gum, now and then isn't a bad thing. Perhaps, my favorite character Captain Marvel will be back in vogue.

 

I like your synopsis timulty.

[Timulty]

Looking back, you can see how wrong Frank Miller politics were. The US didn't start a war with USSR and Reagan's policies worked to the point in which USSR was defeated without a single shot being fired. I think one of the resons we have Infinite Crisis is because of DKR. It was never meant to be part of the regular DC continuity but the attitudes and tone of the DCU copied that of DKR after Crisis. DKR on the whole is a great piece of work, however, I think some of it's effects on the DCU have been negative. It should have stayed in the Elseworld category. Of course, I think comic book readers are to blame for this as that is the style we wanted.

 

I suppose the term Zeitgeist applies here. I don't think it was so much a statement of Frank Miller's politics but more of the feeling about what could happen based on the 20 years before. If there is one comic that deserves scholarly study, I believe this is it. Yeah, it should have been viewed outside the context of then current continuity. But instead, it became one of the books to herald in the "New Age" of comics, that mirrored the stark, gritty reality around us. Not the bubble gum saccharin affair that came before. My understanding of Infinite Crisis, is that it will bring us closer to the "Silver Age" in terms of story writing. A little Bubble gum, now and then isn't a bad thing. Perhaps, my favorite character Captain Marvel will be back in vogue.

 

I like your synopsis timulty.

[joe_collector]

I'm just confused as to what "stark, gritty reality around us" he's jabbering about? My life is pretty good, and pretty well always has been.

[Timulty]

But for comic book characters, back in the sixties and seventies, portrayal of the world and its issues was very, very unrealistic. The 80's brought that back into focus. What's really funny, is that with the exception of the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series, DC virtually ignored social topics while Marvel seemed to embrace them. One could say, that DC took a page out of Marvel's book but I don't think that is exactly the case.

[joe_collector]

But for comic book characters, back in the sixties and seventies, portrayal of the world and its issues was very, very unrealistic.

 

And it still is. DKR was NOT realism, it was "grim and gritty" fantasy. Watchmen too - pure and total fantasy. Just because they're dark, gritty and written well, does not automatically mean they're more realistic.

 

About the closest comics ever got to tackling "real world issues" was GL/GR or the early Bronze Age ASM run.

[UnrulyAppendage]

Well, if the rest of America, knew at the time, that the USSR was basically imploding, I think his political opponents wouldn't have felt that way. Reagan did little to give a sense of his intellect. I think, he was trying to be a bit of the opposite, of Jimmy Carter. He was indeed, a consummate politician, at least as far as his public persona.

 

I am glad Reagan was the opposite of Carter and he couldn't help the ignorance of his opponents. His political opponents could not stand his stance that might makes right. If you want to say Reagan gave little evidence of his intellect, I think his critics showed a lack of intelligence in regards to handling the USSR.

[Timulty]

Well, if the rest of America, knew at the time, that the USSR was basically imploding, I think his political opponents wouldn't have felt that way. Reagan did little to give a sense of his intellect. I think, he was trying to be a bit of the opposite, of Jimmy Carter. He was indeed, a consummate politician, at least as far as his public persona.

 

I am glad Reagan was the opposite of Carter and he couldn't help the ignorance of his opponents. His political opponents could not stand his stance that might makes right. If you want to say Reagan gave little evidence of his intellect, I think his critics showed a lack of intelligence in regards to handling the USSR.

 

This really wasn't a criticism of Reagan so much as a testament to his craftiness. Carter, had given an air of intellectual aloofness which did not do him good stand. I think, his political opponents did not like his(Reagan's) forcing the issue with the weakened USSR. In a way, he set back foreign policy during his first term but regained his international "chops", as it were, in the second by getting Russia back to the table. This was very shrewd. Beat down your opponent then talk to them. This seems to be a trait of Rep. Presidents since.

[Marc Spector-migration]

I've just finished reading this graphic novel and quite enjoyed it. I read it with a keen eye on Miller's pencils. How would those that keenly collect all things Frank Miller (I know there's a lot out there) describe his style on this particular book? I'm interested to know.

 

I recently reread this series, and think it's fantastic. Every panel moves the story forward, it builds, and Miller is quite clever about it. It's surprising that all these little panels have such a cumulative impact, as I usually prefer bigger art, but it works due to Miller's writing and pacing. Storytelling.

 

The way he presents scenes, without always showing us but suggesting instead...for instance the image of the pearls when Bruce Wayne's parents are killed.

 

The series has something to say about the media, politics, and public opinion. It's entertaining too! I'd rate it as one of the top graphic novel/comic stories ever, for the art and writing, and how well they work together.