COMIC STORES 2023: 'IT'S NEARLY 2024 AND I'M MORE THAN CONCERNED' 4 4

[squidmo2000]

nothing like a  good whiskey after losing hundreds in AC.....ooffafaa...

[squidmo2000]

loaded! losing in AC with a Surfer book in my hand,damn you Joe!

[VintageComics]

On 12/1/2023 at 7:43 PM, Prince Namor said:

On 12/1/2023 at 4:21 PM, VintageComics said:

I also stand by the point that Manga (or Japanese comics), which is overtaking American comics are probably a model most should consider. 

I just had a very interesting conversation with a person (pretty much a stranger, I've only met them twice now including today) about Manga and why the read it. 

They basically told me that Manga is like The Simpsons, in that they have a huge amount of social commentary and open discourse that is permitted because the characters are not 'human' in the discussions, making the topics thought provoking without making them offensive. 

They told this sort of direct view into social culture is what makes Manga so appealing to them, and I can understand why. 

Outside of Battle of the Planets in the 80's and Frank Miller's obvious Japanese influence in comics, my experience to Japanese comic books is pretty limited. 

Does this ring true to any of the manga readers here?

Not at all. 

PART of Manga's overall appeal comes from exactly the type of content YOU believe is screwing up the American market. There's no shortage of fairies, feminine male characters, homosexuals (MALE maybe even more than female), Transgender, deviant HETROsexual behaviors... violence, ultra violence... RAPE... Manga does NOT hold back at all. 

You quoted me but didn't reply to anything I said in the quote.

You then proceeded to redirect the conversation to interject what you think my personal beliefs are (and you were wrong about that as well), and not at all what is represented or asked of in my quote.

You continually make things personal, which is why I can't have a proper conversation with you. 

Please stop making it personal.

Thanks. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 12/2/2023 at 12:00 AM, squidmo2000 said:

nothing like a  good whiskey after losing hundreds in AC.....ooffafaa...

Dude, you need to pull back on the whisky posting a little. 

[Chip Cataldo]

I used to drunk post in here all the time. That takes me back. Memmmorrrriieeeeeessss...

[VintageComics]

On 12/1/2023 at 10:58 PM, Amazeron said:

But the sad truth is, with the absence of comics in stores along with the rise in digital entertainment there isn’t a wide enough appeal nor use for comics towards the current generation. 

That was my fundamental point #2 which I posted a few weeks ago. 

Children are being socially programmed by social media to be impatient, seek instant gratification, and choose visuals over words. They're being deprogrammed and becoming illiterate in just 1-2 generations. Just looking at how they spell in texts and messages is a leading indicator. They can't spell properly, form proper grammar or even have proper conversations anymore. 

And everyone is wondering why they don't read comics?

A perfect social engineering parallel is comic collecting. Collecting has moved from collecting reading content to collecting covers only. 

For example, does anyone have any old OSPG handy? I don't. 

How did, say,  Detective #31 (classic cover) compare to #33 (origin story) 40 years ago?

30 years ago?

20 years ago?

Today?

We know today that #31 is a monster book that eclipses #33 in value now, but did it always eclipse #33? I'd guess and say that #33 was the more desirable book when people actually READ the book. Once reading became passe, #31 overtook it. 

In much the same way, young people are being DISCOURAGED from reading so all the content in the world won't matter if they don't want to, or worse CAN'T read. 

We are literally changing how we behave and act on a scale across ALL society, through social media. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by VintageComics

[Prince Namor]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:18 PM, VintageComics said:

You quoted me but didn't reply to anything I said in the quote.

Yes, I did.

You think it all has to do with financial institutions deciding what Marvel should do, as the reason for falling sales.

I showed that sales have been falling for decades before there was any such possibility of their involvement.

Which word confused you?

On 12/2/2023 at 10:18 PM, VintageComics said:

You then proceeded to redirect the conversation to interject what you think my personal beliefs are (and you were wrong about that as well), and not at all what is represented or asked of in my quote.

I addressed exactly what you said.

I then answered your question on Manga. 

On 12/2/2023 at 10:18 PM, VintageComics said:

You continually make things personal, which is why I can't have a proper conversation with you. 

Please stop making it personal.

Thanks. 

Whenever you get challenged on your points and have no answer you always try and turn it into this.

You can't stand to be WRONG.

Your Blackrock nonsense controlling how media corporations produce content is just ludicrous and you have ZERO proof to show otherwise.

Face it - You're WRONG.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Prince Namor

[VintageComics]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:57 AM, Prince Namor said:

Yes, I did.

You think it all has to do with financial institutions deciding what Marvel should do, as the reason for falling sales.

I showed that sales have been falling for decades before there was any such possibility of their involvement.

Which word confused you?

I addressed exactly what you said.

I then answered your question on Manga. 

Whenever you get challenged on your points and have no answer you always try and turn it into this.

You can't stand to be WRONG.

Your Blackrock nonsense controlling how media corporations produce content is just ludicrous and you have ZERO proof to show otherwise.

Face it - You're WRONG.

You interjected what you think are my personal beliefs into a discussion purely about economics. Please stop interjecting what you think my personal beliefs are into discussions.

In regards to the parts in your quote that I bolded above, I absolutely did not state those things either. Those are your INTERPRETATIONS of what I wrote based on a game of broken telephone or your bad memory. I know because I've been guilty of it in the past, realized it and don't do it any longer. 

Try to find quotes of mine stating what you stated in bold above. You won't find them anywhere because I never said them. If you don't directly quote someone's words, and ONLY stick what they've stated, it's impossible to have a reasonable conversation. 

This is not how proper conversations are done. 

[Prince Namor]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:24 AM, VintageComics said:

There are two important facets to this discussion as I see it.

1) The world is very diverse and there are many successful (and unsuccessful businesses) but in order for a business to be successful for the long term, it needs to be honest with itself and allowed to operate freely to produce it's art form as it sees fit. This includes things you don't like. 

Businesses are being pressured and influenced by outside forces. It's happening in every area of life without exception. Every single person reading this feels it, sees it and knows it. 

They are not allowed to operate as they see fit and the internet that was supposed to connect everyone is the single most divisive tool in all of human history. You put out something someone doesn't like and they can destroy your life from their smelly sofa covered in popcorn and soda pop.

When you are trying to please many masters, you're dishonest with yourself.

This is your first post in the thread.

On 11/20/2023 at 1:24 AM, VintageComics said:

So why are people surprised that there are so many failures when there is so much dishonesty?

Seems pretty clear to me what you're saying...

[Prince Namor]

On 12/2/2023 at 11:12 PM, VintageComics said:

You interjected what you think are my personal beliefs into a discussion purely about economics. Please stop interjecting what you think my personal beliefs are into discussions.

In regards to the parts in your quote that I bolded above, I absolutely did not state those things either. Those are your INTERPRETATIONS of what I wrote based on a game of broken telephone or your bad memory. I know because I've been guilty of it in the past, realized it and don't do it any longer. 

Try to find quotes of mine stating what you stated in bold above. You won't find them anywhere because I never said them. If you don't directly quote someone's words, and ONLY stick what they've stated, it's impossible to have a reasonable conversation. 

This is not how proper conversations are done. 

So what is your point with bringing up ESG in a conversation SPECIFICALLY about 'COMIC STORES 2023: 'IT'S NEARLY 2024 AND I'M MORE THAN CONCERNED'?

[Readcomix]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:40 AM, VintageComics said:

That was my fundamental point #2 which I posted a few weeks ago. 

Children are being socially programmed by social media to be impatient, seek instant gratification, and choose visuals over words. They're being deprogrammed and becoming illiterate in just 1-2 generations. Just looking at how they spell in texts and messages is a leading indicator. They can't spell properly, form proper grammar or even have proper conversations anymore. 

And everyone is wondering why they don't read comics?

A perfect social engineering parallel is comic collecting. Collecting has moved from collecting reading content to collecting covers only. 

For example, does anyone have any old OSPG handy? I don't. 

How did, say,  Detective #31 (classic cover) compare to #33 (origin story) 40 years ago?

30 years ago?

20 years ago?

Today?

We know today that #31 is a monster book that eclipses #33 in value now, but did it always eclipse #33? I'd guess and say that #33 was the more desirable book when people actually READ the book. Once reading became passe, #31 overtook it. 

In much the same way, young people are being DISCOURAGED from reading so all the content in the world won't matter if they don't want to, or worse CAN'T read. 

We are literally changing how we behave and act on a scale across ALL society, through social media. 

You got me curious, and I have OSPG #8 (1978-1979) handy… both 31 and 33 are broken out from the run,…#31 at $525 in Mint, #33 at $900. (#27 was at $4200 in Mint. To broaden context, AF 15 was at $360 and Hulk 181, also broken out, was at $1.20, both in Mint).

#8 is the OSPG with the Bill Ward cover with Torchy, Phantom Lady, Wonder Woman, Miss Fury etc.

[VintageComics]

On 12/2/2023 at 11:50 AM, Readcomix said:

You got me curious, and I have OSPG #8 (1978-1979) handy… both 31 and 33 are broken out from the run,…#31 at $525 in Mint, #33 at $900.

There you go. 

Historically, IIRC classic covers did NOT sell for as much as "origin stories" pre internet. 

It was the advent of the internet - and CGC is definitely a product of the internet - that drove demand to a cover market and suppressed prices of origin stories. 

I remember chasing "origin stories" fervently as a kid. They were hot keys in the 70's and 80's (I stopped collecting in the 90's).

If an origin story was reprinted, everyone still wanted it. 

By the time the 2000s came around, covers began to overtake and now they are considered the ultimate collecting goal. 

I give you LB Cole covers as the perfect example.

Even 10 years ago you could purchase LB Cole covers for a few $100. I know because I bought a set of high grade LB Cole cover books and sold them here.

Now those same books are going for $1000's and $10,000s. 

Does ANYONE know which stories are in those LB Cole books? Likely not. 

[Bookery]

On 12/1/2023 at 11:02 PM, Buzzetta said:

That was an invigorating 25-30 minute read for $45

Does Marvel REALLY expect people to sit down and consume "an episode" of their comic book that last for 6 minutes then wait for another 2-4 weeks for the next 6 minute episode?
 

This.

[VintageComics]

On 12/2/2023 at 11:24 AM, Prince Namor said:

So what is your point with bringing up ESG in a conversation SPECIFICALLY about 'COMIC STORES 2023: 'IT'S NEARLY 2024 AND I'M MORE THAN CONCERNED'?

You've attacked me for weeks unprovoked, mischaracterized my posts, and when I finally challenge you to produce what I wrote (and don't) you are just now admitting you don't even understand what I wrote? 

I'm thankful that everyone can now see for themselves why I no longer reply. 

Have a good day. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/2/2023 at 12:25 PM, Bookery said:

On 12/1/2023 at 11:02 PM, Buzzetta said:

That was an invigorating 25-30 minute read for $45

Does Marvel REALLY expect people to sit down and consume "an episode" of their comic book that last for 6 minutes then wait for another 2-4 weeks for the next 6 minute episode?
 

This.

Remember when we used to be patient enough to wait 3 months so snail mail a check to a dealer for a comic we wanted and often would not even get the book we asked for?

What a far cry from just a few decades ago. 

One of the fundamental root problems to many industries is people no longer have patience to seek out the good things that wait on the other side of that patience. Like the delayed gratification of waiting for a next installment. It's actually a beautiful thing that many in upcoming generations will never experience. 

Instilling patience and delayed gratification in kids is just as important as making sure they're educated and mentally healthy. 

In fact, that sort of patience will ensure the rest falls into place.

Edited December 2, 2023 by VintageComics

[Prince Namor]

On 12/3/2023 at 12:26 AM, VintageComics said:

You've attacked me for weeks unprovoked, mischaracterized my posts, and when I finally challenge you to produce what I wrote (and don't) you are just now admitting you don't even understand what I wrote? 

I'm thankful that everyone can now see for themselves why I no longer reply. 

Have a good day. 

I DID produce what you wrote 6 posts back.

All any one can see is you changing your story because you've been exposed. You basically said it all in your first post of this thread. 

 

Here it is again:

Businesses are being pressured and influenced by outside forces. It's happening in every area of life without exception. Every single person reading this feels it, sees it and knows it. 

and then 

So why are people surprised that there are so many failures when there is so much dishonesty?

 

For you to blatantly deny that what you posted above - in your first post of this thread (you know, the one called: COMIC STORES 2023: 'IT'S NEARLY 2024 AND I'M MORE THAN CONCERNED') isn't spelling out that the interference of outside sources (re: ESG, as you later go into detail), IS NOT playing a part in Marvel's output is as DISHONEST as it GETS.

YOU are the one making that link to the two, NOT ME.

I simply called you out on it. Based on YOUR OWN WORDS.

 

So, now that I outed you, tell me how I'm being abusive, instead of admitting you're wrong. 

 

[Bookery]

On 12/2/2023 at 12:34 PM, VintageComics said:

Remember when we used to be patient enough to wait 3 months so snail mail a check to a dealer for a comic we wanted and often would not even get the book we asked for?

What a far cry from just a few decades ago. 

One of the fundamental root problems to many industries is people no longer have patience to seek out the good things that wait on the other side of that patience. Like the delayed gratification of waiting for a next installment. It's actually a beautiful thing that many in upcoming generations will never experience. 

Things have changed, however.  When I grew up, adults did not read comics.  There was also far more text to a comic book.  So not only do kids read slower than adults, there was more there to read to begin with.  A comic, carefully read, might take 20 minutes in the '60s. (And we won't even get into Classics Illustrated).  I could spend the afternoon with an 80-page Giant.  Today, comics are read almost exclusively by adults, and they can whip through 20 pages of essentially splash-pages in a few minutes.  Coupled with comics having risen in price 2x-3x the rate of inflation, the cost-entertainment value just isn't there, and for monthly floppies, never will be again.  Monthly distribution of titles are fine... but they should be full-length self-contained graphic novels.  There would still be collectibles... as first editions of hot original material would be in demand.

One of the things that hurt the pulp product was that many titles (not all) relied on novels broken into installments.  It would take 6 months to read a short novel like Princess of Mars.  When paperback novels were developed, you could have the whole story at one time, to be read at your leisure.

[VintageComics]

On 12/2/2023 at 12:44 PM, Bookery said:

Today, comics are read almost exclusively by adults, and they can whip through 20 pages of essentially splash-pages in a few minutes. 

Another great example of how much shorter our attention spans have gotten. Many new comics tend to be more geared toward visual porn than story telling. 

You and I don't enjoy reading those types of comics, but I believe Gen Y and Z do tend to. It's not really even reading, relatively speaking. It's more like 'reading along'.

[Chip Cataldo]

On 12/2/2023 at 12:50 PM, VintageComics said:

porn 

NOW we're talking!

[VintageComics]

On 12/2/2023 at 12:56 PM, Chip Cataldo said:

NOW we're Stalking!

Fixed that for you.