Incomplete book - adding missing pages - conservation? universal? 3 3

[SuperSt4r]

Hey guys, I bought DD #1 off eBay in universal 0.5 grade with page 12 missing. But I think that the book (cover and back) looks pretty nice - so I would say at least 3.0.
Would it make sense to try to find a coverless copy and complete the book? That would include removing staples (and cleaning & pressing). What do you think? Removing staples and (not only dry) cleaning would count only as conservation, right? So would that make sense in your opinion? 
Do you think it would be possible to do these tasks (staples, new pages, dry cleaning only) and still get the universal grade? I'm not saying that I would do it,  I'm just curious if anyone got away with this :-)

Thanks!

Edit:

P.S. If you noticed black spots on the back page, maybe from the rust on the bottom staple, I think it is fair to say that the book would need maybe leaf casting, a cleaned staple, and a deacidification bath to slow down further degradation. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by SuperSt4r

[SuperSt4r]

Photos added:

[grendelbo]

The book doesn't appear to be in high enough grade (VG range) to get a Qualified grade for the missing page.

However, if you marry a wrap to complete the missing page 12 it would get a Qualified grade.

It won't get a Universal or Conserved grade 

 

[Lightning55]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:30 AM, grendelbo said:

The book doesn't appear to be in high enough grade (VG range) to get a Qualified grade for the missing page.

However, if you marry a wrap to complete the missing page 12 it would get a Qualified grade.

It won't get a Universal or Conserved grade 

 

To leave it as is, wouldn't it get a 0.5 grade as Incomplete?

[grendelbo]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:37 AM, Lightning55 said:

To leave it as is, wouldn't it get a 0.5 grade as Incomplete?

Yes, although I seem to remember that CGC is no longer designating books as incomplete (at least not in the labels).

[MattTheDuck]

What's going on with that bottom staple in the back cover view?

[Lightning55]

As a blue label I believe it gets a 0.5 with a notation, just as the OP purchased it. They can't just ignore a missing page. Once it's encapsulated, no one would be able to check the page count, and presume complete unless noted.

And it probably is too low a grade for a Qualified label. Unless you marry in the missing page/wrap. If it is detected, that will trigger Qualified, but it will at least display its apparent grade. We need @The Lions Den to weigh in.

[SuperSt4r]

On 11/19/2023 at 7:37 PM, Lightning55 said:

To leave it as is, wouldn't it get a 0.5 grade as Incomplete?

it is a cgc universal grade 0.5 right now. 

[SuperSt4r]

On 11/19/2023 at 8:51 PM, MattTheDuck said:

What's going on with that bottom staple in the back cover view?

it might be "just" rust from the bottom staple. I hope (haven't got it yet, and it's still slabed, so no idea )....

[SuperSt4r]

On 11/19/2023 at 8:51 PM, Lightning55 said:

As a blue label I believe it gets a 0.5 with a notation, just as the OP purchased it. They can't just ignore a missing page. Once it's encapsulated, no one would be able to check the page count, and presume complete unless noted.

And it probably is too low a grade for a Qualified label. Unless you marry in the missing page/wrap. If it is detected, that will trigger Qualified, but it will at least display its apparent grade. We need @The Lions Den to weigh in.

There is actually a note below the title: "Page 12 missing", but I'm not sure that the story is affected.

[The Lions Den]

On 11/19/2023 at 2:51 PM, Lightning55 said:

As a blue label I believe it gets a 0.5 with a notation, just as the OP purchased it. They can't just ignore a missing page. Once it's encapsulated, no one would be able to check the page count, and presume complete unless noted.

And it probably is too low a grade for a Qualified label. Unless you marry in the missing page/wrap. If it is detected, that will trigger Qualified, but it will at least display its apparent grade. We need @The Lions Den to weigh in.

Thanks for the notification, but you guys are on the right track. I just have a few random thoughts...

The grading notes would be helpful, because there could be some other flaws that are noteworthy, such as what appears to be some serious rust at the bottom staple. This could be one reason the book wasn't deemed a 3.5 or above, which resulted in the Universal .5 instead of the Qualified 3.5 or above.  

And I seem to remember CGC doesn't put "INCOMPLETE" on the label anymore, but they are supposed to designate whether a missing page affects the story or not (so that could be an oversight on their part, but maybe they put that info in the notes). And I don't have a raw copy of Daredevil #1 right now, but one of the most common missing pages on early SA Marvels is the 12th page, which is quite often a pinup page. 

The other important thing to remember is that a book can actually get a no grade if it has too many missing pages (more than half, I believe) so in essence a decent looking .5 with a missing page isn't the worst thing that could happen, especially if it doesn't affect the story. 

I hope this helps in some small way, and I hope you all have a nice week...   

[SuperSt4r]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:56 PM, The Lions Den said:

Thanks for the notification, but you guys are on the right track. I just have a few random thoughts...

The grading notes would be helpful, ...

Thanks for weighing in! 

Well, that's totally an error on my side,.. I did a check-up only on gocollect.com and they don't show grading notes. Here are the grading notes directly from CGC (and some comments/questions - financially it might not make sense to go for the conserved grade, but somehow I feel responsible for stopping the rusting process? ): 

Grader Notes

chipping cover
missing interior part/page/wrap page(s) 12 does not affect story (OP: so that's positive  )
tape stain interior front cover (OP: seems like someone did try to remove the tape? For conservation = should be completely removed, right?)
moderate staining to cover (OP: dry/wet cleaning might help) 
moderate staple rust (OP: shouldn't that trigger the conservation process?)
moderate tanning cover (OP: dry/wet cleaning might help) 
moderate tanning interior cover (OP: dry/wet cleaning might help) 
multiple tear cover 

Edited November 19, 2023 by SuperSt4r

[The Lions Den]

On 11/19/2023 at 4:04 PM, SuperSt4r said:

Thanks for weighing in! 

Well, that's totally an error on my side,.. I did a check-up only on gocollect.com and they don't show grading notes. Here are the grading notes directly from CGC (and some comments/questions - financially it might not make sense to go for the conserved grade, but somehow I feel responsible for stopping the rusting process? ): 

Grader Notes

chipping cover
missing interior part/page/wrap page(s) 12 does not affect story (OP: so that's positive  )
tape stain interior front cover (OP: seems like someone did try to remove the tape? For conservation = should be completely removed, right?)
moderate staining to cover (OP: dry/wet cleaning might help) 
moderate staple rust (OP: shouldn't that trigger the conservation process?)
moderate tanning cover (OP: dry/wet cleaning might help) 
moderate tanning interior cover (OP: dry/wet cleaning might help) 
multiple tear cover 

There are some folks here on the boards that could probably help you with some (if not all) of these issues. I suppose it just depends on how much money you're willing to spend...  

[joeypost]

Be aware that that rusty staple could decide to snap into pieces if any attempt to add the missing wrap is attempted. 

[buttock]

On 11/19/2023 at 2:04 PM, SuperSt4r said:

Thanks for weighing in! 

Well, that's totally an error on my side,.. I did a check-up only on gocollect.com and they don't show grading notes. Here are the grading notes directly from CGC (and some comments/questions - financially it might not make sense to go for the conserved grade, but somehow I feel responsible for stopping the rusting process? ): 

Grader Notes

chipping cover
missing interior part/page/wrap page(s) 12 does not affect story (OP: so that's positive  )
tape stain interior front cover (OP: seems like someone did try to remove the tape? For conservation = should be completely removed, right?)
moderate staining to cover (OP: dry/wet cleaning might help) 
moderate staple rust (OP: shouldn't that trigger the conservation process?)
moderate tanning cover (OP: dry/wet cleaning might help) 
moderate tanning interior cover (OP: dry/wet cleaning might help) 
multiple tear cover 

You can stop the rusting process by just keeping it in a dry place.  Everything else you're proposing is way overkill.  Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.  

[Point Five]

On 11/20/2023 at 2:05 PM, buttock said:

Everything else you're proposing is way overkill.  Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.  

This. ^ If the book presented as a 8.0, I could maybe understand sinking the kind of time and money you describe into it. But this is a low-grader either way, and you'd be looking at a qualified label. I don't think you'd be adding much (if any at all) value to it.

 

[SuperSt4r]

On 11/20/2023 at 8:05 PM, buttock said:

You can stop the rusting process by just keeping it in a dry place.  ...  

 that sounds easy... let's see how it looks when I get it, but I'm sure I'll find other books to practice on.

Edited November 21, 2023 by SuperSt4r

[paulinehepburn]

On 11/19/2023 at 5:56 PM, SuperSt4r said:

Hey guys, I bought DD #1 off eBay in universal 0.5 grade with page 12 missing. But I think that the book (cover and back) looks pretty nice - so I would say at least 3.0.
Would it make sense to try to find a coverless copy and complete the book? That would include removing staples (and cleaning & pressing). What do you think? Removing staples and (not only dry) cleaning would count only as conservation, right? So would that make sense in your opinion? 
Do you think it would be possible to do these tasks (staples, new pages, dry cleaning only) and still get the universal grade? I'm not saying that I would do it,  I'm just curious if anyone got away with this :-)

Thanks!

Edit:

P.S. If you noticed black spots on the back page, maybe from the rust on the bottom staple, I think it is fair to say that the book would need maybe leaf casting, a cleaned staple, and a deacidification bath to slow down further degradation. 
 

Completing the book seems like a reasonable idea. Removing staples, cleaning and pressing, if carried out carefully, are generally considered conservation measures. I did something similar once, but it took much longer than I expected. I had to find a college papers for sale, I used college essay service for help. So expect this to take time. It is also worth considering that any changes to the structure may affect the conservation status of the collectible.

Edited November 28, 2023 by paulinehepburn

[Sauce Dog]

On 11/20/2023 at 12:01 PM, joeypost said:

Be aware that that rusty staple could decide to snap into pieces if any attempt to add the missing wrap is attempted. 

and the surrounding paper that the rust stain has migrated into can most certainly disintegrate away during the staple removal/manipulating process, leaving a nice hole on every single wrap (source: The last book I worked on. That was enough to give me comic-book-conservation-PTSD)

[SuperSt4r]

Thanks for you last responses @paulinehepburn & @Sauce Dog!

The book is still being shipped from the US to Europe, so no Idea how it looks like… I’ll keep you posted if I decide to get it out of the slab. But most definitely I will wait to find the DD#1 without the cover.