8.0 Criteria? 4 4

[tmac100]

I’ve been trying to get up to speed with being able to effectively grade comics, and picked up a copy of the Official CGC Guide to Grading Comics.

On Page 288 it describes the criteria for an 8.0.  I was surprised that a piece of around 1/2” by 1/2” could be missing on the cover.  Also that a punch hole would be allowed, or a 1” or 2” cover crease.

is that accurate?  I’ve never seen defects like that on an 8.0 (especially that large of a piece missing).  I would have expected to see any of those only in 7.0 or lower.

thanks

[Lightning55]

That guide is Crazy Town. Some things make no sense, like those you mention.

I find the OSPG much more comprehensive, sensible, and accurate. That guide is the culmination of decades of grading opinions, tweaks, clarifications, and editing. Why would you ignore it, and try to reinvent the wheel? And make a wheel with square corners at that. Makes no sense.

[The Lions Den]

Anyone can have an opinion, but I've always been under the impression that an 8.0 should have only minor wear---no significant pieces out, no punch holes, and no large creases that break color. Basically, a very well-preserved copy with a couple of minor defects, stored properly and handled with care.  

[grendelbo]

I haven't seen one. But to achieve that grade I imagine it'll have to fit these criteria -

1. The book is Golden Age.
2. It's darn near perfect other than the missing piece.
3. The missing piece is probably on the back cover.
4. It's a Unicorn grade. You'll likely to rarely see it.

[Funnybooks]

this confirms or dispels the criteria 

[grendelbo]

On 11/26/2023 at 6:55 PM, Funnybooks said:

this confirms or dispels the criteria 

Promise Collection example?

[Funnybooks]

On 11/26/2023 at 9:06 PM, grendelbo said:

Promise Collection example?

[namisgr]

That example from the Promise Collection is a travesty.  Here's a couple more typical 8.0 books from my ex-collection.  The sum total of very minor signs of wear at the corners, along the spine, and along the edges account for the assigned grades:

    

Edited November 27, 2023 by namisgr

[marvelmaniac]

You cannot have a piece missing from the cover or binder holes in a VF 8.0 unless as already stated that book would have been a NM+ 9.6 or NM/MT 9.8 to begin with.

As far as just pieces missing from the cover(s), there is not even a mention of pieces missing until you get to VG 4.0.

VG 4.0 - As much as a 1/4" triangle can be missing out of the corner or edge; a missing 1/8" square is also acceptable. 

GD/VG 3.0 - A triangle from 1/4" to 1/2" can be missing out of the corner or edge; a missing 1/8" to 1/4" square is also acceptable. 

GD 2.0 - The largest piece allowed missing from the front or back cover is usually a 1/2" triangle or a 1/4" square,

FR/GD 1.5 - Up to 1/10 of the back cover may be missing.

FR 1.0 -  there may be up to 1/4 of the front cover missing or no back cover, but not both. 

8.0 VERY FINE (VF):  Back to Top
An excellent copy with outstanding eye appeal. A limited accumulation of minor bindery/printing defects is allowed. Cover is relatively flat with minimal surface wear beginning to show, possibly including some minute wear at corners. Inks are generally bright with moderate to high reflectivity. An unnoticeable 1/4" crease is acceptable if color is not broken. Stamped or inked arrival dates may be present. Minor foxing. Spine is almost completely flat with a possible minor color break. Staples may show some discoloration. Very slight staple tears and a few almost insignificant stress lines may be present. Paper is cream to tan and supple. Centerfold is mostly secure. Minor interior tears at the margin may be present.

From The Overstreet Grading Guide, as you can see under "missing pieces" it states, "none allowed"

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by marvelmaniac

[jimjum12]

When I first joined here, I remember thinking that CGC had returned the dignity to the 8.0 grade. Perhaps they're reversing course now. I don't like pieces larger than a quarter inch square on a Fine. An issue with a piece out as large as the Promise comic wouldn't be able to coax 5.0 money out of my wallet, regardless of the numerical. I would feel the same way about a 2 inch corner crease that lightly breaks color or a piece of tape any size. I hope they'll reconsider that looseness. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[rjpb]

I'm in line with the OSPG criteria on VF. I might allow for as much as 1/4" color-breaking crease if the book was perfect otherwise, but never a missing corner. A tiny bindery chip at the top or bottom of spine would be acceptable. If a book had tan and supple pages though, I'd probably put a minus after the VF, I think VF should have cream pages at the least.

[jimjum12]

I'm a big fan of the approach in which a preponderance of defects, or a major defect, is an automat disqualification above a certain level. For example. if a book has almost every defect allowable in Fine, the book is ineligible for Fine. Same for most of the other grades, especially as they progress downward. GOD BLESS... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[tmac100]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:44 AM, marvelmaniac said:

You cannot have a piece missing from the cover or binder holes in a VF 8.0 unless as already stated that book would have been a NM+ 9.6 or NM/MT 9.8 to begin with.

As far as just pieces missing from the cover(s), there is not even a mention of pieces missing until you get to VG 4.0.

VG 4.0 - As much as a 1/4" triangle can be missing out of the corner or edge; a missing 1/8" square is also acceptable. 

GD/VG 3.0 - A triangle from 1/4" to 1/2" can be missing out of the corner or edge; a missing 1/8" to 1/4" square is also acceptable. 

GD 2.0 - The largest piece allowed missing from the front or back cover is usually a 1/2" triangle or a 1/4" square,

FR/GD 1.5 - Up to 1/10 of the back cover may be missing.

FR 1.0 -  there may be up to 1/4 of the front cover missing or no back cover, but not both. 

8.0 VERY FINE (VF):  Back to Top
An excellent copy with outstanding eye appeal. A limited accumulation of minor bindery/printing defects is allowed. Cover is relatively flat with minimal surface wear beginning to show, possibly including some minute wear at corners. Inks are generally bright with moderate to high reflectivity. An unnoticeable 1/4" crease is acceptable if color is not broken. Stamped or inked arrival dates may be present. Minor foxing. Spine is almost completely flat with a possible minor color break. Staples may show some discoloration. Very slight staple tears and a few almost insignificant stress lines may be present. Paper is cream to tan and supple. Centerfold is mostly secure. Minor interior tears at the margin may be present.

From The Overstreet Grading Guide, as you can see under "missing pieces" it states, "none allowed"

 

 

This is from the official CGC grading guide; see the 2nd paragraph.

it sounds like the Overstreet guide is more detailed, but CGC has different grading rules than Overstreet so you won’t necessarily get an accurate grade estimate if you plan to eventually send your books to CGC for grading.  For example it seems CGC is more lenient with creases on an 8.0.

[LowGradeBronze]

They're describing a much lower grade of comic there. Basically a VG+ is now a VF. For me a VF was always an otherwise near mint book with a couple of small flaws that dragged it down. A book with a 'regular tear' of one inch is not a VF. It's "oh that's a shame, that would have been an 8.0 but for that tear'"

Edited November 27, 2023 by LowGradeBronze

[rjpb]

A lot of those defects I wouldn't accept in a 6.0, let alone an 8.0. I'd also say both CGC and OSPG do a disservice in their grade criteria by not explaining that accumulation of defects is as or even more important than specific defects allowed. I've seen more than one seller try to pawn off a low grade book as VG because every flaw the book has is "allowed" in the grade.  

[LowGradeBronze]

As I read the extract I was thinking just that and was going to say that in effect (in the moving of goalposts to suit their own ends,) a 6.0 is now an 8.0 but for the fact I wouldn't accept those defects in a 6.0

What an indictment of the hobby when it says that heavy pressing defects often fall in this range!!!

@tmac100 what does it say about criteria for Fine?

Edited November 27, 2023 by LowGradeBronze

[The Lions Den]

On 11/27/2023 at 4:34 AM, namisgr said:

That example from the Promise Collection is a travesty.  Here's a couple more typical 8.0 books from my ex-collection.  The sum total of very minor signs of wear at the corners, along the spine, and along the edges account for the assigned grades:

    

Very nice examples with great eye appeal...  

[The Lions Den]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:25 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

As I read the extract I was thinking just that and was going to say that in effect (in the moving of goalposts to suit their own ends,) a 6.0 is now an 8.0 but for the fact I wouldn't accept those defects in a 6.0

What an indictment of the hobby when it says that heavy pressing defects often fall in this range!!!

@tmac100 what does it say about criteria for Fine?

[jimjum12]

Bottom line is that the 8.0 grade emerged to quickly characterize a NICE copy to facilitate mail order. If all sorts of defects that people don't normally associate with 8.0 are blended into the definition of 8.0, don't be disappointed if values for an "8.0" begin to drop. Especially the "new and improved" 8.0s.  GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

It will especially impact folks who post front scans only .... why bid strong on an 8.0 if the back cover might have a piece missing the size of Kansas? If we're going to fall back on the Production Defect loophole, then it should be in a green label. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by jimjum12

[Azkaban]

On 11/26/2023 at 7:55 PM, Funnybooks said:

this confirms or dispels the criteria 

woohoo now I know all my books are NM