Should Return Policy Disclose Responsibility of Return Shipping on Damage? 6 6

[CAHokie]

On 1/6/2024 at 7:53 AM, CGC Mike said:

This person's account has been deleted.

That was an extreme escalation on his part. If only he would have had another option. Something like saying, “Hey, sorry about that.  I will pack better next time.”

[Dick Pontoon]

Dang. I missed all the drama.

[Point Five]

On 1/6/2024 at 5:23 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Threads like these can have value if they lead to a rule change but I'm not a fan of these pile on situations where it's everyone against one inexperienced member. Writerwill has a lesson to learn, as others of good standing in this thread have said they had to learn. His response shows that he hasn't learned it yet, but it doesn't mean he's some generally awful person worthy of hounding. He'll learn soon enough that comics need protection. I would leave him alone now, as he has asked, and focus on whether a rule change is needed. 

I think your instincts here were better than mine. Good thoughts.

With that said, we may goof around, but what isn't obvious since he doesn't know us well is that we're a marketplace community that tries (however imperfectly) to support *all* its members fairly. I think @thehumantorch said something like this in the Top City Comics thread and it stayed with me -- that if a seller here had similarly disappointed Writerwill in a transaction, we would have Writerwill's back, even if the seller was a popular/longtime member.

And with all that said, it's no big deal to reregister. I hope he reconsiders his stance and will rejoin.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/6/2024 at 1:57 PM, Point Five said:

I think your instincts here were better than mine. Good thoughts.

We've all done it, joined in with the pack. On any given day our roles could've been reversed. 

Bad packaging drives me nuts but I've come to accept that it simply doesn't register with many people. It doesn't make them bad people - they just have a blind spot, possibly born of a lack of connection or understanding with the physicality of the item that they are selling. It's the same with vinyl records. I must have bought 100 times from Discogs last year and I would say 50% of them were packaged badly. If we spent our lives sweating over things that are obvious to us, but not to others, we'd lead very pent up lives. It's part of hobby, for me. Of all collectible hobbies. I made a rule to live with it, as the bad feeling that can come from constantly challenging it isn't worth it. If the person can't see it, they can't see it and the chances are that you won't be the one to make them see it. In 20 years of eBaying I've only once had a seller thank me for 'nicely' pointing out bad packaging. All the rest were as indignant as hell. So I don't bother pushing it anymore, and I feel calmer for it.

I would support a rule here on the forum along the lines of "Seller pays return shipping if demonstrable bad packaging results in damage" or something like that. I don't buy and sell here currently though, so the more experienced are better placed to shape that policy change if the majority agree with it.

[Point Five]

On 1/6/2024 at 9:15 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

We've all done it, joined in with the pack. On any given day our roles could've been reversed. 

Bad packaging drives me nuts but I've come to accept that it simply doesn't register with many people. It doesn't make them bad people - they just have a blind spot, possibly born of a lack of connection or understanding with the physicality of the item that they are selling. It's the same with vinyl records. I must have bought 100 times from Discogs last year and I would say 50% of them were packaged badly. If we spent our lives sweating over things that are obvious to us, but not to others, we'd lead very pent up lives. It's part of hobby, for me. Of all collectible hobbies. I made a rule to live with it, as the bad feeling that can come from constantly challenging it isn't worth it. If the person can't see it, they can't see it and the chances are that you won't be the one to make them see it. In 20 years of eBaying I've only once had a seller thank me for 'nicely' pointing out bad packaging. All the rest were as indignant as hell. So I don't bother pushing it anymore, and I feel calmer for it.

I would support a rule here on the forum along the lines of "Seller pays return shipping if demonstrable bad packaging results in damage" or something like that. I don't buy and sell here currently though, so the more experienced are better placed to shape that policy change if the majority agree with it.

I like the idea of that rule.

I've 'gently educated' many ebayers on packing and surprisingly it's usually well-received, at least in the moment. (Maybe after that they ship comics rolled up in cereal boxes just to spite me, who knows.)

 

[ThothAmon]

On 1/6/2024 at 10:02 AM, Point Five said:

I like the idea of that rule.

I bought three books from this seller in an earlier sales thread for close to a grand. The packaging was Shiite and the books were “oversold” in my opinion. Worth half what I paid. As far as his treatment here?  His behavior is what led whatever stick he’s gotten. 
 

As someone who buys here a lot no new rules please. No need for one unless it bans packing peanuts and excessive tape. 
 

 

[CAHokie]

On 1/6/2024 at 8:57 AM, Point Five said:

I think your instincts here were better than mine. Good thoughts.

With that said, we may goof around, but what isn't obvious since he doesn't know us well is that we're a marketplace community that tries (however imperfectly) to support *all* its members fairly. I think @thehumantorch said something like this in the Top City Comics thread and it stayed with me -- that if a seller here had similarly disappointed Writerwill in a transaction, we would have Writerwill's back, even if the seller was a popular/longtime member.

And with all that said, it's no big deal to reregister. I hope he reconsiders his stance and will rejoin.

 

 

On 1/6/2024 at 9:15 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

We've all done it, joined in with the pack. On any given day our roles could've been reversed. 

Bad packaging drives me nuts but I've come to accept that it simply doesn't register with many people. It doesn't make them bad people - they just have a blind spot, possibly born of a lack of connection or understanding with the physicality of the item that they are selling. It's the same with vinyl records. I must have bought 100 times from Discogs last year and I would say 50% of them were packaged badly. If we spent our lives sweating over things that are obvious to us, but not to others, we'd lead very pent up lives. It's part of hobby, for me. Of all collectible hobbies. I made a rule to live with it, as the bad feeling that can come from constantly challenging it isn't worth it. If the person can't see it, they can't see it and the chances are that you won't be the one to make them see it. In 20 years of eBaying I've only once had a seller thank me for 'nicely' pointing out bad packaging. All the rest were as indignant as hell. So I don't bother pushing it anymore, and I feel calmer for it.

I would support a rule here on the forum along the lines of "Seller pays return shipping if demonstrable bad packaging results in damage" or something like that. I don't buy and sell here currently though, so the more experienced are better placed to shape that policy change if the majority agree with it.

Good points in these posts, but I don’t think the true issue was his packaging. Balls was nice about it and he didn’t care at all. This is about his attitude regarding the bad packaging.

He is not the victim here. 

I also don’t think a new rule is needed. His shipping and attitude about it was not the norm. We can’t create a rule for every seller.  Most would have realized the mistake, apologized, and tried to do better next time. 

[KCOComics]

This resolution seems like an over reaction to a small situation. 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:56 AM, ThothAmon said:

I bought three books from this seller in an earlier sales thread for close to a grand. The packaging was Shiite and the books were “oversold” in my opinion. Worth half what I paid. As far as his treatment here?  His behavior is what led whatever stick he’s gotten. 
 

As someone who buys here a lot no new rules please. No need for one unless it bans packing peanuts and excessive tape. 
 

 

This post is actually more concerning to me. Overgrading and under packing.

[speedcake]

a little razzing just serves to filter out the weak.  we are all stronger now for his absence 

[thehumantorch]

On 1/6/2024 at 6:57 AM, Point Five said:

On 1/6/2024 at 3:23 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Threads like these can have value if they lead to a rule change but I'm not a fan of these pile on situations where it's everyone against one inexperienced member. Writerwill has a lesson to learn, as others of good standing in this thread have said they had to learn. His response shows that he hasn't learned it yet, but it doesn't mean he's some generally awful person worthy of hounding. He'll learn soon enough that comics need protection. I would leave him alone now, as he has asked, and focus on whether a rule change is needed. 

I think your instincts here were better than mine. Good thoughts.

With that said, we may goof around, but what isn't obvious since he doesn't know us well is that we're a marketplace community that tries (however imperfectly) to support *all* its members fairly. I think @thehumantorch said something like this in the Top City Comics thread and it stayed with me -- that if a seller here had similarly disappointed Writerwill in a transaction, we would have Writerwill's back, even if the seller was a popular/longtime member.

And with all that said, it's no big deal to reregister. I hope he reconsiders his stance and will rejoin.

I guess I'm a fan of these pile on situations as long as stay within board rules and give honest feedback.  Some people won't change until they realize the community by and large disagrees with them.  Unfortunately, some won't change even when they realize the community by and large disagrees with them and in this case we've lost a boardie who had something to contribute.   Sad part is this is over $5.

And yes, if this situation was reversed I'd have writerwills back and hold balldoctor's balls to the fire.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/6/2024 at 7:42 PM, thehumantorch said:

I guess I'm a fan of these pile on situations as long as stay within board rules and give honest feedback.  Some people won't change until they realize the community by and large disagrees with them.  Unfortunately, some won't change even when they realize the community by and large disagrees with them and in this case we've lost a boardie who had something to contribute.   Sad part is this is over $5.

And yes, if this situation was reversed I'd have writerwills back and hold balldoctor's balls to the fire.

Some of the pile on posts that prompted me to post this morning appear to have been removed. There's one, at least, that I can recall. That makes it look like I'm over reacting and siding with the guy who couldn't pack, and who took it badly when it was politely pointed out to him. I'm not. My advice was that people should own their mistakes. Separate to that, I said I didn't like pile ons. That comment took into account the nature of the removed post(s) and where the dialogue was heading.

[mattn792]

On 1/6/2024 at 2:42 PM, thehumantorch said:

I guess I'm a fan of these pile on situations as long as stay within board rules and give honest feedback.  Some people won't change until they realize the community by and large disagrees with them.  Unfortunately, some won't change even when they realize the community by and large disagrees with them and in this case we've lost a boardie who had something to contribute.   Sad part is this is over $5.

And yes, if this situation was reversed I'd have writerwills back and hold balldoctor's balls to the fire.

Did he really have something to contribute though?  From the comments I’ve seen from folks who actually bought from him, it seemed like transacting with Eric Cartman.

[Bio-Rupp]

Another reason everyone should be using Priority Mail Flat Rate Medium boxes that are available for FREE.

Well…even those $&@* some people off 

Sorry for the bad transaction my friend.  I love those old Sabrina books 

xxx ooo

Rupp

Edited January 6 by Bio-Rupp

[ThothAmon]

To be fair to him he followed up on our transaction asking how it went. At the time I gave him the Irish response by following the age old adage, if you don’t have anything nice to say say nothing at all.  Guess that didn’t work. 

[Patriot6]

On 1/6/2024 at 5:38 PM, ThothAmon said:

To be fair to him he followed up on our transaction asking how it went. At the time I gave him the Irish response by following the age old adage, if you don’t have anything nice to say say nothing at all.  Guess that didn’t work. 

Your instincts were probably right. In this case, nothing was likely a superior outcome over the something you had in store.  

[ChiSoxFan]

Late to the party, but I would just assume that any buyer worth their salt here would stand by their sale -- and their packing of said sale -- and make things right if their negligence resulted in damage to the book without needing any thing binding them to that.  Good reputations here are hard to build, but l've seen so many people over time wreck them over the smallest of things (this could be a perfect Exhibit: A of that).

Anyone who's bought from me knows that my books are packed to take damage from a tank and withstand it, but if I were to screw that up somehow and something went wrong, I'd own up to it, just like I would (and have) on anything that's ever been a mistake on my end (I've had thankfully few returns ovet the years, but I've always paid the return shipping, since in those cases it was something I missed or made a mistake on).  Even if the post office managed to break through my bomb-proof packing, I'm sure I'd STILL pay the return shipping (and go to war with the USPS to try and recoup the losses) since the buyer should never be out for something they had no part in causing. 

Extra rules might not be necessary, since someone who is packing like this particular seller was (and who had the attitude they did when called out on it) wouldn't last long selling here anyway.  In all of my years, the boards have had a way of weeding out the bad seeds.  If a rule like that was added, though, it's not going to affect the people who know what they're doing here when it comes to packing.

Sorry you had to deal with that headache, Jason, and thanks for the heads-up (though we might not see the seller here again, it's good to have this as a reminder just in case they make some sort of return in the future).

[CGC Mike]

On 1/6/2024 at 2:59 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Some of the pile on posts that prompted me to post this morning appear to have been removed.

Interesting.  I didn't manually remove any posts from this thread.  The person in questions posts that he made disappeared when his account was deleted.  

[thehumantorch]

On 1/6/2024 at 12:59 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Some of the pile on posts that prompted me to post this morning appear to have been removed. There's one, at least, that I can recall. That makes it look like I'm over reacting and siding with the guy who couldn't pack, and who took it badly when it was politely pointed out to him. I'm not. My advice was that people should own their mistakes. Separate to that, I said I didn't like pile ons. That comment took into account the nature of the removed post(s) and where the dialogue was heading.

I didn't see the posts that were removed.  I suspect we would agree that's it's okay to voice our opinions even if the vast majority of those opinions are similar -ie you're doing it wrong - but we should try to be fair and polite.

[thehumantorch]

On 1/6/2024 at 3:58 PM, mattn792 said:

Did he really have something to contribute though?  From the comments I’ve seen from folks who actually bought from him, it seemed like transacting with Eric Cartman.

I'd like to think we all have something to contribute. 

Ideally the the seller would have looked at the balldoctor's feedback about his shipping, realized he could have done better and learned from this.  Unfortunately, he choose another route.

[thehumantorch]

On 1/6/2024 at 5:39 PM, ChiSoxFan said:

Late to the party, but I would just assume that any buyer worth their salt here would stand by their sale -- and their packing of said sale -- and make things right if their negligence resulted in damage to the book without needing any thing binding them to that.  Good reputations here are hard to build, but l've seen so many people over time wreck them over the smallest of things (this could be a perfect Exhibit: A of that).

Anyone who's bought from me knows that my books are packed to take damage from a tank and withstand it, but if I were to screw that up somehow and something went wrong, I'd own up to it, just like I would (and have) on anything that's ever been a mistake on my end (I've had thankfully few returns ovet the years, but I've always paid the return shipping, since in those cases it was something I missed or made a mistake on).  Even if the post office managed to break through my bomb-proof packing, I'm sure I'd STILL pay the return shipping (and go to war with the USPS to try and recoup the losses) since the buyer should never be out for something they had no part in causing. 

Extra rules might not be necessary, since someone who is packing like this particular seller was (and who had the attitude they did when called out on it) wouldn't last long selling here anyway.  In all of my years, the boards have had a way of weeding out the bad seeds.  If a rule like that was added, though, it's not going to affect the people who know what they're doing here when it comes to packing.

Sorry you had to deal with that headache, Jason, and thanks for the heads-up (though we might not see the seller here again, it's good to have this as a reminder just in case they make some sort of return in the future).

Sorry Chisox, I won't buy from you because you pack too well and it takes too long to unpack the books   Just kidding