New York City Comic Book Only Show Sunday March 12

[Comcasthawk]

Yeah, I've seen you there a few times. Maybe next time I will introduce myself.

[langur88]

I have to say I was greatly disappointed in this show. All the talk for months was about how there would be a room full of just comics. What a let down when I entered the room and saw 5 or 6 dealers with "average" books and the rest were of the "fleamarket" type of dealer. Lots of junk boxes with .25 and .50 cents books in them. This show was a total sham and there is no reason to ever go again.

 

"60 dealer table", my [embarrassing lack of self control]. How can any of you give props to a show like this is beyond me.

 

It doesn't even come close to the local Philadelphia at the Ramada Inn.

 

You must have gone to a different show. And I have been to the Philly show so leave it alone. Derek is a friend. I know most of the promoters on the East Coast and we get along fine. Mike Carbonaro attended and Neat Stuff had a table at the show. I will be set up at the Big Apple show in two weeks.

 

Nobody ever said 60 dealer tables. There were 75 tables with nothing but comics, comic creators and some comic related toys. That would be the definition of "room full of comic books and related". Please feel free to count them next time. There were no bootlegs of any type and the creators were supposed to get 1/3 of the space. This was always the plan. All creator space was free. We always have free space for local creators. Our shows have never been all dealers and they never will be. There were zero quarter comics although some people like them. I don't set others budgets and I cannot set the dealers prices. This is America after all. Free market economy? What the heck is an average book? There were zero flea market dealers by which I assume you mean dirty. There was no merchandise in the aisle. There were no dealers sitting in the aisles. The show was clean and organized. There were a few hundred thousand discount comics which everybody was happy with. It was cheap to get in and you had free passes. There were many Golden Age to modern age comic books. We have never run a more positive show in ten years and have never had so many people take the time to have something nice to say on their way out. The fans enjoyed the show and on average stayed a very long time.Your comments are the first negative comments that we have received out of a few hundred.

 

Okay. That having been said. I will bite anyway.

 

What were you looking for at the show? The high grade, 75% off golden age stuff?

The 10 cent comics? This weeks hot comic? Stuff that you can turn over on ebay?

Comics to CGC and turn over?

 

Please enlighten me.

 

We always "welcome" feedback.

[langur88]

To me this is really the timing though. You can't have a show (not saying Dave is at fault here, has to get his show off the ground at some point) two weeks after Javits and expect dealers etc. to come out.

 

You are correct. Many dealers got caught between NYCC and the Big Apple in three weeks but we had to start somewhere. I already have more dealer commitments for May 7th which is evenly spaced between Big Apples. 99.9 % of the March 12 attendees went away happy but we will keep working to bring that percentage up.

[Foolkiller]

Dave,

 

As I probably noted to you at some point, it really was the timing that hurt this more than anything else, and I am somewhat afraid that any one area, even New York, will have trouble long term supporting three shows for comics.

 

While the local Philly show is a nice show, the problems often expressed by collectors and dealers alike is getting people through the door, and it could be easily remedied by moving the show downtown. I would gladly pay $5 admission (and would never take a free pass or get in early) to move that show downtown to improve it for many people as well as potentially expand the dealers' area.

 

Specific to your show, I think there's a lot of people who will appreciate the smaller atmosphere and more intimate interaction, but I think the key to succeeding in your show will be perhaps bringing out or enticing the smaller dealers lets say from New Jersey or dealers who may not make a regular circuit, come to your event. That is to say, we know at BA we will see Motor City, Harley Yee and Metro, and while it'd be important to have Bob Storms aboard and Ted VanLiew for the HG inventory, along with say, Metro not even set up, but Vincent just present... getting a bunch of dollar book guys there is actually what is almost more important.

 

If you catered just to the limited mindset (I'm not being critical here) of the people on these boards for the HG only inventory or GA/SA/BA only guys, then you have a hard time getting more and more people through the door. To me, most collectors who are younger are looking for volume and nice books just to add to their collection. Talk to Ben Lichtenstein and Joe Conzolo (who both do BA from time to time) about coming over and bringing their amazing dollar stock. They can do a smaller set up than normal, but since Ben's been known to do a local Jersey show, perhaps he can be convinced to help boost bringing a different clientele in.

 

Just my two cents Dave.

[langur88]

Dave,

 

As I probably noted to you at some point, it really was the timing that hurt this more than anything else, and I am somewhat afraid that any one area, even New York, will have trouble long term supporting three shows for comics.

 

While the local Philly show is a nice show, the problems often expressed by collectors and dealers alike is getting people through the door, and it could be easily remedied by moving the show downtown. I would gladly pay $5 admission (and would never take a free pass or get in early) to move that show downtown to improve it for many people as well as potentially expand the dealers' area.

 

Specific to your show, I think there's a lot of people who will appreciate the smaller atmosphere and more intimate interaction, but I think the key to succeeding in your show will be perhaps bringing out or enticing the smaller dealers lets say from New Jersey or dealers who may not make a regular circuit, come to your event. That is to say, we know at BA we will see Motor City, Harley Yee and Metro, and while it'd be important to have Bob Storms aboard and Ted VanLiew for the HG inventory, along with say, Metro not even set up, but Vincent just present... getting a bunch of dollar book guys there is actually what is almost more important.

 

If you catered just to the limited mindset (I'm not being critical here) of the people on these boards for the HG only inventory or GA/SA/BA only guys, then you have a hard time getting more and more people through the door. To me, most collectors who are younger are looking for volume and nice books just to add to their collection. Talk to Ben Lichtenstein and Joe Conzolo (who both do BA from time to time) about coming over and bringing their amazing dollar stock. They can do a smaller set up than normal, but since Ben's been known to do a local Jersey show, perhaps he can be convinced to help boost bringing a different clientele in.

 

Just my two cents Dave.

 

You are seeing the bigger picture. Sometimes attendees have tunnel vision and only see exactly what they are looking for. Its not hard to get dealers. Its hard to get "good" dealers. You know what I mean. My job is to keep a balance of comic related creators and collectibles to reflect what the attendees want. The vast majority were there to buy discounted comic books to read or to meet creators. I have spoken to Ben and will again this week. I promise that there will be more Golden/Silver age dealers May 7th. I also hope a few of the Philly veteran dealers of older comics get involved. One day show. Much less expense.

[Foolkiller]

Getting Al Stoltz to do a NY show is a pipe dream. Gary Platt, however, may well be convinced since he is all for supporting the hobby and a great guy all around. Plus, he seems to have a broad stock and does very well even at smaller shows as there are customers of his who will go exclusively to see him. Perhaps convincing Jeff Weaver might also convince Al if it were easy load in and out. Both are good guys who would boost the show's profile.

 

I should talk to Ben some time this week as well and just mention to him that this is another easy show he could do...

[langur88]

Getting Al Stoltz to do a NY show is a pipe dream. Gary Platt, however, may well be convinced since he is all for supporting the hobby and a great guy all around. Plus, he seems to have a broad stock and does very well even at smaller shows as there are customers of his who will go exclusively to see him. Perhaps convincing Jeff Weaver might also convince Al if it were easy load in and out. Both are good guys who would boost the show's profile.

 

I should talk to Ben some time this week as well and just mention to him that this is another easy show he could do...

 

I appreciate the support. I will be set up in Philly (I know. Essington) this Sunday with 60 long boxes of quality 50 cent and dollar comics and giving out passes for May 7th in New York City. I have heard good things about Mr. Platt and Mr. Stoltz and will speak to them Sunday. Does Ben set up in Philly/Essington?

It was an easy load in and out Sunday. No stairs or elevators. One level from street to show floor. Easy to get on the Henry Hudson and out of town. (57th St. connects directly to the HH) Close clean bathrooms, food and bar. There are always a few dealers that I have to poke with a sharp stick with load in/out but I personally helped a few dealers with this never mind the always present hand truck challenged. Things went smoothly.

See you Sunday.

[dgillock]

I can certainly understand why some posters might have been let down by this show, esp if they were looking for higher-end books. But, they shouldn't forget that there is a fairly large segment of the hobby that is looking for something a little different. I know several really "part-time" collectors who like the idea of attending a convention, but would never drop $15 to $25 dollars just to walk through the door to stare at comics that they can't afford. This is the sort of show that they would be happy to attend (if they knew about it) and frankly, a bunch of 25cent/50cent bins and VGish SA/BA would excite the heck out of them. We might poo-poo these sorts of books, but they are the core of many collections.

 

Those of us who post to this board are living in a pretty rarified realm of the hobby. Few people, even many who would call themselves "comic collectors" are ever going to invest the amount of time and money we do on average. We moan and grown about how few young people are involved with the hobby, but at the same time we are going to disparage a low-cost, smaller convention that is accessible to people who don't have hundreds of dollars to spend everytime they go comic shopping? That just doesn't make any sense to me. Are there better little conventions in the Northeast? Sure, probably... but for the time being this is what we have in NYC, so I say let's make it work. I don't see anyone else attempting it right now. Is a show like this going to appeal to everyone? No, of course not, just as some of the giant industry-oriented shows have less appeal to back issue collectors.

 

We already have several very large, very well attended coventions around the country every year. There are also numerous little "day cons" tucked away in different locals, but NYC has been lacking one for a while now. The Big Apples' fine, but frankly the $15 admission cost is going to keep a lot of people away- in particular, younger collectors with less money to spend. It seems to me that they are attempting to make it more of an event-show everytime they do it and the door cost has gone up to reflect this. If you are shopping for dollar books, $15 goes a long way. If you want to get these folks away from Ebay and into the social environment of a show, keeping the admission low is an important first step. I welcome a little show that doesn't necessarily appeal to the higher-end of the hobby. I think that this show needs some fine tuning, but for a first effort in a city reknowned for being difficult to host a show in, I think it was a success.

[Comcasthawk]

I have to say I was greatly disappointed in this show. All the talk for months was about how there would be a room full of just comics. What a let down when I entered the room and saw 5 or 6 dealers with "average" books and the rest were of the "fleamarket" type of dealer. Lots of junk boxes with .25 and .50 cents books in them. This show was a total sham and there is no reason to ever go again.

 

"60 dealer table", my [embarrassing lack of self control]. How can any of you give props to a show like this is beyond me.

 

It doesn't even come close to the local Philadelphia at the Ramada Inn.

 

You must have gone to a different show. And I have been to the Philly show so leave it alone. Derek is a friend. I know most of the promoters on the East Coast and we get along fine. Mike Carbonaro attended and Neat Stuff had a table at the show. I will be set up at the Big Apple show in two weeks.

 

Nobody ever said 60 dealer tables. There were 75 tables with nothing but comics, comic creators and some comic related toys. That would be the definition of "room full of comic books and related". Please feel free to count them next time. There were no bootlegs of any type and the creators were supposed to get 1/3 of the space. This was always the plan. All creator space was free. We always have free space for local creators. Our shows have never been all dealers and they never will be. There were zero quarter comics although some people like them. I don't set others budgets and I cannot set the dealers prices. This is America after all. Free market economy? What the heck is an average book? There were zero flea market dealers by which I assume you mean dirty. There was no merchandise in the aisle. There were no dealers sitting in the aisles. The show was clean and organized. There were a few hundred thousand discount comics which everybody was happy with. It was cheap to get in and you had free passes. There were many Golden Age to modern age comic books. We have never run a more positive show in ten years and have never had so many people take the time to have something nice to say on their way out. The fans enjoyed the show and on average stayed a very long time.Your comments are the first negative comments that we have received out of a few hundred.

 

Okay. That having been said. I will bite anyway.

 

What were you looking for at the show? The high grade, 75% off golden age stuff?

The 10 cent comics? This weeks hot comic? Stuff that you can turn over on ebay?

Comics to CGC and turn over?

 

Please enlighten me.

 

We always "welcome" feedback.

 

 

Maybe I expected more from this show, but for a NY city show I was not impressed.

[langur88]

I have to say I was greatly disappointed in this show. All the talk for months was about how there would be a room full of just comics. What a let down when I entered the room and saw 5 or 6 dealers with "average" books and the rest were of the "fleamarket" type of dealer. Lots of junk boxes with .25 and .50 cents books in them. This show was a total sham and there is no reason to ever go again.

 

"60 dealer table", my [embarrassing lack of self control]. How can any of you give props to a show like this is beyond me.

 

It doesn't even come close to the local Philadelphia at the Ramada Inn.

 

You must have gone to a different show. And I have been to the Philly show so leave it alone. Derek is a friend. I know most of the promoters on the East Coast and we get along fine. Mike Carbonaro attended and Neat Stuff had a table at the show. I will be set up at the Big Apple show in two weeks.

 

Nobody ever said 60 dealer tables. There were 75 tables with nothing but comics, comic creators and some comic related toys. That would be the definition of "room full of comic books and related". Please feel free to count them next time. There were no bootlegs of any type and the creators were supposed to get 1/3 of the space. This was always the plan. All creator space was free. We always have free space for local creators. Our shows have never been all dealers and they never will be. There were zero quarter comics although some people like them. I don't set others budgets and I cannot set the dealers prices. This is America after all. Free market economy? What the heck is an average book? There were zero flea market dealers by which I assume you mean dirty. There was no merchandise in the aisle. There were no dealers sitting in the aisles. The show was clean and organized. There were a few hundred thousand discount comics which everybody was happy with. It was cheap to get in and you had free passes. There were many Golden Age to modern age comic books. We have never run a more positive show in ten years and have never had so many people take the time to have something nice to say on their way out. The fans enjoyed the show and on average stayed a very long time.Your comments are the first negative comments that we have received out of a few hundred.

 

Okay. That having been said. I will bite anyway.

 

What were you looking for at the show? The high grade, 75% off golden age stuff?

The 10 cent comics? This weeks hot comic? Stuff that you can turn over on ebay?

Comics to CGC and turn over?

 

Please enlighten me.

 

We always "welcome" feedback.

 

 

Maybe I expected more from this show, but for a NY city show I was not impressed.

 

The show was what it was advertised as if not more as we had several unanounnced guests including Arnold Drake, Irwin Hasen and Luis Dominguez. If your collecting interest comprises a tiny niche of the comic book universe such as high grade pre-code horror then we cannott have ten tables of it. We include all comic books, not just what you like. I still do not know what your problem was? If you could be specific without the insulting tone of your post maybe you have a point. So far you have been wrong on each point. Do you know what a sham is? Your post is a sham. Very little truth. What is the rationale for your statements? Apparently the facts did not influence anything. The only way that I can make the show better is if I get attendee feedback. What were you looking for?

[the blob]

1 dealer seemed to have about 1/3 of the room with 50 cent and $1 books. Another guy had what seemed like 1/4 of the room with 50 centers and $1 books And it seemed like there were like 3 or 4 other dealers and some guests. Mind you, I like to hunt through the bins, so I'm not complaining.

 

It would be a little more interesting if the guy who had what seemed like 15 tables of bargain bin stuff was 3 or 4 dealers with a little bit more variety (even if bargain bin stuff too). But I understand the "bird in the hand" theory --- if the guy is willing to pay for 15 tables and you know he isn't going to stiff you, why mess around and try to find a bunch of guys to buy 2-4 tables each? And I also understand that buying 2-3 tables to sell 50 cent/$1 books isn't worth the bother/trip/hassle/time for a lot of dealers.

 

A bigger room (if the Hilton has one) and a few more dealers would have been nice. As a local, not a big deal for me, but if I was schlepping in from Jersey......

[dgillock]

1 dealer seemed to have about 1/3 of the room with 50 cent and $1 books. Another guy had what seemed like 1/4 of the room with 50 centers and $1 books And it seemed like there were like 3 or 4 other dealers and some guests. Mind you, I like to hunt through the bins, so I'm not complaining.

 

It would be a little more interesting if the guy who had what seemed like 15 tables of bargain bin stuff was 3 or 4 dealers with a little bit more variety (even if bargain bin stuff too). But I understand the "bird in the hand" theory --- if the guy is willing to pay for 15 tables and you know he isn't going to stiff you, why mess around and try to find a bunch of guys to buy 2-4 tables each? And I also understand that buying 2-3 tables to sell 50 cent/$1 books isn't worth the bother/trip/hassle/time for a lot of dealers.

 

A bigger room (if the Hilton has one) and a few more dealers would have been nice. As a local, not a big deal for me, but if I was schlepping in from Jersey......

 

I think that this is a good summation on something that could be improved at this show and I remember this being a problem with some smaller shows I would go to in the 80s. If one concern is increasing variety, maybe it would make sense to limit the amount of space a single dealer can occupy to a certain # of tables. This seems especially true if the organizers are already finding themselves with a waiting-list for tables at the next event. Getting as many dealers as possible interested in setting up at this show will help it expand over time. If from the very beginning, much of the space is dominated by one or two people (esp if it's the same one or two each time the show happens), folks might quickly loose interest. Having a couple of huge set-ups at a show like this also (in my mind) can make some smaller dealers wary of setting up because they might feel like they will seem invisible amongst they larger set-ups. Something to consider IMO.

[Comcasthawk]

I have to say I was greatly disappointed in this show. All the talk for months was about how there would be a room full of just comics. What a let down when I entered the room and saw 5 or 6 dealers with "average" books and the rest were of the "fleamarket" type of dealer. Lots of junk boxes with .25 and .50 cents books in them. This show was a total sham and there is no reason to ever go again.

 

"60 dealer table", my [embarrassing lack of self control]. How can any of you give props to a show like this is beyond me.

 

It doesn't even come close to the local Philadelphia at the Ramada Inn.

 

 

Here's my 1st post about this show.......................no where do I insult anyone personally, justmy honest opinion about the lack of dealers. I was looking forward to a "comic book only" show and what I saw was not that!!

 

If anyone feels "insulted" it should be me because I came from the Jersey shore thinking there would be more dealers than there were.

 

One more thing, just because I was given a free pass does not mean I will not give my honest opinion about the show.

 

If there were more dealers it would have been great, but I don't think there were enough of them.

 

I liken this show to a mall show, at best.

 

Sorry, but that's how I feel. Maybe the next one will be better. I hope it is because I am not wishing a failure to this show, just some improvements.

[Comcasthawk]

I have to say I was greatly disappointed in this show. All the talk for months was about how there would be a room full of just comics. What a let down when I entered the room and saw 5 or 6 dealers with "average" books and the rest were of the "fleamarket" type of dealer. Lots of junk boxes with .25 and .50 cents books in them. This show was a total sham and there is no reason to ever go again.

 

"60 dealer table", my [embarrassing lack of self control]. How can any of you give props to a show like this is beyond me.

 

It doesn't even come close to the local Philadelphia at the Ramada Inn.

 

You must have gone to a different show. And I have been to the Philly show so leave it alone. Derek is a friend. I know most of the promoters on the East Coast and we get along fine. Mike Carbonaro attended and Neat Stuff had a table at the show. I will be set up at the Big Apple show in two weeks.

 

Nobody ever said 60 dealer tables. There were 75 tables with nothing but comics, comic creators and some comic related toys. That would be the definition of "room full of comic books and related". Please feel free to count them next time. There were no bootlegs of any type and the creators were supposed to get 1/3 of the space. This was always the plan. All creator space was free. We always have free space for local creators. Our shows have never been all dealers and they never will be. There were zero quarter comics although some people like them. I don't set others budgets and I cannot set the dealers prices. This is America after all. Free market economy? What the heck is an average book? There were zero flea market dealers by which I assume you mean dirty. There was no merchandise in the aisle. There were no dealers sitting in the aisles. The show was clean and organized. There were a few hundred thousand discount comics which everybody was happy with. It was cheap to get in and you had free passes. There were many Golden Age to modern age comic books. We have never run a more positive show in ten years and have never had so many people take the time to have something nice to say on their way out. The fans enjoyed the show and on average stayed a very long time.Your comments are the first negative comments that we have received out of a few hundred.

 

Okay. That having been said. I will bite anyway.

 

What were you looking for at the show? The high grade, 75% off golden age stuff?

The 10 cent comics? This weeks hot comic? Stuff that you can turn over on ebay?

Comics to CGC and turn over?

 

Please enlighten me.

 

We always "welcome" feedback.

 

 

Maybe I expected more from this show, but for a NY city show I was not impressed.

 

The show was what it was advertised as if not more as we had several unanounnced guests including Arnold Drake, Irwin Hasen and Luis Dominguez. If your collecting interest comprises a tiny niche of the comic book universe such as high grade pre-code horror then we cannott have ten tables of it. We include all comic books, not just what you like. I still do not know what your problem was? If you could be specific without the insulting tone of your post maybe you have a point. So far you have been wrong on each point. Do you know what a sham is? Your post is a sham. Very little truth. What is the rationale for your statements? Apparently the facts did not influence anything. The only way that I can make the show better is if I get attendee feedback. What were you looking for?

 

 

How can one's opinion be a sham....?? As for the "truth", there were not as many dealers as I thought there would be. Now, that may be something I was "wrong" about, but it's not a lie.

 

As for making the show better, here's my suggestion: books, books, and more books!!!

 

It took me about an hour to do a general look around the room, so maybe that's the bug up my butt. I don't know.

 

What I do know is I traveled very far to this show and I was disappointed and unimpressed with it. Does that mean the show can't improve....?? No, I'm sure it will. Does that mean I won't go again..?? No, I'm sure I will return for a 2nd go-around.

 

Maybe I should not have said the word "sham"(and I apologize if you were offended), but I really felt like you were advertising a show that would have more comics and no "side-shows", like porn stars and videos and the like.

 

I guess my expectations were high and wrong, but I am on your side and only wish you the best in future shows.

 

Your failure would not make me happy.

[langur88]

How can one's opinion be a sham....?? As for the "truth", there were not as many dealers as I thought there would be. Now, that may be something I was "wrong" about, but it's not a lie.

 

As for making the show better, here's my suggestion: books, books, and more books!!!

 

It took me about an hour to do a general look around the room, so maybe that's the bug up my butt. I don't know.

 

What I do know is I traveled very far to this show and I was disappointed and unimpressed with it. Does that mean the show can't improve....?? No, I'm sure it will. Does that mean I won't go again..?? No, I'm sure I will return for a 2nd go-around.

 

Maybe I should not have said the word "sham"(and I apologize if you were offended), but I really felt like you were advertising a show that would have more comics and no "side-shows", like porn stars and videos and the like.

 

I guess my expectations were high and wrong, but I am on your side and only wish you the best in future shows.

 

Your failure would not make me happy.

 

It would not make me happy either.

 

You may want to go for the Websters on the word sham.

 

The number of dealers is irrelevant. Its the amount of "stuff" in the room. Nobody cares about dealers. Its what they bring to the table, literally. The dealers that came had tons of books which was the plan until I had a better idea of load in and out. Less dealers but just as many books There were no bootlegs, wrestlers, porn stars or washed up B actress/models. Comics, comics and more comics. No "sideshows". Just comic books. Its a comic book show. The second show is always better as the first is more of a dry run to get the kinks out with the venue. I still do not know what you collect but whatever it is there will be more of it next time. I will be set up at the Philly (Essington)Ramada comic book show this Sunday so say hello and I hope to see you in New York May 7th.

[Aman619]

getting angry at a customer really drums up business, huh?

[langur88]

getting angry at a customer really drums up business, huh?

 

 

Who's angry? This is a forum and we are having a discussion. and you?