Giant Size X-Men #1 Just Graded 9.9. It Begins..... 7 7

[NewWorldOrder]

On 6/8/2024 at 7:00 PM, Iconic1s said:

I think the whole “buy the book, not the label” argument is really pointless at this point.

CGC is supposed to be the “most trusted” third party grader… yet you can’t trust the label!  The label is supposed to be the whole point (of paying for grading) because YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO TRUST IT!

The book can be “bought” without the label, why have to make an excuse for inconsistent grading by reminding collectors to not “buy the label?”  Some defects may be more or less desirable to individual collectors but the grade from these guys is supposed to be undisputed.

CGC has become more and more hopeless the past few years.  I (and many others) have spent years searching for books in the right grade… now we see, through CGC’s actions, that their grading criteria / philosophy can be changed at their discretion.  It would be different if a book comes along that is truly that remarkable specimen that hits that 9.9 / 10 grade and blows everyone’s minds.  But what is actually happening is they loosened their grading to start making 9.9 the new 9.8. 

Instead of getting  off we remind each other to “ buy the book.” 

Well then why don't you test that theory.

Send in a random assortment of CGC 9.8's (maybe a min of 25) and see how many CGC 9.9's or 10.0's you now get.

The results I would imagine would probably be zero.

I am up to one CGC 9.9 so far this year out of 700+ books submitted with mostly an emphasis of the comics being in high grade that were submitted. 

So when as a CGC Dealer do I get to see my uptick from what you said that I highlighted in bold above?

[NewWorldOrder]

On 6/10/2024 at 6:20 PM, Poekaymon said:

I can't respect any 9.9 with a white spine.

I am sure the hobby will get over that in time.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 6/7/2024 at 10:58 PM, Tony S said:

There are certainly people like what you describe. But there is another reason. There are many in the hobby that have little in the way of grading skills. They can't "buy the book not the label" because they lack the experience to see defects and assess their likely impact on the grade of the book. And restoration. It's easy for experienced collectors to miss small amounts of professional restoration and tiny amounts of amateur. 

So for a good number of newbies and amateurs - "buy the book not the label" really should not be a thing. New collectors or legally blind collectors or just lacking enough experience collectors should be able to count on professional grading and encapsulation is an equalizer. What's on the label is what it is. 

True, but some are acting as if CGC is misgrading all books now.  Point being from what you detailed above CGC is still is safest place for the novice collector or someone who can't grade to safely buy books from.  The average collector is still better off buying CGC graded books over rolling the dice with buying raw comics from random LCS's, dealers and other collectors when they have no inherit grading skills to fall back on.

In my opinion being a professional grader comes in handy the most for the books you don't buy versus the ones you do. I would encourage anyone who is a long-term back issue collector to make it a point to try to learn at least the basics of grading.

Edited June 12 by NewWorldOrder

[Kevin76]

I've been submitting books to CGC since 2000, I've gotten 4 9.9s in that time. 0 10s  

Harley Quinn 1 (2000)

Origins 1

Batman The Damed 1 - both covers  

People think 9.9s are going to become the new 9.8, and that 9.8s will tank in price are beyond delusional.  Most 9.9s that get graded are post 2000-now    

[Iconic1s]

On 6/11/2024 at 7:42 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So when as a CGC Dealer do I get to see my uptick from what you said that I highlighted in bold above?

You are not a big enough deal… is your name Heritage or Comicconnect?  No?  Then don’t expect any favors.

[Stefan_W]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:04 PM, Kevin76 said:

I've been submitting books to CGC since 2000, I've gotten 4 9.9s in that time. 0 10s  

Harley Quinn 1 (2000)

Origins 1

Batman The Damed 1 - both covers  

People think 9.9s are going to become the new 9.8, and that 9.8s will tank in price are beyond delusional.  Most 9.9s that get graded are post 2000-now    

I've sent in many hundreds of comics, and probably well over a thousand now, and I continue to send orders in. I have never had a 9.9 or a 10.0. Out of all of those books there is only one (an ASM 238) that I would send back in to see if I could get a 9.9, but I would do it knowing the odds are against that happening. Sadly, I sold the book a few years ago so I will never have the chance to find out if I was right about it having 9.9 potential. 

Edited June 12 by Stefan_W

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:04 PM, Kevin76 said:

I've been submitting books to CGC since 2000, I've gotten 4 9.9s in that time. 0 10s  

Harley Quinn 1 (2000)

Origins 1

Batman The Damed 1 - both covers  

People think 9.9s are going to become the new 9.8, and that 9.8s will tank in price are beyond delusional.  Most 9.9s that get graded are post 2000-now    

I also received the vaunted grades for Batman Damned 1 - both covers. However, CGC was giving out 9.9 and 10 on that book like it was candy on Halloween. Apart from that, I am batting zero on 9.9 and/or 10 despite submitting around five comic books that I know were 9.9; but what do I know that CGC does not, or is that the other way around? Well, better 9.8 than 9.6. 

[joeypost]

I have gotten back 2 10.0 books. Both were the faux leather covers. As far as 9.9 book it may be a few dozen but they were all modern books with the exception of 2 Infinity Gauntlet books. With the exception of a Hulk 400 none of the 10.0’s and 9.9’s were mine. 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 6/11/2024 at 7:38 PM, Iconic1s said:

You are not a big enough deal… is your name Heritage or Comicconnect?  No?  Then don’t expect any favors.

Truth is usually in the middle, so do I think CGC is giving out CGC 9.9's and 10.0's like candy? No

Are we going to be seeing a slight uptick in CGC 9.9's and 10.0's on post 1975 books? Yes

Are we going to be seeing a moderate uptick in CGC 9.9's and 10.0's on post Ultra modern books? Yes

The fact we as a hobby does not have a ASM #300 in a CGC 10.0 is joke.  There should be at least 10-25 of them on the census and at least a 100 in CGC 9.9.  Even more so on Wolverine Limited Series #, CGC 9.9 census should not be 41 it should be 410!

Again the slight grading goal post allowance curve should have been done 10-15 years ago. I am happy its finally here!

Edited June 12 by NewWorldOrder

[Iconic1s]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:41 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

The fact we as a hobby does not have a ASM #300 in a CGC 10.0 is joke. 

Statistically speaking you are probably correct (and I DO agree with you) but it’s hard to state that as a fact.  If (big IF) existing books were graded fairly and consistently it’s also possible that the 9.9 and 10’s just weren’t submitted yet.  If they start popping up now though I’d be skeptical in light of all this hoopla over 9.9 “pre-screen” possibilities, Matt Nelson’s comments on this subject, tons of Wolverine 9.9’s, as well as the highly publicized book that started this thread.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 6/12/2024 at 10:01 AM, Iconic1s said:

Statistically speaking you are probably correct (and I DO agree with you) but it’s hard to state that as a fact.  If (big IF) existing books were graded fairly and consistently it’s also possible that the 9.9 and 10’s just weren’t submitted yet.  If they start popping up now though I’d be skeptical in light of all this hoopla over 9.9 “pre-screen” possibilities, Matt Nelson’s comments on this subject, tons of Wolverine 9.9’s, as well as the highly publicized book that started this thread.

Correct just my opinion, and the chatter I have had with others.

CGC just like any company will change.  So for me if what I am seeing is correct this change is happening ever so slightly.

I have been double checking all my books that I am submitting since earlier this year for what I call "strong 9.85's" aka slam dunks with no defects what so ever on Bronze and copper, and if so I would hold them back.  So far zero.  And none of the ones I submitted came back 9.9 besides one and that book I didnt care to hold it back etc.  I know with most CGC 9.8's you can have a one or two very small spine ticks. (Yes I know there are examples showing many, but you get my overall point here )

What I think is happening is if you have a strong 9.4 you are getting the benefit of a CGC 9.6, and if you have a strong 9.6 you are getting the benefit of CGC 9.8 in some cases.  Not all the the time, but more than before.

The goal of CGC is make money as I am sure you and everyone is well aware.

Just watch from the 7:30 to 9:40 minute mark for @blazingbob thoughts.  Which I agree with and I was standing right next to him at the time of the interview.

Edited June 12 by NewWorldOrder

[Stefan_W]

On 6/12/2024 at 12:41 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

The fact we as a hobby does not have a ASM #300 in a CGC 10.0 is joke.  There should be at least 10-25 of them on the census and at least a 100 in CGC 9.9.  Even more so on Wolverine Limited Series #, CGC 9.9 census should not be 41 it should be 410!

Again the slight grading goal post allowance curve should have been done 10-15 years ago. I am happy its finally here!

Just to add to this point, when ASM 300 came out everyone knew it was a big deal. My local comic stores had signup sheets where people can claim a number of copies, and some people were buying 10 of them - one to read, and the rest directly into bags and boards. If there was ever a book from that era where you would expect a bunch of 9.9s and a few 10s it is that one. The caveat is that shipping processes were more, um, prehistoric I guess would be the right word, and some direct to storage books may have already had flaws that occurred in transit to local dealers. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:14 AM, Stefan_W said:

Just to add to this point, when ASM 300 came out everyone knew it was a big deal.

[Chip Cataldo]

On 6/12/2024 at 3:45 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 6/12/2024 at 12:45 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

On 6/12/2024 at 11:14 AM, Stefan_W said:

Just to add to this point, when ASM 300 came out everyone knew it was a big deal.

 

 

 

[Stefan_W]

On 6/14/2024 at 1:50 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

 

 

Right, your numbers showing an increase of 25% for ASM 300 compared to the issues immediately before and after totally refutes my statement about how everyone knew ASM 300 was a big issue, which lead to my comic store to put out sign up sheets so people can pre-order copies. 

I would have gotten away with it too if it wasnt for you meddling kids. 

[Silver Surfer]

On 6/12/2024 at 10:25 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

Correct just my opinion, and the chatter I have had with others.

CGC just like any company will change.  So for me if what I am seeing is correct this change is happening ever so slightly.

I have been double checking all my books that I am submitting since earlier this year for what I call "strong 9.85's" aka slam dunks with no defects what so ever on Bronze and copper, and if so I would hold them back.  So far zero.  And none of the ones I submitted came back 9.9 besides one and that book I didnt care to hold it back etc.  I know with most CGC 9.8's you can have a one or two very small spine ticks. (Yes I know there are examples showing many, but you get my overall point here )

What I think is happening is if you have a strong 9.4 you are getting the benefit of a CGC 9.6, and if you have a strong 9.6 you are getting the benefit of CGC 9.8 in some cases.  Not all the the time, but more than before.

The goal of CGC is make money as I am sure you and everyone is well aware.

Just watch from the 7:30 to 9:40 minute mark for @blazingbob thoughts.  Which I agree with and I was standing right next to him at the time of the interview.

I don’t understand that one guys logic (apologies if he is a boardie). How is it okay to SS a book if Kirby’s wife signed Jack’s signature after he passed? As a personal piece of nostalgia, sure if that’s what you like, but as a SS book this should be a non starter. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 6/14/2024 at 11:44 AM, Stefan_W said:

Right, your numbers showing an increase of 25% for ASM 300 compared to the issues immediately before and after totally refutes my statement about how everyone knew ASM 300 was a big issue, which lead to my comic store to put out sign up sheets so people can pre-order copies. 

I would have gotten away with it too if it wasnt for you meddling kids. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 6/12/2024 at 2:14 PM, Stefan_W said:

Just to add to this point, when ASM 300 came out everyone knew it was a big deal. My local comic stores had signup sheets where people can claim a number of copies, and some people were buying 10 of them - one to read, and the rest directly into bags and boards. If there was ever a book from that era where you would expect a bunch of 9.9s and a few 10s it is that one. The caveat is that shipping processes were more, um, prehistoric I guess would be the right word, and some direct to storage books may have already had flaws that occurred in transit to local dealers. 

I remember that the owner of Sunshine Comics in Miami, FL, unfortunately long gone after it became Sunshine Games, told customers, including me, "Amazing Spider-Man 300 is out!" or something along that line. I purchased a great many copies at SC, A&M Comics, also in Miami, at newsstands in Miami, including Adolph's in Coral Gables (Miami, for all intents and purposes). My copies are all sitting in acid free storage in a climate controlled environment in another state.

Of course, just because one LCS owner told me such does not mean notification was widespread as I do not recall the owner of A&M telling, at least, me about 300.

I'll end by saying that I used to purchase "tons" of copies of many of the "crop" that was published. Much of it is presently still "crop." I wish I could fertilize my garden with them.

Edit: I looked up Adolph's because that store was great. Its name was Adolph's Readers World, 2301 Ponce de Leon Blvd., Coral Gables, FL. I probably purchased thousands of books there, including Savage Sword, which I love. Wonderful memories of that store.

Edited June 15 by Tec-Tac-Toe
Adolph's