Silver Age Comics Are Still Falling ? 1 1

[tth2]

On 3/29/2024 at 11:51 PM, Hepcat said:

On 3/29/2024 at 5:02 PM, tth2 said:

I'd be willing to bet the 145 9.8 copies, 369 9.6 copies, 567 9.4 copies, 758 9.2 copies and 1033 9.0 copies of Incredible Hulk 181 in the census that comics are fungible and there is a deep market. 

To label collectors they're fungible, but we comic collectors are interested in and buy the comic not the label.

I'm really enjoying these trips down memory lane to the 20th century! 

[tth2]

On 3/29/2024 at 11:56 PM, Hepcat said:

Stocks pay dividends, and those of well managed companies deliver dividend growth.

I am really enjoying this trip down memory lane to the 20th century, except this time it's to the 1950s!  

[Hepcat]

Well I certainly like to see a history of dividend growth going back to at least the 1950's!

Incidentally, whatever possessed you to sell in 2007(?) the high grade collection of Flash, Justice League of America and other DC titles you had painstakingly acquired in the 1980's and 1990's? (I bid on some of those Flash issues from 1961-62 and was absolutely annihilated.) Did you completely lose interest in those titles or what?

[tth2]

On 3/30/2024 at 1:34 PM, Hepcat said:

 

Incidentally, whatever possessed you to sell in 2007(?) the high grade collection of Flash, Justice League of America and other DC titles you had painstakingly acquired in the 1980's and 1990's? (I bid on some of those Flash issues from 1961-62 and was absolutely annihilated.) Did you completely lose interest in those titles or what?

The collection had stagnated as very few new books were coming to market, and I was getting blown out of the water on those few that did come to market.  Also, I was becoming disenchanted with CGC because of pressing and wasn't happy at the prospect of my books becoming middle of the road copies, so I decided that rather than fighting the market, I would sell into it.  For the Flashes, that turned out to be a good decision because the prices realized remained the high water mark for a long time, even though as expected the Census ended up getting seriously diluted.  For example, the Western Penn Flash 129 in 9.4 is now one of many 9.4 copies and below many 9.6 and 9.8 copies that have subsequently been slabbed by CGC.   

[Hepcat]

You're certainly right about how tough it was (and still is) to track down high grade copies of pre-1963 DC comics.

On 3/29/2024 at 5:02 AM, tth2 said:

I'd be willing to bet the 145 9.8 copies, 369 9.6 copies, 567 9.4 copies, 758 9.2 copies and 1033 9.0 copies of Incredible Hulk 181 in the census that comics are fungible and there is a deep market. 

Incidentally, why did you pick Hulk 181 as your example? Is that the pre-1970 comic with the largest 9.0+ CGC census numbers?

Edited March 31 by Hepcat

[tth2]

On 3/31/2024 at 12:09 AM, Hepcat said:

Incidentally, why did you pick Hulk 181 as your example? Is that the pre-1970 comic with the largest 9.0+ CGC census numbers?

It's not pre-1970, but I knew the number of high grade copies in the Census was immense.  It wouldn't surprise me if it is by far the most common 5-figure comic.

I could've also picked any of the 1968 #1s (Cap 100, Iron Man 1, Hulk 102, Sub-Mariner 1), or really many post-1964 Marvel SA books.  The point being that I believe the SA Marvel market is both deep and fungible.  

As I often like to say, the only thing stopping anyone from putting together a 9.4 SA ASM run within a couple of weeks is whether they can write the check.

Edited March 31 by tth2

[Hepcat]

On 3/30/2024 at 11:52 PM, tth2 said:

It's not pre-1970, but I knew the number of high grade copies in the Census was immense.  It wouldn't surprise me if it is by far the most common 5-figure comic.

I could've also picked any of the 1968 #1s (Cap 100, Iron Man 1, Hulk 102, Sub-Mariner 1), or really many post-1964 Marvel SA books. 

Yes of course. I'd mixed up Hulk 181 (Wolverine intro) with Hulk 102. These things happen to us older collectors....

On 3/30/2024 at 11:52 PM, tth2 said:

As I often like to say, the only thing stopping anyone from putting together a 9.4 SA ASM run within a couple of weeks is whether they can write the check.

Well on that point we're agreed.

Edited March 31 by Hepcat

[Hepcat]

On 3/30/2024 at 11:52 PM, tth2 said:

The point being that I believe the SA Marvel market is both deep and fungible.  

But you realize that you're saying a 9.4 is a 9.4 is a 9.4 (at least for Silver Age Marvels). That flies in the face of the oft repeated "Buy the comic not the label" conventional wisdom on this board.

Edited March 31 by Hepcat

[tth2]

On 3/31/2024 at 11:26 PM, Hepcat said:

But you realize that you're saying a 9.4 is a 9.4 is a 9.4 (at least for Silver Age Marvels). That flies in the face of the oft repeated "Buy the comic not the label" conventional wisdom on this board.

1.  These Boards represent only a small minority of the market, and based on transactions in the market, I think it's very clear that people are buying the label and not the comic.

2.  Based on many of the miswrapped/mis-cut monstrosities proudly posted on these Boards, I'd say that the "buy the comic not the label" group is also only a small minority of the folks on these Boards. 

[Hepcat]

On 3/31/2024 at 11:33 PM, tth2 said:

Based on many of the miswrapped/mis-cut monstrosities proudly posted on these Boards....

[Spiderturtle]

On 3/31/2024 at 8:33 PM, tth2 said:

2.  Based on many of the miswrapped/mis-cut monstrosities proudly posted on these Boards, I'd say that the "buy the comic not the label" group is also only a small minority of the folks on these Boards. 

How about marvel chipping?  Prices much stronger on non MC copies.  The number on the label cannot hide that marvel chipping 

[Hepcat]

Are you saying that CGC does not penalize for Marvel chipping?

[tth2]

On 4/1/2024 at 2:16 PM, Spiderturtle said:

On 4/1/2024 at 11:33 AM, tth2 said:

2.  Based on many of the miswrapped/mis-cut monstrosities proudly posted on these Boards, I'd say that the "buy the comic not the label" group is also only a small minority of the folks on these Boards. 

How about marvel chipping?  Prices much stronger on non MC copies.  The number on the label cannot hide that marvel chipping 

I don't follow transactions in lower grade books, so MC isn't too relevant to the books I track.  But if the market is indeed penalizing books with MC that are getting higher grades from CGC than are warranted, then that's good to hear.  

[TheComicsPreacher]

On 3/29/2024 at 5:14 AM, MAR1979 said:

No matter how much my SP500 fund rises or drops, I'm not moving a cent of it into comics 😁

MCU no longer fueling the back issue fire as it did for near 15 years and burst from the bubble have caused drove after drove to leave hobby.

Settle in folks,  attrition in collectors and price dips and or stagnation will reign until at least decades end.

P.S. 

Of course there will always be exceptions or outliers or hot book de jour, I'm talking about the 60-00s Marvel market as a whole.

This post does apply to SA - please ignore that portion of my sig

This. Spot on imo - but will be fun to see how this plays out in the next five years. There is so much uncertainty, but if I were forced to make a prediction, I would posit that prices continue to fall and level off around 2030..and after that who knows. The next big spike in prices will probably not occur until the youth of the early 2000s starts to bring in big paychecks and gets nostalgic about the days of the MCU on the big screen. Although I have always wondered will that generation want to collect the original comics - or movie memorabilia?

[Hepcat]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:39 PM, TheComicsPreacher said:

The next big spike in prices will probably not occur until the youth of the early 2000s starts to bring in big paychecks and gets nostalgic about the days of the MCU on the big screen. Although I have always wondered will that generation want to collect the original comics - or movie memorabilia?

I don't think there are many comic collectors in the movie crowd. Quite simply I don't think many of the kids whose introduction to Batman was through the 1966-68 TV show became lifetime comic collectors. I think the lifetime collectors came from the contingent of pre-existing comic buyers.

Edited April 4 by Hepcat

[TheComicsPreacher]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:00 PM, Hepcat said:

I don't think there are many comic collectors in the movie crowd. Quite simply I don't think many of the kids whose introduction to Batman was through the 1966-68 became lifetime comic collectors. I think the lifetime collectors came from the contingent of pre-existing comic buyers.

I suspect that is true for the generation that grew up in the 60’s, when comic book movies and TV shows were not existent and/or pretty god awful. For that generation, the comics books themselves were the best medium through which  to enjoy the characters.

I am not sure the same can be said of those who were born in the last 20 to 30 years, when comic books themselves have comparatively gone downhill, whereas movie quality has comparatively gone way up - starting with the original superman movies, Batman movies, and then, of course, the introduction of the MCU.

but that’s just my two cents - very curious to hear what others think

[Spiderturtle]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:00 PM, Hepcat said:

I don't think there are many comic collectors in the movie crowd. Quite simply I don't think many of the kids whose introduction to Batman was through the 1966-68 became lifetime comic collectors. I think the lifetime collectors came from the contingent of pre-existing comic buyers.

I grew up in the 80's, going to 7-11 to get my comics.  i was introduced to batman through that TV.  been a comic collector my whole life.  If i can live another 40 years, then i plan on collecting comics for the next 40 years

[TheComicsPreacher]

On 4/3/2024 at 10:13 PM, Spiderturtle said:

I grew up in the 80's, going to 7-11 to get my comics.  i was introduced to batman through that TV.  been a comic collector my whole life.  If i can live another 40 years, then i plan on collecting comics for the next 40 years

Well, there goes that pet theory!