Concerns Regarding the Price for Previously Authenticated Comics by JSA & Future Price Changes at Events by Creators 1 1

[Darth Yoda]

Hello all.

I read and re-read the published article, "Signed. Sealed. Delivered. CGC and JSA Now Offering Combined Services for Comics!" that was posted on May 7, 2024. There were plenty of questions I had that were answered in this article, but it also left me with concerns regarding signed comic books that have already been authenticated by JSA at events and possible permanent price changes that could negatively affect fans who go to these events to get their comic books signed.

Signed. Sealed. Delivered. CGC and JSA Now Offering Combined Services for Comics! | CGC (cgccomics.com)

Below, I have copied and pasted a paragraph that stood out to me from this article: 

"If your autographed collectible has a JSA WPP sticker on it, you should select “CGC Grading” as your submission type and “JSA Autograph Authentication” as an add-on service when filling out the CGC online submission form. JSA autograph authentication fees still apply because JSA must reverify the authenticity of the autograph and JSA WPP sticker. If the autograph and JSA WPP sticker are genuine, your comic will be automatically encapsulated with the CGC Signature Series label, which will identify the signer’s name and the date signed. This information, along with a notation that the signature was witnessed by JSA, will also be displayed in the grader notes on the CGC website."

- One of my concerns regarding the paragraph above from the FAQ section is the pricing to get these already verified comics submitted to CGC for encapsulation. Last September, I attended a Comic-Con and had a number of comic books signed by artists and writers. Rather than have them witnessed by a CGC affiliate, I went and had them verified by JSA where they implanted the JSA WPP sticker on the inside cover of the comic book as well as providing a basic certification card that has a certification number for JSA's database. For each of those books I had verified, it cost me $10. That number may not seem like a lot, but if you had a number of signed books as I had on that day, it totaled out to a big amount to get authenticated. I understand as well that it was a personal choice to get these books authenticated by JSA, but at the time, it was feasible considering it was an affordable option versus using a CGC affiliate that charges $10-$20 per signature depending on the person(s) signing and an additional $10-$20 per book for their witnessed services. Let's not forget the $45 fee it costs to submit books to CGC for a signature series label and the $20 return shipping.

So, let's get to the point of my concern regarding CGC's new policy when it comes to getting these authenticated books submitted for re-verification and grading. In my opinion, paying $25 to CGC to have JSA "re-verify" the authenticity of the autograph and their JSA WPP sticker is excessive because the customer already paid $10 for their services at the event it was originally authenticated. The certification number on the WPP sticker should be readily available in JSA's database to verify the authenticity (assuming that it is organized and logged) and the price should be much, much lower than $25. 

A suggestion I have is that there should be two options in the "Add-On" section for JSA signatures. The first option, "JSA Autograph Authentication", should be for comic books that do not have the WPP sticker, and the fee would be $25 since the signature will be authenticated for the first time. Then a new category for comic books that have the WPP sticker inside the book should be called "JSA Authenticated Signature". The second option would inform CGC that JSA had previously verified the signature at a previous event since the WPP sticker is located inside the book. This particular tier should cost between $5-$10 since the customer already paid $10 for the authentication at the event. Now, this is just a suggestion, and in no way am I demanding this to be official, but it doesn't feel right to have to pay $25 for a service that has already been provided.

- My other concern is this new feature that has been added to the grading process: JSA Autograph Grade. I'm not sure how exactly CGC and JSA are going to go about grading the signature whether it is by the neatness of the signature, the type of utensil used, etc., but my concern is if this new feature becomes paramount in terms of valuing graded comic books, I can imagine how it can negatively affect fans that go to these events to get their comic books signed by their favorite creators. Now, I am aware that this new feature is optional, but with the addition of JSA, it is my strong belief that creators and their teams will take advantage of this opportunity to increase prices on their signatures for capital gain (meaning that creators might take this as an opportunity to provide less favorable signatures for fans unless the fans are paying a premium with the intent for signature grading). I am all for supporting the creators of the comic industry, but fans should not have to suffer increased prices because of this new feature.

Again, these are just concerns that have been floating around in my head since the release of this article and I wanted to voice it on here. I understand that my second concern is simply hypothetical, but history has proven time and time again that when companies and people can capitalize on making money, they will do so 100% of the time.

Edited May 12 by Darth Yoda

[Josh Haynes]

This 100%

I agree with what was said above. I really think CGC should re-consider there position with JSA with these point in mind.
I also would suggest new pricing. We all know times are getting harder, and for CGC to make a power move by cutting prices would be a much needed victory coming off there latest transgressions.
I would suggest the following:

1. CGC Blue Label - $25 | NEW PRICE  $20
2. CGC Sig Series - $45 | New Price $35
3. CGC Sig Series + JSA  - $50 | New Price $30
4. JSA Fee - $25 | New Price $10 ea. Additional Sig $5
5. CGC Shipping - $40 | New Price $10 - $12 insured to send - Return Shipping from CGC $5
6. CGC Handling Fee - $5 | New Price $0
7. 1 Book $25 + 1 Sig $25 + Handling $5 + Shipping $35  = $90  | New Price $40 to $45
   
   In conclusion Submissions for modern books Signature JSA series $40-$45 per book is a fair and reasonable price.
   I also believe CGC should offer Bulk discounts when submitting 15, 20, 25, 30 and so on at a very reduced price. 
   
   I hope CGC will take this into consideration. 
   Thank you for reading.

 

[revat]

what?

Do you guys understand CGC is a for profit business owned by a larger collectibles conglomerate? with corporate shareholders?  And that largely CGC is a near monopoly, even moreso with CGC SS?

I'm sure CGC is happy to take the cash, but I would bet this isn't about moderns signed at cons last year and verified by JSA and trying to get those submitted to CGC.  I think they're perfectly happy to punish people who didn't initially choose CGC SS, they're gonna do the same level of work whether they were JSA or not, and there's no competitor to undercut directly (like with the crossover discounts on previously slabbed other brand slabs).  Otherwise customers might be encourage to use other verifiers in the short term with the hope that CGC will acquire those verifiers in the future.

This is about the substantial amount of items signed by artists/celebrities/writers who can no longer sign books who either too sick, old, or dead, and trying to monetize THAT part of the market.

Add that to the fact that a major price shift (even lowering) after the announcements would make people trust the new process even less than they already do, to much uncertainty and chaos in the background.  It would feel desperate instead of authoritative.

 

[ThothAmon]

On 5/10/2024 at 10:43 PM, Darth Yoda said:

Hello all.

I read and re-read the published article, "Signed. Sealed. Delivered. CGC and JSA Now Offering Combined Services for Comics!" that was posted on May 7, 2024. There were plenty of questions I had that were answered in this article, but it also left me with concerns regarding signed comic books that have already been authenticated by JSA at events and possible permanent price changes that could negatively affect fans who go to these events to get their comic books signed.

Signed. Sealed. Delivered. CGC and JSA Now Offering Combined Services for Comics! | CGC (cgccomics.com)

Below, I have copied and pasted a paragraph that stood out to me from this article: 

"If your autographed collectible has a JSA WPP sticker on it, you should select “CGC Grading” as your submission type and “JSA Autograph Authentication” as an add-on service when filling out the CGC online submission form. JSA autograph authentication fees still apply because JSA must reverify the authenticity of the autograph and JSA WPP sticker. If the autograph and JSA WPP sticker are genuine, your comic will be automatically encapsulated with the CGC Signature Series label, which will identify the signer’s name and the date signed. This information, along with a notation that the signature was witnessed by JSA, will also be displayed in the grader notes on the CGC website."

- One of my concerns regarding the paragraph above from the FAQ section is the pricing to get these already verified comics submitted to CGC for encapsulation. Last September, I attended a Comic-Con and had a number of comic books signed by artists and writers. Rather than have them witnessed by a CGC affiliate, I went and had them verified by JSA where they implanted the JSA WPP sticker on the inside cover of the comic book as well as providing a basic certification card that has a certification number for JSA's database. For each of those books I had verified, it cost me $10. That number may not seem like a lot, but if you had a number of signed books as I had on that day, it totaled out to a big amount to get authenticated. I understand as well that it was a personal choice to get these books authenticated by JSA, but at the time, it was feasible considering it was an affordable option versus using a CGC affiliate that charges $10-$20 per signature depending on the person(s) signing and an additional $10-$20 per book for their witnessed services. Let's not forget the $45 fee it costs to submit books to CGC for a signature series label and the $20 return shipping.

So, let's get to the point of my concern regarding CGC's new policy when it comes to getting these authenticated books submitted for re-verification and grading. In my opinion, paying $25 to CGC to have JSA "re-verify" the authenticity of the autograph and their JSA WPP sticker is excessive because the customer already paid $10 for their services at the event it was originally authenticated. The certification number on the WPP sticker should be readily available in JSA's database to verify the authenticity (assuming that it is organized and logged) and the price should be much, much lower than $25. 

A suggestion I have is that there should be two options in the "Add-On" section for JSA signatures. The first option, "JSA Autograph Authentication", should be for comic books that do not have the WPP sticker, and the fee would be $25 since the signature will be authenticated for the first time. Then a new category for comic books that have the WPP sticker inside the book should be called "JSA Authenticated Signature". The second option would inform CGC that JSA had previously verified the signature at a previous event since the WPP sticker is located inside the book. This particular tier should cost between $5-$10 since the customer already paid $10 for the authentication at the event. Now, this is just a suggestion, and in no way am I demanding this to be official, but it doesn't feel right to have to pay $25 for a service that has already been provided.

- My other concern is this new feature that has been added to the grading process: JSA Autograph Grade. I'm not sure how exactly CGC and JSA are going to go about grading the signature whether it is by the neatness of the signature, the type of utensil used, etc., but my concern is if this new feature becomes paramount in terms of valuing graded comic books, I can imagine how it can negatively affect fans that go to these events to get their comic books signed by their favorite creators. Now, I am aware that this new feature is optional, but with the addition of JSA, it is my strong belief that creators and their teams will take advantage of this opportunity to increase prices on their signatures for capital gain (meaning that creators might take this as an opportunity to provide less favorable signatures for fans unless the fans are paying a premium with the intent for signature grading). I am all for supporting the creators of the comic industry, but fans should not have to suffer increased prices because of this new feature.

Again, these are just concerns that have been floating around in my head since the release of this article and I wanted to voice it on here. I understand that my second concern is simply hypothetical, but history has proven time and time again that when companies and people can capitalize on making money, they will do so 100% of the time.

 

[Gator Guru]

On 5/13/2024 at 4:15 PM, revat said:

what?

Do you guys understand CGC is a for profit business owned by a larger collectibles conglomerate? with corporate shareholders?  And that largely CGC is a near monopoly, even moreso with CGC SS?

I'm sure CGC is happy to take the cash, but I would bet this isn't about moderns signed at cons last year and verified by JSA and trying to get those submitted to CGC.  I think they're perfectly happy to punish people who didn't initially choose CGC SS, they're gonna do the same level of work whether they were JSA or not, and there's no competitor to undercut directly (like with the crossover discounts on previously slabbed other brand slabs).  Otherwise customers might be encourage to use other verifiers in the short term with the hope that CGC will acquire those verifiers in the future.

This is about the substantial amount of items signed by artists/celebrities/writers who can no longer sign books who either too sick, old, or dead, and trying to monetize THAT part of the market.

Add that to the fact that a major price shift (even lowering) after the announcements would make people trust the new process even less than they already do, to much uncertainty and chaos in the background.  It would feel desperate instead of authoritative.

 

Honestly, with how much signing is taking place the SS label is the new blue label. I wouldn’t touch a book unless someone that signed it has passed. With each private signing announcement the signed copies of books continue to depreciate ever so rapidly. Ill concede that getting a signed 9.8 with the new SS label from someone that never signs has started to sound more appealing as the census numbers of current SS books continues to multiply.

[postersandstuff]

"or dead"

Reminds me of a "Op Bullpen" forger that joked Mantle was still signing post death , big mistake as FBI agent sitting right next to him ;) 

[A-DONIS]

On 5/10/2024 at 11:38 PM, Josh Haynes said:

This 100%

I agree with what was said above. I really think CGC should re-consider there position with JSA with these point in mind.
I also would suggest new pricing. We all know times are getting harder, and for CGC to make a power move by cutting prices would be a much needed victory coming off there latest transgressions.
I would suggest the following:

1. CGC Blue Label - $25 | NEW PRICE  $20
2. CGC Sig Series - $45 | New Price $35
3. CGC Sig Series + JSA  - $50 | New Price $30
4. JSA Fee - $25 | New Price $10 ea. Additional Sig $5
5. CGC Shipping - $40 | New Price $10 - $12 insured to send - Return Shipping from CGC $5
6. CGC Handling Fee - $5 | New Price $0
7. 1 Book $25 + 1 Sig $25 + Handling $5 + Shipping $35  = $90  | New Price $40 to $45
   
   In conclusion Submissions for modern books Signature JSA series $40-$45 per book is a fair and reasonable price.
   I also believe CGC should offer Bulk discounts when submitting 15, 20, 25, 30 and so on at a very reduced price. 
   
   I hope CGC will take this into consideration. 
   Thank you for reading.

 

New Member, one post......ok......

[DougC]

The problem with cutting prices is that CGC doesn't have any need too, they control the market.

CGC would rather have 10 people pay $100 and be exclusive, than 100 people pay $10 and be inclusive. The overall dichotomy of the situation is that making customers happy with a more approachable price point will anger investors who demand higher and higher year over year profit.

CGC does not care about your financial situation as there are thousands of people behind you throwing money at them.

I am sure one day the train will come off the rails, but that day isn't on the horizon yet.

[RockMyAmadeus]