cgc updated census observations

[CosmicBob]

CGC ships everything back registered and insured by USPS, unless you request otherwise. So insurance is included in the retrun postage fees.

[murph0]

Just because someone isn't on the internet has nothing to do with whether or not they use CGC. It's heavily advertised in all comic collecting mediums. #4 of your reasoning is a big point I've been trying to make for a while now. Despite the fact there may be books out there ungraded, what is NM has drastically changed in the past 3 years.

Do you know many serious collectors who haven't been involved in 5 years? How can they be "serious" if they're not even involved? I don't trust this whole idea of someone investing money into something and then just completely ignoring it. Who does that? Invest a couple thousand dollars and then just toss it off in a dark corner to never be thought about again? I'd say probably very very few people..

 

Brian

[Mushroom]

"And when it comes to Silver Age, isn't it amazing how many "New" pedigree collections have been discovered in just the past ten years.And these pedigrees have multiple copies of some books."

 

 

That is a mighty assumption that all pedigrees mean HG books. I collect Bethlehem copies (a respected pedigree) where in general the DC SA's are more commonly in the 6.0 - 8.5 range.

 

As to whether or not there is as many DC SA HG as Marvel the simple answer is "NO".

 

There is a smaller number of collectors for DC and in general DC non keys do not perform as well as Marvel non keys in HG but the census clearly shows that even for DC keys there is only a small number out there, and when it comes to keys DC collectors will spend as much on a HG as anyone.

[sfilosa]

You really believe that 80% of high grade Marvels have been certified? What makes you believe that?

 

Do you believe most long term collector/dealers have had their personnel collection CGC'd. Probably not?

 

On one thread, everyone is afraid that there are 100's of copies of every Marvel issue from the Mile High 2 collection.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

[Mushroom]

I assume that you are not responding to my post ..........................

[valiantman]

How does the census look for key SA DC counts compared to an "equivalent"

SA Marvel issue?

 

For instance, what book would you say is the "Marvel-equivalent" of Batman 232?

How do the CGC numbers compare?

 

 

[sfilosa]

I stopped collecting comics for several years, because dealers grading sucked.

 

Am I a serious collector who put books away for years. YES!

 

 

I have sent my frist round of books to be graded by CGC.

 

My next round will include high grade copies (mean VF or better in most cases VF/NM or better).

 

Amazing Spider-Man #14

Avengers #1

Avengers #4

Daredevil #1

Strange Tales #110

Tales of Suspense #39

 

 

And several other books that might end up being the highest graded copy

[Mushroom]

Let me start out by saying that my comments around DC SA tend to refer to the 60's. Having said that....your point around DC and Marvel in the 70's is valid. An equivalent to Ra's Al Ghul in ASM terms would probably be #101 (Morbius), both are minor keys and both came out in 71. When you compare them on the census they are very similar in terms of the number of high grades and the total number graded.

 

However, what if we compare Bat #155 (ist SA Penguin) 1963 with only 7 in HG (9.2 being the highest) and a total of 37 graded against Amazing #15 (Ist Kraven) 1964 with 35 in HG (2 in in 9.6) and 177 graded. Why such a large disparity between DC and Marvel?

[valiantman]

Mushroom, you're starting to build a strong case for scarcity of HighGrade Silver DC...

but I don't know if any of the first 25 issues of Amazing Spider-man should be used.

Chances are a few more of those have been to CGC simply as "early issues"

of a top title.

 

If, instead of Spidey #15, we used Tales to Astonish #44 (1963),

we see that only 39 copies have been CGC graded, with 10 at 9.0 or higher...

which is almost identical to Batman #155 on the total graded,

but a little higher on the HG copies.

 

So, the question is...would TTA #44 be a fair comparison?

 

[aardvark88]

There are almost NO hi-grade runs of silver DC floating around b/c there were no warehouse finds compared to silver Marvels. Also, most of the silver DC keys started about 3 to 5 yrs b4 their Marvel counterparts. Higher attrition rate or less hoarding in 1956.

That is why PGC Mint asking price on Show 34 cgc 9.4 1st Atom is outrageously high compared to silver Marvel keys.

[Arty]

There are many collectors who completed their high grade (VF/NM or better) marvel runs way before CGC existed. Collectors who never plan to sell their books.

 

Grading a complete high grade run costs thousands of dollars. If you don't intend to sell, why spend so much just for knowing "true" grades of your books?

[valiantman]

What percent of high grade SA Marvel would you estimate came from

warehouses/pedigrees vs. "regular collectors"?

 

What would be the same breakdown for SA DC Comics?

[Mushroom]

Ok..firstly I wouldn't compare TTA to DC's flagship as to importance nor would I put Wasp up against the Penguin, but having said that if we look at the census for each we still see that more than 12% of the graded copies of #44 are at 9.4 where #155 does not even have a 9.4.

 

I believe that more copies of Batman #155 were sold and subsequently retained than TTA #44 and yet TTA #44 has more copies graded. Just goes to show how many Marvel collectors there are.

[valiantman]

Maybe this has already been debated a million times...

but what do you think is the main reason there are so many

more Silver Age Marvel collectors than Silver Age DC?

 

Personally, I think it might be as simple as issue numbering/history.

 

If you were looking to buy one comic book...just one...

would you pick up the superhero book number #155,

or would you pick up the superhero book number #15?

 

It seems like the #15 makes you "feel" like you're seeing a bigger piece

of the "whole story" up to that point...while #155 is just a drop in a bucket.

 

Sure, Batman #1 should always be more valuable than Spider-man #1,

but when it comes to Batman #155 vs. Spider-man #15...it's not that easy.

Or even, Batman #156 vs. Spider-man #16...which would you prefer?

 

Marvel in 1960s was the birth of Marvel.

Pick a comic and it's something new and never-before-seen.

 

DC in the 1960s was the 25th anniversary of the birth of DC.

Pick any comic, and you've missed 20+ years of stories.

 

It's pretty easy for me to see why Silver Age Marvel has so many more fans.

[OldGuy]

"what do you think is the main reason there are so many

more Silver Age Marvel collectors than Silver Age DC?"

 

Because Marvel books don't suck?

[Joanna]

I don't trust this whole idea of someone investing money into something and then just completely ignoring it. Who does that? Invest a couple thousand dollars and then just toss it off in a dark corner to never be thought about again? I'd say probably very very few people.

 

I did it. I was an extremely active collector from around '92 through '96. I had money, and I wasn't afraid to spend it. In '97, I lost a lot of my interest and despite thousands of dollars spent on comics (from golden age to modern), I simply stopped buying books and never looked at the ones I had. I kept the bulk in the closet, though other longboxes were scattered around the apt. due to space.

 

Years passed. I began selling stuff on ebay in 2002, beginning with trading cards. After a few months, I ran out of trading cards that were worth anything, so I decided to sell comics. I had thousands of them, so I figured it would bring in some money. I had no idea CGC existed (I kept wondering what that referred to when I looked up auctions). And I had no idea that the old method of grading (i.e. if a new issue is purchased, put in a bag and board and never read, then you can call it NM/Mint) was a thing of the past. My first couple of auctions were of modern (early 90's) books and I proudly proclaimed my books to be "mint". Surprisingly, people bought them and agreed with me.

 

When I finally found CGC on the web (to figure out what in blazes that was) I found this forum and learned what had happened in the years I was gone.

 

Out of all those thousands of books, I've had 3 graded. Does that mean I had no NM books? Nope, I sold some that should've gone to CGC (and probably will through someone else) but I can't afford the service. I just don't have the capital to ship books off, pay big fees, wait for weeks, etc. Instead, I sell raw and take what I can get.

 

Most of my older books shouldn't have been CGC'd. But there were some that should've been. They're not on the census.

 

-- Joanna

[aardvark88]

Would say 40% of the hi-grade silver Marvels came from warehouse finds: eg. Robt Bell/Koch-Dolgoff-Koch, Mile High 2, Montreal (Canada) Marvel horde.

Only small bundles of DC specs in 1966 up. No huge remainder warehouse.

[greggy]

Because Marvel books don't suck?

 

Explains the difficulty in finding copies of Fast Willie Jackson!

[OldGuy]

[greggy]

Sweet! I know your sore spot!