cgc updated census observations

[Mushroom]

"If you were looking to buy one comic book...just one...

would you pick up the superhero book number #155,

or would you pick up the superhero book number #15?"

 

You are talking to a DC fanatic. I would rather have the #155 than Kraven. There is no rhyme or reason to it.

[Foolkiller]

Although I'm not in the age group that grew up with the Silver Age (or even really remember the bronze age) my primary reason for enjoying Marvel over DC was because Marvel has remained consistently more enjoyable since I can remember. When I started putting money into back issues and learning more of the history of Marvel, it was obviously that company that I put my money into for Silver and Bronze books. Now that DC has sort of caught up, and I've owned at some point most of the Marvel books, I look for DC stuff a little more often. It also seems like DC's stuff is available in archive format, so it's often easy to at least read or look at their silver/golden age history.

[murph0]

I'm speaking of these supposedly "hoarded" keys that people spent a couple grand on and then just tossed them off into a dark closet. I'm sorry but if you spend a couple thousand on a book, it doesn't just suddenly become uninteresting (unless of course it drops in value by a large percentage)

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

Murph, I stopped buying new comics in 1983, or sometime after Byrne and Miller left, started up in 1986 again and stopped in 1991 due to the speculators.

 

While not a long-time collector like some on here, each time I stopped buying new, I tossed my longboxes in the pile and didn't give them a second thought. Multiple Bronze Age keys (except Hulk 181 - long story), X-Men 94-143 up the ying yang, a few longboxes of Silver, some Gold, and tons of supposedly worthless books from the 1970's that mushroomed in the 1990's-Now.

 

I think it really comes down to your cash flow. If you're doing well, then why would you worry about comics that are sitting in the corner? In my experience there are three things that bring collections out of the woodwork:

 

Death, Financial Problems, and Retirement.

 

Other than that, why would you bother carting out your comics to sell?

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have to agree. What people don't seem to realize, is that "COLLECTORS" don't SELL their comics. I've collected comics on and off for about twenty years, and probably own about 2000 or so. I have yet to submit any of my books to CGC(although I own about 30 'slabbed' books). I think it's illogical to believe that the MAJORITY of high-grade books have been submitted. I wouldn't be surprised if MOST of the true NM gems will never be submitted, as most hardcore collectors would not allow anyone else to HANDLE them.

[sfilosa]

I'm telling you.

 

I have Mile High, White Mountain, Circle 8, Cosmic Airplane, Gaines, etc. pedigree copies of some books plus as I said before high grade Marvel keys and I DIDN'T even look at them for 3 or 4 years. None of these are in the census yet. They sat in my safe and I only opened that once or twice a year to get my Passport out when I took my family on a cruise.

 

I put my money in the stock market (made a ton, then lost a ton). I got sick and tired of paying NM prices for VF comic books.

 

And don't you think some of these long time dealers have lots of nice Gold and Silver keys just sitting in a bank vault? Unless they need the money, why sell (or certify).

 

I'm not saying there are 50 more AF #15 in NM condition. I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me if there were 50 more AF #15 in VF/NM or better condition that haven't been certified yet.

 

And when it comes to late Silver and Bronze Age books, there are probably lots of comic book stores (who don't really try to push the back issue market) that have NM or better books in their boxes of comics. While they might overgrade most books, I bet they have some NM books that would actually get a NM+ or better grade.

 

 

Time will tell.

 

 

[Bronty]

Good point about dealer's personal collections. Bound to be some gems in there!

[COI]

I think it really comes down to your cash flow. If you're doing well, then why would you worry about comics that are sitting in the corner?

 

I think if you're doing well, you're obviously good with money. I would bet that a lot of the books that have surfaced since CGC's arrival were originally in private collections where the owner had no intentions of selling. But even if your well off(and especially in some cases) a true business-minded individual would not pass up on certain opportunites to cash in on the unheard of multiples CGC's fetch, particularly for higher end books. I've spoken to many collectors who have actually downgraded their copies to make cash. If they sent in a higher end book, and it came back as a 9.6, the would sell it, pick up a 9.4, and have tons of money to spare. Even the truest collectors have their price, and even those that are well off are not impervious to this.

 

I think the only items that have a chance of truly remaining locked in collections for decades are those irreplaceables. Books like the Mile High Action 1, for example, or even some Silvers that are truly scarce in grade, like early FF's.

[COI]

And don't you think some of these long time dealers have lots of nice Gold and Silver keys just sitting in a bank vault? Unless they need the money, why sell (or certify).

 

So that they can capitalize and make huge money. I don't care how rich you are, since when has capitalism had a limit?

 

I'm not saying they're stupid not to sell ALL their books, but if they have these supposed treasure troves of HG key issues, why not sell some and make big $$$?

 

I agree that there may be some nice collections out there, but I doubt dealers have these mythological storages or hoards. Their own collections, maybe, but not hoards of high end material.

[aardvark88]

Most comicshop or convention dealers unloaded 1/2 of their personal collection during the downturn of 1995-96 to save their ongoing business. Would say the latter 1/2 of their personal collection was slabbed by Cgc & unloaded at Heritage, Mastro, or on eBay for crazy multiples.

Comics are cyclical & some forumites are already saying the Cgc peak was LAST summer. Perhaps the peak for RAW comics will be this spring & summer due to the jgreene effect.

[Mister_Comics]

I have over 10,000 plus books. They range from the golden age to the present. Near complete Marvel and DC silve age. I've barely skimmed the surface of my collection. Way too many to grade at once. Way too costly. Most of what has been graded get high grades. Not aways the highest but up there with the best. I'm in no hurry to get them all graded. No plans to sell right now. And I know two other guys that have good size collections that won't even consider getting thier comics graded. They just don't care about the grading issue. So when I hear that there are no more high grade comics to be slabbed I just laugh. Maybe its just that there are no more high grade comics being sent in for grading.

[COI]

But like I said, private collections and hoards are 2 different things. Yours is obviously a collection you compiled for yourself and seem insistant to keep. But a dealer hoard is logically existant to eventually make money on. So I can't see a dealer in the current market holding onto a hoard(again, NOT their own collection) of high end material with all this flurry of activity on high grade books. As a businessman, it just isn;t logical. If they've been hoarding, waiting for the day to seriously cash in, the day has arrived.

[THE_BEYONDER]

So really, the question is: ARE THERE MORE 'HOARDS' OR 'COLLECTIONS'?

[Aman619]

There are lots of us collectors with near complete Silver Age collections, with plenty of duplicates. in high grade, that have not been sent in for grading. Ive got thousands of comics. Not too many are the HIGHEST GRADED copies, but if I were to get them all graded, and others on this thread did too, it would sure affect the census!!!

 

And yes, we are collectors so we buy and KEEP. And they sit in closets or wherever. We dont take them out and play with them like Barbie dolls!! We own them and that's cool enough. And we dont sell them because of the the 3 reasons to sell JC listed. Dont have to, Dont want to either.

 

I was thinking just this afternoon about starting a thread like this, asking how many Silver Ages keys in 9.2 or better everyone thinks are still out there ungraded.....

[Aman619]

whats the threshold for HOARD compared with COLLECTION?

[COI]

So really, the question is: ARE THERE MORE 'HOARDS' OR 'COLLECTIONS'?

 

 

Of the higher end stuff, I would definetly say more collections. I've heard a lot of talk of high grade Marvel stock being depleted over the last 2 years as a result of submission and subsequent sales.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think it should have something to do with the REASON for having the books in the first place....

[COI]

whats the threshold for HOARD compared with COLLECTION?

 

I think the difference may be more about intent than content. I would consider a hoard as an ammassing of books believed to have growth potential with the intention of cashing them in at some point for profit.

 

A collection on the other hand is something amassed with the intention of locking them up with no thoughts on selling, regardless of whether there are multiples or not.

 

But that's just my take on it.

[COI]

was thinking just this afternoon about starting a thread like this, asking how many Silver Ages keys in 9.2 or better everyone thinks are still out there ungraded.....

 

This I can agree with. I've only been seriously collecting vintage books for the last 2 years, and I have tons of raw books that would grade 9.0-9.2 between 1966-1973.

[Aman619]

this distinction between "pure collecting" and its "evil twin" "collecting with an eye for profit down the road" keeps coming up since I started hanging around here.... Im kinda frustrated with it because I come out as one of the heathens, as oppposed to the true collectors. BUT. I've read and loved comics for over 40 years. They have been a major pasttime for me, and I've amassed a veritable hoard of comics, both off the newsstands and from dealers and shows.

 

But as I stated before, once I started buying back issues, it has ALWAYS been with an eye to getting my money out someday, while at the same time getting the fun of owning some super rare, expensive or cool books. Which makes me, I suspect, in your eyes, NOT a true collector.

 

And I just dont agree that there is a more pure, or more "correct" way to collect comics than what I have done.....

 

If you want to collect for pure FUN...pick something that has NO VALUE (except to YOU) and certainly doesn't have an industry built around it with 33 years of Price Guides! Im not directing this to you, AK, just responding to your post to get this off my chest....I'll sit down now..