Couple Gives Away $500,000 Worth Of Comic Books 2 2

[Aman619]

Isn’t the XMen 1 color variant the darker green corner box that we talk about every now and then as just a printing effect.  And I visited the Melrose store many times the past few decades.  Isn’t that the flagship store?

[Aman619]

I watched that YouTube rant... wow, he verged on the political, like this guys decision to donate to his alma mater was a rich vs poor thing.  To me, this is about a collector -- like us -- who ended up with a cherished collection of comics.  And faced with what to do with them, given their poor condition and relatively low value plus the effort to unload it all, decided to give it away where it would stay intact (if only to have them be buried away somewhere in boxes never to be looked at again).  80,000 comics totaling $500K is 3 bucks a book. That sounds high.  Looks like he has let's say 60K in ungraded mid to low grade keys.  Id he opted to sell them to a dealer, the price would be a fair number for the keys, and take it or leave it for all the rest.  And who would buy the rest -- 79,000 comics, many Bronze Age and newer NOT in high grade?  

Bottom line unless he needed the money (and the number would not be life-changing)  I too would donate them..  Aside from inflating his "producer" career (IMDB lists a few short films made probably after he left or was bought out at HBO) -- no harm in that really -- he seems like a decent guy -- like us -- working out how to handle his life work/hobby best.

 

[ThothAmon]

On 6/23/2024 at 10:13 AM, namisgr said:

He's also unaware that the value to the donor of the tax write-off is a small fraction of the value of the collection on the open market, making it plain to anyone with a brain that the donor's primary motivation could not have been financial.

With respect, I’m not sure how you can conclude this without a lot more facts. Do you have any idea what valuation was given?  You do realize the appraiser was hired by the donor and not UPenn?  What books and their conditions were donated? How much of a deduction the donor took or what his motivation was?  To call it a scam without evidence is irresponsible for sure but unless you know the above you  have no idea who, besides the university, is really benefiting from this generosity. 

[sd2416]

On 6/25/2024 at 2:16 PM, Aman619 said:

I watched that YouTube rant... wow, he verged on the political, like this guys decision to donate to his alma mater was a rich vs poor thing.  To me, this is about a collector -- like us -- who ended up with a cherished collection of comics.  And faced with what to do with them, given their poor condition and relatively low value plus the effort to unload it all, decided to give it away where it would stay intact (if only to have them be buried away somewhere in boxes never to be looked at again).  80,000 comics totaling $500K is 3 bucks a book. That sounds high.  Looks like he has let's say 60K in ungraded mid to low grade keys.  Id he opted to sell them to a dealer, the price would be a fair number for the keys, and take it or leave it for all the rest.  And who would buy the rest -- 79,000 comics, many Bronze Age and newer NOT in high grade?  

Bottom line unless he needed the money (and the number would not be life-changing)  I too would donate them..  Aside from inflating his "producer" career (IMDB lists a few short films made probably after he left or was bought out at HBO) -- no harm in that really -- he seems like a decent guy -- like us -- working out how to handle his life work/hobby best.

 

Wouldn't 500,000/80,000 be 6.25 a book?

[namisgr]

On 6/25/2024 at 4:10 PM, ThothAmon said:

With respect, I’m not sure how you can conclude this without a lot more facts. Do you have any idea what valuation was given?  You do realize the appraiser was hired by the donor and not UPenn?  What books and their conditions were donated? How much of a deduction the donor took or what his motivation was?  To call it a scam without evidence is irresponsible for sure but unless you know the above you  have no idea who, besides the university, is really benefiting from this generosity. 

I can conclude this from the article published in the Pennsylvania Gazette and the story about the collection being acquired by Penn in the Philadelphia Inquirer.   The J. I. Kislak Center for Special Collections, Rare Books and Manuscripts  within the University Libraries will have appraisal made of the value of the 75,000 comics for income tax purposes and provide the donor with a statement of such for said purpose.  https://www.library.upenn.edu/kislak

The donor hasn't taken any deduction yet, as the Libraries received the collection only this year and must still preserve, catalog, archive, and assess it.  The benefit of adding the collection to the comic books and graphic novels section of the Rare Books collection is as an information source for research and teaching purposes by faculty and students.

Edited Tuesday at 09:25 PM by namisgr

[comicwiz]

On 6/25/2024 at 4:10 PM, ThothAmon said:

With respect, I’m not sure how you can conclude this without a lot more facts. Do you have any idea what valuation was given?  You do realize the appraiser was hired by the donor and not UPenn?

This I'm not sure about. My guess would be that in order for the University to be in a position of issuing an official donation tax reciept, the Office of the Treasurer for PA would have final say on who orders the appraisal. As the donor is a former store owner, it would also make sense to have no arm length involvement in valuing the collection. 

[Aman619]

On 6/25/2024 at 4:31 PM, sd2416 said:

Wouldn't 500,000/80,000 be 6.25 a book?

damm  I used to be so good at simple math!  you're right

[Aman619]

On 6/25/2024 at 5:07 PM, comicwiz said:

This I'm not sure about. My guess would be that in order for the University to be in a position of issuing an official donation tax reciept, the Office of the Treasurer for PA would have final say on who orders the appraisal. As the donor is a former store owner, it would also make sense to have no arm length involvement in valuing the collection. 

with a bulk of this size with lets say 50000 of the comics modern non keys and therefore of questionable value (20 cents apiece wholesale? or cover price a la Overstreet values? )  which way does an appraiser approach the values??  one book at a time at retail?  or taken as a whole with most of it available to buy for cents on the dollar in the real world?  its a tough assignment:  the buyer and receiver may want a higher or lower valuation, right?  or perhaps both prefer a higher number?

Edited Tuesday at 10:09 PM by Aman619

[ThothAmon]

On 6/25/2024 at 5:04 PM, namisgr said:

I can conclude this from the article published in the Pennsylvania Gazette and the story about the collection being acquired by Penn in the Philadelphia Inquirer.   The J. I. Kislak Center for Special Collections, Rare Books and Manuscripts  within the University Libraries will have appraisal made of the value of the 75,000 comics for income tax purposes and provide the donor with a statement of such for said purpose.  https://www.library.upenn.edu/kislak

The donor hasn't taken any deduction yet, as the Libraries received the collection only this year and must still preserve, catalog, archive, and assess it.  The benefit of adding the collection to the comic books and graphic novels section of the Rare Books collection is as an information source for research and teaching purposes by faculty and students.

 

On 6/25/2024 at 5:07 PM, comicwiz said:

This I'm not sure about. My guess would be that in order for the University to be in a position of issuing an official donation tax reciept, the Office of the Treasurer for PA would have final say on who orders the appraisal. As the donor is a former store owner, it would also make sense to have no arm length involvement in valuing the collection. 

The video quotes the donor as saying he hired the appraiser for the valuation, the university didn’t. Near the end of the video if you didn’t watch it all. 

[namisgr]

On 6/25/2024 at 7:39 PM, ThothAmon said:

 

The video quotes the donor as saying he hired the appraiser for the valuation, the university didn’t. Near the end of the video if you didn’t watch it all. 

He may have hired an appraiser, but as with all charitable donations it is the recipient that typically provides the donor with a receipt acknowledging their donation and ascribing value to it for tax purposes.  As for determining the value of donated goods, the IRS has detailed requirements and information covering the subject, for example https://www.irs.gov/publications/p561

Edited Wednesday at 11:22 AM by namisgr

[comicwiz]

On 6/25/2024 at 7:39 PM, ThothAmon said:

The video quotes the donor as saying he hired the appraiser for the valuation, the university didn’t. Near the end of the video if you didn’t watch it all. 

That doesn't mean the University, through the issuing Treasurer, will not have their own appraiser. It's important to recognize that an assignment like this is quite complex, costly, and the very last thing you want to see is a contested opinion.

[comicwiz]

On 6/25/2024 at 6:07 PM, Aman619 said:

with a bulk of this size with lets say 50000 of the comics modern non keys and therefore of questionable value (20 cents apiece wholesale? or cover price a la Overstreet values? )  which way does an appraiser approach the values??  one book at a time at retail?  or taken as a whole with most of it available to buy for cents on the dollar in the real world?  its a tough assignment:  the buyer and receiver may want a higher or lower valuation, right?  or perhaps both prefer a higher number?

The toughest part is the size. You can't really accelerate the inspection phase, and value is contingent on grade assessment. Usually whatever strategy is employed, it needs to disclaimed as part of the report (i.e. anything under a certain value threshold was grouped into a category [aka cover price]) - I'm not implying that's the case here, just using this as an example speciific to your line of questioning. The appraiser would need to devise a framework for valuation as well, so as an example, something like this would be best served using a fair market value (FMV), but they may ask for liquidation value as well. If it's FMV, the report wouldn't list anything other than FMV, although in the market conditions section of the report, some mention may be made about the condition of certain lower value books being difficult to attain FMV or even cover price, and those would need to adopt more of a "wholesale" or "thrift donation" approach to liquidating, again just as an example of how one might report it. We have to also keep in mind that during the pandemic, we saw low to mid grade books perform at unprecedented value attainment levels, and so unless we look at the specific context and actual books, it really isn't something I'd speculate on unless I knew exactly what I was looking at. 

Edited Wednesday at 11:46 AM by comicwiz

[whomerjay]

On 6/23/2024 at 9:44 AM, namisgr said:

 

 There is a famous t-shirt worn on Penn's campus- "Not Penn State"

[Dr. Balls]

This is pretty cool. Not sure if the couple had kids or not, or even kids interested in the hobby - but I can see why you would want to have something like this preserved rather than make the huge effort and time commitment to part it out and sell, especially if you're not feeling the financial pressure to do so.

I'm hoping to hang onto my meager art collection for many years. I have step-children, but they are not into the hobby whatsoever - should the time come near the end and I have managed to hang onto my art, I can see entertaining a donation to an organization that would preserve my collection, or at the very least, find some sort of use for it. It would be a nice feeling to gift something you're passionate about to a group who would appreciate the passion and use it as a way to continue educating people about and promoting or preserving the hobby.

[Aman619]

Just thought of another side of this gifting.  Donations like this are considered a gift for tax purposes right?  So since gifts over your lifetime are tallied up when you the remaining spouse dies, and, being married, this couple currently through the end of 2025 anyway, have 25M in gifts before they pay any estate taxes.  And having gifted them this year, the total is grandfathered in even if the total exemption is not renewed next year (which is think is unlikely by either party after the election).  What my point is is that there will be zero motivation financially to gifting the collection so long as their combined estates will be less than the 25M minus all lifetime gifting they made.

so probably an altruistic move to keep it together and avoid the effort to sell it.

Edited Wednesday at 11:41 PM by Aman619