Bidding on your own auction 8 8

[shadroch]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:12 PM, bc said:

What????
So now you have bought the same book twice? (adding in all the shipping and other costs like the consignment fee).Unless you got a fantastic deal initially, this doesn't seem very logical.

As I said in my last post, if you needed to get a floor price to guarantee a profit, then a service that offers reserve pricing would be more appropriate.

-bc

Are you kidding?  Follow the money.   I buy a book for $75, thinking it will sell for $200.  It is at $50 with two minutes left.  I bid $75 max and win it at $70.  When I pay $70, where does the money go? My choices were to let it  go for $50, get a check for $45 and end up losing $30 on the book, or pay the $7 commission and still have my book.  Add a zero or two to the prices and you'll understand it better. 

As long as it is disclosed that the auction house allows it, I see no issue. If 95% of buyers can't be bothered to read the R&C before they check that they did is whose problem? It's certainly not miine.

[jcjames]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:37 PM, shadroch said:

Absolutely.  If the auction rules allow it, I have no issue doing it.   If the rules forbid it, I don't.  I'm not sure what could be more explicit.  People need to read the rules and not be upset when other people follow them. 

A very slightly better way would be for the seller to be clearly and openly identified as "the seller" or as "the auction house" in the list of active bids. 

Rather than burying the possibility in fine-print. 

But it's still manipulation during the transaction to raise the hammer price. Still doesn't pass the smell test. 

 

[ThothAmon]

Again, who the heck knows, cares or thinks about the motivation of other bidders for comic books while bidding themselves?  I sure don’t and I only bid to an amount that I'm willing to. Just like everyone else. One more thing, what mba program teaches that buying your own items at auction is a smart business decision?  Grandpa said you can’t make up for a loss with volume. 

[bc]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:50 PM, shadroch said:

Are you kidding?  Follow the money.   I buy a book for $75, thinking it will sell for $200.  It is at $50 with two minutes left.  I bid $75 max and win it at $70.  When I pay $70, where does the money go? My choices were to let it  go for $50, get a check for $45 and end up losing $30 on the book, or pay the $7 commission and still have my book.  Add a zero or two to the prices and you'll understand it better. 

As long as it is disclosed that the auction house allows it, I see no issue. If 95% of buyers can't be bothered to read the R&C before they check that they did is whose problem? It's certainly not miine.

So if you bought the book originally for $75 thinking it would allow a profit of $125 (your stated $200 hammer price).

You consign it at, let's say, somewhere that charges a 10% commission on the hammer price.

During the auction you bid on your own book and win it for $70.

You now have $145 into the book, plus let's say $10 for shipping both ways (another $20) less the consignment fee of $7 - you're now at $172 into the book. You netted $63 from the "sale", so now your in the book for $109. The new expected profit is only $91 - then you have to relist it and do it again (more shipping & fees)

-bc

 

Edited Thursday at 11:03 PM by bc
clarify math

[shadroch]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:22 PM, Lightning55 said:

It's like being in a rigged roulette game at the casino. If you found out you were a victim of that type of fraud, you'd be all over it. 

This is the same thing, a rigged game aimed at extracting more money from you than would happen naturally.  It's theft.

For example, every buyer on Proxibid is required to check a box stating that they read and agreed to the auction conditions. This is a legally binding agreement, and the auction house can sue you if you don't honor your bids. Either the rules are binding, and you honor your words, or you don't. Participating in an auction and then complaining about the rules after seems pretty weird to me, but I try to say what I mean and mean what I say. 

[jcjames]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:59 PM, bc said:

So if you bought the book originally for $75 thinking it would allow a profit of $125 (your stated $200 hammer price).

You consign it at, let's say, somewhere that charges a 10% commission on the hammer price.

During the auction you bid on your own book and win it for $70.

You now have $145 into the book, plus let's say $10 for shipping both ways (another $20) less the consignment fee of $7 - you're now at $172 into the book.

If it hit the expected price of $200, you'd net $180 after fees.

-bc

 

whatchadoo is cancel the sale or just don't pay, then re-list with a new FMV now slightly higher, lather, rinse, repeat... 

[Sigur Ros]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:22 PM, Lightning55 said:

It's like being in a rigged roulette game at the casino. If you found out you were a victim of that type of fraud, you'd be all over it. 

This is the same thing, a rigged game aimed at extracting more money from you than would happen naturally.  It's theft.

But as opposed to roulette... you got the product you decided was worth $500.

[shadroch]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:59 PM, bc said:

So if you bought the book originally for $75 thinking it would allow a profit of $125 (your stated $200 hammer price).

You consign it at, let's say, somewhere that charges a 10% commission on the hammer price.

During the auction you bid on your own book and win it for $70.

You now have $145 into the book, plus let's say $10 for shipping both ways (another $20) less the consignment fee of $7 - you're now at $172 into the book.

If it hit the expected price of $200, you'd net $180 after fees.

-bc

 

Seriously? Did you put any thought into this?   I paid $75 and lets say $5 per book to ship, as I don't ship single books.  Shipping twenty books greatly reduces the cost per book.  I'm hoping for $200 but end up winning it for $70.  Here is where you evidently get very confused.  As the buyer, I pay out $70, but the auction house now owes me $63.  I have my original $75, plus $5 shipping and $7 in sellers commission, for a total of $87, not $145.    Had I let it go for $50, I had a guaranteed loss of $30.  Instead, for a cost of $7, I still have a book I think can sell for $200.  If it sells next month for even $100, I'll squeeze out a small profit.  A small profit beat losing 40% on a book., as I was about to.

[shadroch]

On 6/27/2024 at 4:12 PM, Sigur Ros said:

But as opposed to roulette... you got the product you decided was worth $500.

But you were cheated....

[bc]

On 6/27/2024 at 7:14 PM, shadroch said:

Seriously? Did you put any thought into this?   I paid $75 and lets say $5 per book to ship, as I don't ship single books.  Shipping twenty books greatly reduces the cost per book.  I'm hoping for $200 but end up winning it for $70.  Here is where you evidently get very confused.  As the buyer, I pay out $70, but the auction house now owes me $63.  I have my original $75, plus $5 shipping and $7 in sellers commission, for a total of $87, not $145.    Had I let it go for $50, I had a guaranteed loss of $30.  Instead, for a cost of $7, I still have a book I think can sell for $200.  If it sells next month for even $100, I'll squeeze out a small profit.  A small profit beat losing 40% on a book., as I was about to.

I see my error 

But it does chip into the potential profit margin every cycle.

-bc

[shadroch]

On 6/27/2024 at 4:03 PM, jcjames said:

whatchadoo is cancel the sale or just don't pay, then re-list with a new FMV now slightly higher, lather, rinse, repeat... 

Not honoring your bids is the quickest way to lose both buying and selling privileges. One of the main disconnects is people who buy a few things on eBay and think that is how all auctions work.  It appears to be shocking to some that many auctions allow consignors to bid on their items. 

[shadroch]

On 6/27/2024 at 4:18 PM, bc said:

I see my error 

But it does chip into the potential profit margin every cycle.

-bc

It's built into the cost of doing business. 

[Funnybooks]

[Chip Cataldo]

I just set a price I'd like to sell for and take offers. That's the easiest, stress-less practice.

I rarely auction anything, and it's usually when I don't know anything about the item (which is rare with the Internet sitting there) AND have very little money into it.

eBay doesn't have to be an auction site. It's a far better storefront.

[Sigur Ros]

On 6/27/2024 at 8:37 PM, Chip Cataldo said:

I just set a price I'd like to sell for and take offers. That's the easiest, stress-less practice.

I rarely auction anything, and it's usually when I don't know anything about the item (which is rare with the Internet sitting there) AND have very little money into it.

eBay doesn't have to be an auction site. It's a far better storefront.

Completely agree.

I haven't sold via auction in over a decade.

Set a price and accept offers, on almost everything.  The rest is just price, no offers.

[Chip Cataldo]

On 6/27/2024 at 8:43 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Completely agree.

I haven't sold via auction in over a decade.

Set a price and accept offers, on almost everything.  The rest is just price, no offers.

...especially with you able to send offers when someone puts an item on their watch list, when they ask you a question about an item, and now I've gotten offers when I've simply viewed an item.

It's really so easy to sell on eBay (quickly) without ever running an auction at all.

[alexgross.com]

On 6/26/2024 at 6:12 PM, Funnybooks said:

www.ebay.com › shill-bidding-policyShill bidding policy | eBay

 

Shill bidding is unfair to buyers and it's illegal in many places in the world. We have this policy to discourage shill bidding and to make it clear what can happen when people don't follow these

i agree that shill bidding is unethical and am well aware of feebay's policy on it. i am also well aware that feebay has not once ever done anything about the almost limitless amount of comic sellers on there who very obviously shill their own stuff. super easy to discern when one looks at bidding histories, as outlined in countless threads here on the boards. 

not to take this thread off topic, but really. feebay could not care less if sellers shill bid their stuff, as long as feebay gets their cut. 

[Chip Cataldo]

On 6/27/2024 at 8:59 PM, alexgross.com said:

feebay could not care less if sellers shill bid their stuff anyone does anything illegal at ALL using their platform, as long as feebay gets their cut. 

This is how they've always been. With the volume I do it's a wonder I don't get ripped off by buyers at all. You do need luck on there...lots of luck.

[B2D327]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:43 PM, Sigur Ros said:

 I don't do business here but feel free to add me to that fake list.  👍

A fake list with fake people added...perfect combination

[Sigur Ros]

On 6/27/2024 at 7:16 PM, shadroch said:

But you were cheated....

Maybe.

With roulette, you bet with no chance of winning and lost.

With the auction, you bid what you were willing to pay, won, paid it and got the item.

Quite different.  The comparison was a bad one.