Heritage Auctions selling raw pedigree book with no proof 2 2

[ProjectTerra]

How has people's experience been with Heritage Auctions selling books that they assert are from a pedigree collection, but have absolutely no hard documentation that this is a pedigree? Have you been scammed before? Is Heritage always spot on if it's a pedigree book?

I recently emailed them about a listing I was looking at asking if they had any hard documentation on if this raw pedigree book was legit, and their response was not reassuring.

"We do not have additional hard documentation we can give you at this point nearly 15 years after our initially offering the book. We would not have made the assertion without confidence we were correct, to a large degree owing to our familiarity with the consignor and knowledge he had purchased multiple books from this collection. If you’re skeptical about the provenance, I would recommend that you take that into consideration before making the owner an offer."

I was going to have CGC slab it just to be absolutely sure, but I'd want to know if it was even a pedigree to begin with, cause if not, there's no point in buying that particular listing.

[revat]

Maybe it would make more sense to ask cgc what their criteria are for that specific pedigree, and then see if heritage can provide you what is needed.  Every pedigree and situation is different, and conditions and requirements might change over time.  
 

The opinions of random internet strangers offering vague or anecdotal or possibly irrelevant or conflicting opinions also seems valuable, but strongly consider also asking cgc customer service 

good luck

[DougC]

If you slab the comic it will be at CGC's sole discretion if they deem it as part of the pedigree. I have had a couple mile high books purchased from Heritage receive the slab notation with the only "documentation" being is that it was old that way from HA. On the other hand, my complete X-Men (1991) 1-11 with Savannah cert & HA purchase documents were not notated and deemed fake (I argued this for the better part of a month and even whined about it on the forums).

The best you can do is have all the documentation you can and send it in to CGC and hope for the best.

[namisgr]

On 7/1/2024 at 2:36 AM, DougC said:

If you slab the comic it will be at CGC's sole discretion if they deem it as part of the pedigree. I have had a couple mile high books purchased from Heritage receive the slab notation with the only "documentation" being is that it was old that way from HA. On the other hand, my complete X-Men (1991) 1-11 with Savannah cert & HA purchase documents were not notated and deemed fake (I argued this for the better part of a month and even whined about it on the forums).

The best you can do is have all the documentation you can and send it in to CGC and hope for the best.

It was my understanding that CGC does not denote on their label modern comics as being from any pedigree.  If that is so, then it would account for why they'd refuse to note the Savannah pedigree as the source for your 1991 run of X-Men.  I believe you established that as such in an earlier thread on submitting post-1985 comics from recognized pedigree collections.

Edited July 1 by namisgr
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[CGC Mike]

[DougC]

On 7/1/2024 at 6:14 AM, namisgr said:

It was my understanding that CGC does not denote on their label modern comics as being from any pedigree.  If that is so, then it would account for why they'd refuse to note the Savannah pedigree as the source for your 1991 run of X-Men.  I believe you established that as such in an earlier thread on submitting post-1985 comics from recognized pedigree collections.

I might not have updated my post but this has changed; there are multiple examples now of post 1985 books that have the pedigree label. At first it was only for books deemed as "keys" but has expanded, though I have never been given a hard, factual quote from anyone other than it is up to the grader. I have all but harassed anyone who would pick up a phone at CGC about this as an ineffectual boomer mentality of gatekeeping. I would like to think that through peer & pure pressure and general annoyance they finally caved, for instance the previous pedigreecomics auction had 30ish very non-key issues from the 90s in slabs with the Winnipeg notation.

My issue on the x-men books turned out to be "authentication" and "chain of ownership", currently CGC does not view any post 1985 newsstand from Savannah as "original owner" regardless of where it was purchased from (or documentation).

Edited July 1 by DougC
pressure

[namisgr]

On 7/1/2024 at 8:14 AM, DougC said:

I might not have updated my post but this has changed; there are multiple examples now of post 1985 books that have the pedigree label. At first it was only for books deemed as "keys" but has expanded, though I have never been given a hard, factual quote from anyone other than it is up to the grader. I have all but harassed anyone who would pick up a phone at CGC about this as an ineffectual boomer mentality of gatekeeping. I would like to think that through peer & pure pressure and general annoyance they finally caved, for instance the previous pedigreecomics auction had 30ish very non-key issues from the 90s in slabs with the Winnipeg notation.

My issue on the x-men books turned out to be "authentication" and "chain of ownership", currently CGC does not view any post 1985 newsstand from Savannah as "original owner" regardless of where it was purchased from (or documentation).

Sounds like CGC may have given preferential treatment to denote modern comics with a pedigree designation to a high value, high volume preferred customer.  It wouldn't be anywhere near the first time over the years that's been the look.

[DougC]

On 7/1/2024 at 7:30 AM, namisgr said:

Sounds like CGC may have given preferential treatment to denote modern comics with a pedigree designation to a high value, high volume preferred customer.  It wouldn't be anywhere near the first time over the years that's been the look.

I accused them of the same thing as my books were in process during the same time, but at least three other pedigree's also have moderns being recognized so it is across the board.

 

Back to the OP; sometimes documentation isn't needed since mislabeling is also a problem, this looks to have already been corrected in the data base (still pictured) but is still loose in the wild being advertised as a Pedigree under the CGC banner.

[shadroch]

On 7/1/2024 at 5:30 AM, namisgr said:

Sounds like CGC may have given preferential treatment to denote modern comics with a pedigree designation to a high value, high volume preferred customer.  It wouldn't be anywhere near the first time over the years that's been the look.

Say it ain't so, Joe.