What's up with the trend in slabbing dross? 1 1

[kent allard]

Is CGC behind this, to prime the pump and create a market?  Is HA in an incestuous relationship with CGC, slabbiing these for $5 each?

What are people thinking to slab this kind of stuff?  Consignors must be delusional in their expectations. Sell on MCS as a raw!  At least you'll make $5 or $10.

I can't see anyone benefiting from this but CGC (slabbing fees) and HA (outrageous $29 minimum BP).

[Darwination]

[kent allard]

I noticed those as well, but a .5 PLOD?  It's not like this is an 08/1928 copy of Amazing Stories.

These are not the only examples.  Previous auctions have also had some questionable offerings, but ya gotta draw the line somewhere.  This seems to be a trend, not a one-off.

I'm a bit of a suspicious type.  I have personally experienced multiple instances of what strongly seems to me to be AI-based shill bidding on certain items I was chasing.  No accusations, just saying.  CGC's reputation is a bit tarnished recently.  The questionable 9.8 grades, suspicious grading, etc ...   No fires, just a lot of smoke.  With the tight relationship between HA and CGC, I can't help wondering if is it mindless/clueless collector newbies who have bought into the slabbing-mania and trying to jump on the next big wave, or something a bit more sinister (muahahaha!).

I'm not above buying a slabbed pulp.  I see the value of it for me as a buyer, but I'm concerned that sellers are being led to the slaughter and the overall effect this will have on COLLECTING.  Do we really want to allow pulps to become commoditized the way comics have?

Throwing it out there ... how do people feel about this?

Edited September 2 by kent allard
missed a word

[comicjack]

If there is a market for it buyers will bite no matter the condition 

[Point Five]

No, there's no grand conspiracy here. It's probably newbie sellers who are sending a pile of pulp inventory to CGC/HA and think they'll turn a profit. Some confusion about the pulp grading scale may be in the mix too (and pulps have a LOT more pages to count then comics so that step is likely getting skipped). They'll take their lumps and move on, as we all have at some point. No big deal IMO. 

 

[Darwination]

I don't see how this wonkiness is in anybody's interest, honestly.

The OP's example has a purple .5 with some glue that in my estimation is at least better off than the .5 blue with a missing back cover or the other .5 with the wrong back cover taped on.  The "2.5" has big chips out and a ton of creasing and tears.  That's a reader lot of very common pulps and should be enjoyed as such and nowhere near a Sunday night auction

Hammer price = $84

 

Edited September 2 by Darwination

[kent allard]

On 9/1/2024 at 8:22 PM, Darwination said:

I don't see how this wonkiness is in anybody's interest, honestly.

The OP's example has a purple .5 with some glue that in my estimation is at least better off than the .5 blue with a missing back cover or the other .5 with the wrong back cover taped on.  The "2.5" has big chips out and a ton of creasing and tears.  That's a reader lot of very common pulps and should be enjoyed as such and nowhere near a Sunday night auction

Hammer price = $84

 

I'm not sure what to make of your comment about wonkiness.  I'm assuming you are dismissing the entire topic as being counterproductive to consider.

You want reader copies - fine.  You're willing to pay $20+ a pulp - fine.  Why slab them if they are just reader copies?  HA is taking $29 off the top, leaving $55 for the consignor, before consignment fees.  That's probably no more than $12 - $13 return per pulp, exclusive of slabbing costs.  Let's just say there were no shipping costs to slab - consignor is still way in the red.  Who is making the money here?  CGC and HA.

I'm sure the consignor would net more putting them on MCS as unslabbed reader copies.  Heck, throwing them away is better than putting them on HA, at least you don't LOSE money.  Makes NO sense to me.

The point of the thread is to see if anyone else smells a rat - I don't understand why these are being graded and I'm suspicious we are being played.  Is it as banal as clueless newbies or is there something else going on?  Sounds like you are in the former group.  I leaning more and more to being in the latter.

[kent allard]

On 9/1/2024 at 6:47 PM, Point Five said:

No, there's no grand conspiracy here. It's probably newbie sellers who are sending a pile of pulp inventory to CGC/HA and think they'll turn a profit. Some confusion about the pulp grading scale may be in the mix too (and pulps have a LOT more pages to count then comics so that step is likely getting skipped). They'll take their lumps and move on, as we all have at some point. No big deal IMO. 

 

Fair.  I just want some perspective from veterans.

[tth2]

On 9/2/2024 at 3:43 AM, kent allard said:

What are people thinking to slab this kind of stuff?  Consignors must be delusional in their expectations. Sell on MCS as a raw!  At least you'll make $5 or $10.

I can't see anyone benefiting from this but CGC (slabbing fees) and HA (outrageous $29 minimum BP).

I've always wondered the same thing about people who submitted BA, CA and Modern comics in really low grades who'll lose money on their books. 

I've always attributed it to submitters who simply can't grade.  CGC and Heritage both seem to be busy enough that they don't need to play games at the shallow end of the pool.  I doubt the incremental revenues from these items are enough to move the needle.

[Darwination]

On 9/2/2024 at 2:43 AM, kent allard said:

I'm not sure what to make of your comment about wonkiness.  I'm assuming you are dismissing the entire topic as being counterproductive to consider.

 

The wonkiness I refer to is slabbing pulps worth less than the cost of grading.  Or listing these at auction when they remain under the value of the BP.  There's been so much of this going on that HA including some of these slabbed pulps in groups like this more often the last few weeks is at least an indication they realize the books aren't at BP value when listed singly.

The lot here 10 years ago was a 10 dollar lot for all 4 on eBay.  Right now it's a 20 dollar lot for all four (unless there's a particularly notable bit of fiction in one of them).  That might be a slight exaggeration but probably not.

CGC has no objection to grading whatever (as shown by the modern dreck yahoos will send in), but I don't think the auction house much to gain.  The prestige of the auction decreases the more junk included, and while that BP does look high to us, I assume it's at least some way representative of their cost in taking scans, putting up an auction description, hosting a live auction, etc. - that's just to say you'd think they'd much prefer to be dealing in more valuable goods.

[OtherEric]

Is it possible people sent in some cheap books so they could see some of the results for themselves, including additional damage to the books caused by slabbing, and then were just trying to recover their money once they had the info they needed?

Not saying that makes a lot of sense, but it's the only scenario that easily comes to mind.

[Ryan.]

Another possibility, which admittedly isn't as fun to consider as a grand conspiracy between CGC and HA to make dozens of dollars, is that the submitter sent a large stack of pulps in for grading and just tossed some low graders in the pile without really thinking about it. I've been guilty of that. Then just sent them on to HA in the same box as higher value slabs just to get rid of them.

[kent allard]

On 9/2/2024 at 4:02 PM, Ryan. said:

Another possibility, which admittedly isn't as fun to consider as a grand conspiracy between CGC and HA to make dozens of dollars, is that the submitter sent a large stack of pulps in for grading and just tossed some low graders in the pile without really thinking about it. I've been guilty of that. Then just sent them on to HA in the same box as higher value slabs just to get rid of them.

Now that is a plausible hypothesis.

In defense of the conspiracy theory, one might theorize a focus on the long game.  I agree that this is chump change now.  What I'm suspicious of is trying to establish a behavior pattern of slabbing everything 'otherwise you won't be able to sell it'.

I'm not pushing anything here.  Just a bit suspicious.

[kent allard]

On 9/2/2024 at 10:13 AM, OtherEric said:

Is it possible people sent in some cheap books so they could see some of the results for themselves, including additional damage to the books caused by slabbing, and then were just trying to recover their money once they had the info they needed?

Not saying that makes a lot of sense, but it's the only scenario that easily comes to mind.

No, that's actually something I could see.  Before committing pulps of value, see what the results look like, then dump them on HA to recoup some of the costs.

Bears consideration as I keep my eyes on how things develop.

[kent allard]

On 9/2/2024 at 9:44 AM, Darwination said:

The wonkiness I refer to is slabbing pulps worth less than the cost of grading.  Or listing these at auction when they remain under the value of the BP.  There's been so much of this going on that HA including some of these slabbed pulps in groups like this more often the last few weeks is at least an indication they realize the books aren't at BP value when listed singly.

The lot here 10 years ago was a 10 dollar lot for all 4 on eBay.  Right now it's a 20 dollar lot for all four (unless there's a particularly notable bit of fiction in one of them).  That might be a slight exaggeration but probably not.

CGC has no objection to grading whatever (as shown by the modern dreck yahoos will send in), but I don't think the auction house much to gain.  The prestige of the auction decreases the more junk included, and while that BP does look high to us, I assume it's at least some way representative of their cost in taking scans, putting up an auction description, hosting a live auction, etc. - that's just to say you'd think they'd much prefer to be dealing in more valuable goods.

I don't understand the bundling lot logic.  Is it keeping the overall number of lots down to something more reasonable?  Is hit or miss depending on who is organizing the auction lots?  

I've gotten some really good deals when HA created a bundled lot of things that they could have easily been split into multiple lots.  Other times I have been forced to bid on multiple mid-value items (< $145) in a run that each trigger the BP minimum, and I feel screwed.  This has been happening in the past few auctions where I have won slabbed pulps for <$20 and am dismayed to see I am spending more on the BP then the item itself.  OK, that can happen in an auction.  But I feel for the consignor, especially when they have incurred the cost of slabbing.

I don't think HA is concerned about their prestige in this area.  They are solidly ensconced, and given the quality of the material they bring to market, rightly so.  This is gravy.  My concern is that HA might be the one submitting this dross for slabbing because they have a volume discount or 'understanding' with CGC.  It is a lot more impressive to offer a bundle of slabbed pulps than unslabbed pulps.  If it costs them $5 * 4 = $20 to slab the lot, I can see that being a considered reasonable strategic investment to shape a perception.

I don't know.  @Ryan. and @OtherEric  have plausible hypotheses, but something about the current state of things is causing my spidey sense to tingle.  Maybe I'm just being paranoid.  I'll go back to my bedroom in the basement now, but don't say nobody warned you all  ...

[Darwination]

On 9/2/2024 at 7:37 PM, kent allard said:

I don't understand the bundling lot logic.

 

The logic is that I doubt any one would pay the 35 dollar BP for any one of those pulps individually but if you get 4 for the single BP you are more likely to do it.  If you think that lot is worth the minimum 35 in the first place...

By sticking two, three or four of these undesirables together it at least eases the hurdle of the BP for the buyer.

[kent allard]

On 9/2/2024 at 5:59 PM, Darwination said:

The logic is that I doubt any one would pay the 35 dollar BP for any one of those pulps individually but if you get 4 for the single BP you are more likely to do it.  If you think that lot is worth the minimum 35 in the first place...

By sticking two, three or four of these undesirables together it at least eases the hurdle of the BP for the buyer.

Exactly!

For the sake of argument, let's say they get a volume discount, or preferred pricing - whatever you want to call it - of $5 a slab.  For $20 you can slab 4 pieces of dreck that no one would bid on individually and generate $29.  I understand the business logic of that from the vantage point of HA.  But they could just as well bundle them as a lot of unslabbed pulps and people would bid on it too.  I win the lot - yay!  What am I going to do with 4 slabbed pieces of dreck whose only value is as reader copies - break them out?  Why slab them to begin with?  Slabbing imputes to them a value they don't have and is in fact counterproductive - to the customer.  Hence my suspicions that something is at play here.

Of course it could be just newbies slabbing dreck and HA benevolently bundling them into a lot so they can be sold and provide *SOME* return for the clueless.  @Ryan. and @OtherEric had credible hypotheses.

I have no stake in it either way.  Just floating the suspicions to see what others think.  Doesn't seem like anyone else shares them.  That's cool.

[tth2]

On 9/3/2024 at 7:02 AM, Ryan. said:

a grand conspiracy between CGC and HA to make dozens of dollars

  

[jimjum12]

On 9/1/2024 at 3:43 PM, kent allard said:

Is CGC behind this, to prime the pump and create a market?  Is HA in an incestuous relationship with CGC, slabbiing these for $5 each?

What are people thinking to slab this kind of stuff?  Consignors must be delusional in their expectations. Sell on MCS as a raw!  At least you'll make $5 or $10.

I can't see anyone benefiting from this but CGC (slabbing fees) and HA (outrageous $29 minimum BP).

Like any Corporate Entity, they will be seeking new revenue streams, particularly if they exist among the current client base. If they are funding this new enterprise, I doubt very seriously there is some Machiavellian undercurrent to create a false market. Anyone who has ever collected pulps would understand the appeal. The slabbing of less-than-ideal specimens is a function of the individual collector or submitter, bearing in mind that there has never been a shortage of foolishness in any given collector base. There would be no need to fabricate that which already exists. A successful collector will focus on the proven, leaving the back-alley dice rolls to the inexperienced novice. That Citadel of Lost Ages looks like a Finlay cover, not exactly chopped liver, but certainly not iconic. Bear also in mind, not all Pulp collectors adhere to a simplistic "cover centric" mentality, and also focus on authors and first prints. Personal taste will always play a role, for example, I am fond of Fox and Crow, but not one issue sold in my recent thread. GOD BLESS ...

-jiimbo(a friend of jesus)

-jiimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited September 3 by jimjum12

[Robot Man]

I have scratched my head for years seeing folks paying to get VERY low grade comics graded. I get it on a very expensive book or keys But on just average low dollar stuff?

Let’s face it, poor is poor. Does slabbing it really brink any more $ in the long run?

Now, we have Pulp collectors drinking the Kool-Aide.