Stan Lee Lied - Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in the 'Origins of Marvel Comics' 9 9

[comicwiz]

On 9/19/2024 at 8:10 PM, VintageComics said:

Sure. I've even posted my artwork on these forums. What are you getting at?

Already responded here

Edited 12 hours ago by comicwiz

[CGC Mike]

On 9/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, VintageComics said:

There's actually very little heat in this thread. 

People need to air out their differences and come to conclusions and the only way to do that is through discourse. 

This is the way the forums were for almost 20 years and then something changed and as soon as two people disagreed Moderation would step in, unnecessarily. That would just increase frustration and raise tensions, and IMO this place has become dead as a doornail because of such extreme measures and this sort of conversation is a welcome breath of fresh air. 

The old days were the wild west and this is nothing like some of those old threads. People are far more aware of the expected social boundaries these days. 

The bolded part is wrong.  Times have changed.  Moderation has changed with the times.  You have not.  I recommend that you do.  This will be my only post regarding this.

[VintageComics]

On 9/19/2024 at 8:29 PM, comicwiz said:

Read the post above

I read it. 

I appreciate Kirby's skill and art, but I don't love it. 

As per the short convo on the previous page, I'm more a fan of "illustrators" as opposed to "cartoonists" and to draw a parallel, I feel the same way about Schomburg's art. 

His early art is more like an illustrator's fine art, and I absolutely love his early Timely art. It strikes an emotional chord with me and I find it mesmerizing and moving. His comic art evolved after the 1st 13 or so issues of Marvel Mystery and became far more cartoony and I just don't like it as much. 

To each their own. 

[VintageComics]

On 9/19/2024 at 8:34 PM, CGC Mike said:

On 9/19/2024 at 8:08 PM, VintageComics said:

There's actually very little heat in this thread. 

People need to air out their differences and come to conclusions and the only way to do that is through discourse. 

This is the way the forums were for almost 20 years and then something changed and as soon as two people disagreed Moderation would step in, unnecessarily. That would just increase frustration and raise tensions, and IMO this place has become dead as a doornail because of such extreme measures and this sort of conversation is a welcome breath of fresh air. 

The old days were the wild west and this is nothing like some of those old threads. People are far more aware of the expected social boundaries these days. 

The bolded part is wrong.  Times have changed.  Moderation has changed with the times.  You have not.  I recommend that you do.  This will be my only post regarding this.

The fact that you haven't locked this thread, even though people disagree in it has allowed it to be a benefit to everyone. Other threads have been locked with less disagreement and it always does a disservice to the community. 

I changed and buried the hatchet over a year ago. It would be nice if everyone else did too, but I can only do so much. 

[mrwoogieman]

 

I for one am glad that Stan Lee died for our sins.

 

 

[Mmehdy]

Comic wiz this book…is going to change a lot of minds about the so-called marvel fairy tale history that Stan came up with everything…. Especially his spider-man spin.

 This book is gonna open a lot of doors shut tight on the real comic book history … as a side effect I expect a lot of spillover on other topics and issues …. 

those who take their history serious… after reading this thread, your comments, and this book… there is a bright new comic book history world out there.

 

 

 

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 9/11/2024 at 10:31 PM, Prince Namor said:

I'm proud to announce my latest book - Stan Lee Lied - Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in the 'Origins of Marvel Comics', available now on Amazon!

Just in time for the 50th anniversary of this infamous book!

In 1974, Stan Lee released the ‘Origins of Marvel Comics', laying claim to the creation of some of the greatest superheroes in the history of comic books. For 50 years, the lies and inaccuracies of this book have been not only overlooked or outright ignored by the mainstream media (and even many comic journalists), but repeated as FACT.

For the first time, an in depth look at just how inaccurate Lee's story is - fact-checked with modern updated means of information collection and later interviews with the people who were there.

Stan Lee Lied. A LOT.

And that's a fact.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DGLQ6BXV

 

Ordered!

[Prince Namor]

On 9/20/2024 at 9:22 AM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

Ordered!

Thank you!

[Prince Namor]

On 9/20/2024 at 7:28 AM, comicwiz said:

I know you had mentioned your reasons for writing this book. I am appreciative of what you've written, and shared here.

I would add that before what took place with Christine Valada, there was another incident where the late, great Charles Lippincott had come to learn that Roy Thomas was taking credit for "stuff he did not do." It's summarized in this post, and it began when Liefeld posted a screenshot of a 1977 Star Wars pocketbook:

Sound familar? Liefeld asking "So Stan and Roy are both lying?"

The back and forth was basically Charley setting the record straight, and I guess eventually Liefeld relented on his "without Roy, there's no Star Wars", claiming no intent to stir the pot. Except for breaking out of the gate defending Stan and Roy. And I guess he came around to comment (being against) the Houseroy incident where he complained about not getting main billing in the Wolvie/Deadpool movie credits. 

I ended-up writing about the incident with Charley in one of my Overstreet market reports, trying to help make the collecting community aware that they really should read the truth about it directly from Charley's blog (providing a link right in the report).

So when things went down with Len Wein's widow, I can't imagine what must have been running through her mind when people began telling her that it was basically Houseroy being Houseroy. 

Maybe your book helps them, and others who find themselves in similar "stolen valor" situation, to better understand the play book behind the actions of these deplorables.

Really I could write a whole book on Roy Thomas as well.

Another Stan Lee without an ounce of the charm.

[Prince Namor]

On 9/20/2024 at 7:28 AM, comicwiz said:

I know you had mentioned your reasons for writing this book. I am appreciative of what you've written, and shared here.

I would add that before what took place with Christine Valada, there was another incident where the late, great Charles Lippincott had come to learn that Roy Thomas was taking credit for "stuff he did not do." It's summarized in this post, and it began when Liefeld posted a screenshot of a 1977 Star Wars pocketbook:

Sound familar? Liefeld asking "So Stan and Roy are both lying?"

The back and forth was basically Charley setting the record straight, and I guess eventually Liefeld relented on his "without Roy, there's no Star Wars", claiming no intent to stir the pot. Except for breaking out of the gate defending Stan and Roy. And I guess he came around to comment (being against) the Houseroy incident where he complained about not getting main billing in the Wolvie/Deadpool movie credits. 

I ended-up writing about the incident with Charley in one of my Overstreet market reports, trying to help make the collecting community aware that they really should read the truth about it directly from Charley's blog (providing a link right in the report).

So when things went down with Len Wein's widow, I can't imagine what must have been running through her mind when people began telling her that it was basically Houseroy being Houseroy. 

Maybe your book helps them, and others who find themselves in similar "stolen valor" situation, to better understand the play book behind the actions of these deplorables.

Is the blog post still up?

[mrc]

On 9/20/2024 at 1:58 AM, Mmehdy said:

this book…is going to change a lot of minds about the so-called marvel fairy tale history that Stan came up with everything

I wish people would stop saying this. Literally no one believes Stan 'came up with everything.' It's just lazy rhetoric.

[Prince Namor]

On 9/20/2024 at 1:28 PM, mrc said:

I wish people would stop saying this. Literally no one believes Stan 'came up with everything.' It's just lazy rhetoric.

No. It's NOT. Disney is still producing Documentaries that say it. People who's lives aren't invested in comic books believe it because it's all they've been taught. And there are plenty of comic people who are on the fence who just aren't sure because Roy Thomas' propaganda magazine contniues to push the lies.

Stan Lee for the last 20 years of life SAID IT - in public, on TV and UNDER OATH in a deposition. 

That HE created everything and then just assigned an artist. 

At the heart of this is Disney's NATURAL state of business - to protect their IP that they paid Billions for when they bought Marvel. They WANT people to believe that Lee created it all. That's why they created that documentary after paying off the estates of Ditko, Heck, Leiber, etc. And of course Kirby.

They figure no one will say anything now - theyve been paid off and... isn't that all they wanted? Just the money?

Maybe. I doubt Larry Lieber cares about the truth. That POS's been lying for 20 years saying he wrote Kirby's scripts for the Monster stories. That hack couldn't write anything for Kirby doing more than wiping his feet on. He's never been hired to write by anyone but a relative.

You can cry all you want about your hero. I'm going to spend the rest of my life shoving the truth right down the throat of the world.

[The humble Watcher lurking]

One key thing about Ditko and Kirby that went beyond their art was they were master storytellers. Their comics were like movies on pages. A bunch of people can draw art, but Kirby and Ditko could make a story come to life in comics. They were gold standard storytellers. 

[comicwiz]

On 9/19/2024 at 11:56 PM, Prince Namor said:

Is the blog post still up?

After Charley passed away, his wife Bumpy has been overwhelmed with managing his collection. While the blog is still up, it is an older format and I'm not sure how long it will function. Some of the operability issues are evident in trying to perform searches using the native search feature of the blogger platform. I think I got the summary of the four parter right below, with direct links, but at one time, the site was structured better to be able to navigate and find the posts easier. Nonetheless, here are what I think is his retelling (the truth) of past events on who was responsible for getting us the Star Wars comics:

Marvel comics
https://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/search/label/STAR WARS comics

Writing MARVEL STAR WARS PART 2
https://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/2015/03/it-sure-is-taking-long-time-toget-this.html

MARVEL STAR WARS COMICS PART 3
http://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/2015/04/marvel-star-wars-comics-part-3.html

MARVEL STAR WARS COMICS PART 4
https://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/2015/04/marvel-star-wars-comics-part-4.html

At the time this was going on, Charley was really bothered about what took place. He alleged for many years on his FB posts that he had been screwed by Lucas on royalties, and felt that what Stan and Roy were doing was just as bad, if not worse, because it was taking akncolwedgment and credit away from him, which included not only giving Marvel a sweetheart deal of fronting the entire 5-book deal, but as we would later learn, that the deal helped Marvel avert bankruptcy. I contacted him after I got my comped OS guide in August of 2016, with the screenshot below:

I recalled he was mostly upset that Stan and Roy had essentially used their influence and publishing access to erase his involvement and spearheading of the project, and I tried to encourage him to write about it, and tell the true account on his blog (which he did), and that the tides were changing in terms of more people becoming aware of their chicanery and deceptive ways. We should have listened to Kirby's warnings from the go, but better late than never.

Edited 1 hour ago by comicwiz

[Prince Namor]

On 9/20/2024 at 6:11 PM, comicwiz said:

After Charley passed away, his wife Bumpy has been overwhelmed with managing his collection. While the blog is still up, it is an older format and I'm not sure how long it will function. Some of the operability issues are evident in doing searches. I think I got the summary of the four parter right below, with direct links, but at one time, the site was structured better to be able to navigate and find the posts easier. Nonetheless, here are what I think is his rendition (the right one) of past events on who was responsible for getting us the Star Wars comics:

Marvel comics
https://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/search/label/STAR WARS comics

Writing MARVEL STAR WARS PART 2
https://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/2015/03/it-sure-is-taking-long-time-toget-this.html

MARVEL STAR WARS COMICS PART 3
http://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/2015/04/marvel-star-wars-comics-part-3.html

MARVEL STAR WARS COMICS PART 4
https://therealcharleslippincott.blogspot.com/2015/04/marvel-star-wars-comics-part-4.html

That stuff is GOLD. Copied and pasted to secure it's place for all time.

When I read Roy Thomas saying, "Like you, I've no wish in perpetuating a history which is false in any particulars. I've always hated that old quote from "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" about "When the legend becomes the truth, print the legend." It should always be the truth, never the legend unless the legend IS true, period.”

I spit my Red Bull out through my nose. What a load of . 

[comicwiz]

On 9/20/2024 at 7:34 AM, Prince Namor said:

That stuff is GOLD. Copied and pasted to secure it's place for all time.

When I read Roy Thomas saying, "Like you, I've no wish in perpetuating a history which is false in any particulars. I've always hated that old quote from "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" about "When the legend becomes the truth, print the legend." It should always be the truth, never the legend unless the legend IS true, period.”

I spit my Red Bull out through my nose. What a load of . 

Agreed, and I added a bit more to the post since posting it earlier. I'll remember to have coffee before starting a post next time