Stan Lee Lied - Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in the 'Origins of Marvel Comics' 11 11

[CGC Mike]

On 10/15/2024 at 12:39 PM, comicwiz said:

Using an alias, and phantom profile pic to boot.

Who are you, and what are your true intentions here if not to stir things up? 

Are you at all tied to the individual who initiated these baseless accusations against me earlier in the thread?

If you'd taken the time to read through the thread, and the specificity and context (which I've elaborated on fully already), you'd understand the individual who lodged these baseless accusations has revealed a fact pattern of attacking the OP, and those attempting to defend him.

If I see 1 more post like this, you will be banned from this topic.  You were warned not to do this.  I am disappointed.  BTW, this is not up for discussion publicly or privately.  It had better end here.

[Albert Tatlock]

[Mmehdy]

On 10/14/2024 at 11:44 PM, Prince Namor said:

 

Lee most likely had nothing to do with the first three appearances of Marvel's Thor.

I'm not aware of anything you've presented to disprove that. 

Whatever else you think I'm saying, based on cherry picking quotes is on you.

I agree....look what happened to the book when he walked away from it for a while...those in between issues were very inconsistent to say the least...Kirby 1-3 on board !

[Mmehdy]

On 10/15/2024 at 5:56 AM, JollyComics said:

I heard it few times before. We discussed about it here in a while ago while Stan Lee was alive. He was asked if that Spider-man costume inspired him or Jack Kirby told him about it.  Stan never answered or kept vaguely about it. The costume that was made in 1954 was long enough to inspire Timely Comics/Marvel Comics.  That company was only 10 miles away from Marvel Office.

Ben Cooper, Inc is now defunct since 1992.

Here is the information in 2015 - https://nypost.com/2015/07/14/did-stan-lee-steal-spider-man-from-a-brooklyn-costume-shop/

Yes we talked about it here. I remembered it well.

Kirby's Kids being the age  to wear that might of had an influence on Jack....it just goes to show everyone steals from everyone......

Edited October 15 by Mmehdy

[PreHero]

On 10/14/2024 at 3:49 AM, Zonker said:

Well, let's try it this way: If Stan in 1974 was referencing a recent-to-1974 radio interview, what relevance would that have to the overall story of being stuck on deciding what should be the next Marvel super-hero to come out some time prior to JIM #83?  That's the larger narrative that has the radio interview anecdote embedded within it.

To be honest after re-reading paragraph, I'm not sure what Stan meant.  My first impression was recent was in relation to 1974.  My original point, was there was a 1967 that covered similar ground.

Do we least agree a 1961 radio interview is unlikely?   Otherwise, there's an anonymous talk-show host who might also want to stake a claim to co-creating the MCU!  

[jimjum12]

On 10/15/2024 at 3:11 PM, PreHero said:

Do we least agree a 1961 radio interview is unlikely?

Radio was the biggest game around for promotion in those days. Getting an interview would have been easy. Since I don't belong to the camp that assumes ALL Stan did was lie, I'm not convinced that an interview didn't occur early 60's, just that the subject likely would not have been Thor. Sorry. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Stan was using Radio and Speaking engagements to promote when NO ONE else was ... 

Edited October 15 by jimjum12

[Mmehdy]

On 10/15/2024 at 12:24 PM, jimjum12 said:

Radio was the biggest game around for promotion in those days. Getting an interview would have been easy. Since I don't belong to the camp that assumes ALL Stan did was lie, I'm not convinced that an interview didn't occur early 60's, just that the subject likely would not have been Thor. Sorry. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Stan was using Radio and Speaking engagements to promote when NO ONE else was ... 

61.... marvel was not on any kind of radar......radio unklikely

Edited October 15 by Mmehdy

[jimjum12]

On 10/15/2024 at 4:28 PM, Mmehdy said:

61.... marvel was not on any kind of radar......

That's what you promote for .... what I said stands. How much marketing have you ever been involved in? From what I'm told, you do a fair amount. You people all think Stan was greedy and stupid, yet here we are, still talking about him and the multibillion dollar house he built. Please.  GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a frend of jesus)

He was smarter than anyone who has participated in this thread, either side. Yay, Stan!

 

[Mmehdy]

On 10/15/2024 at 1:38 PM, jimjum12 said:

That's what you promote for .... what I said stands. How much marketing have you ever been involved in? From what I'm told, you do a fair amount. You people all think Stan was greedy and stupid, yet here we are, still talking about him and the multibillion dollar house he built. Please.  GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a frend of jesus)

He was smarter than anyone who has participated in this thread, either side. Yay, Stan!

 

Let me calmy address your comments and debunk them:

1-Nobody is calling Stan Stupid....just plain lucky ...that this dropped into his lap....he ran with it as far as he could, and began to believe the stories he told over and over again to the point the script became r real to him..he is not stupid period.

2-Is Stan greedy....not any more than the rest of us if we were in that situation, talentless, and taking credit far above for what de did...he took as much as he could.

3-Stan is not smarter than anyone on this forum...he almost got away with it..but for one man....that is Chad...who with this 2024 book of the year in comic book history has turned the the collecting world and this board upside down.

The defensive reaction it is  normal and to be expected after years of programming....Stan the Man....well friend , he ain't no King....that is reserved for Jack, Steve,  John R and a whole host of real creators.

     Amen...brother!

Edited October 15 by Mmehdy

[jimjum12]

On 10/15/2024 at 4:58 PM, Mmehdy said:

Let me calmy address your comments and debunk them:

1-Nobody is calling Stan Stupid....just plain lucky ...that this dropped into his lap....he ran with it as far as he could, and began to believe the stories he told over and over again to the point the script became r real to him..he is not stupid period.

2-Is Stan greedy....not any more than the rest of us if we were in that situation, talentless, and taking credit far above for what de did...he took as much as he could.

3-Stan is not smarter than anyone on this forum...he almost got away with it..but for one man....that is Chad...who with this 2024 book of the year in comic book history has turned the the collecting world and this board upside down.

The defensive reaction it is  normal and to be expected after years of programming....Stan the Man....well friend , he ain't no King....that is reserved for Jack, Steve,  John R and a whole host of real creators.

     Amen...brother!

Sorry. Agree to disagree. 

People have attacked Stan for years; this is no new effort. I read these fanzines too.  GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[sfcityduck]

On 10/15/2024 at 1:38 PM, jimjum12 said:

How much marketing have you ever been involved in? From what I'm told, you do a fair amount.

 

On 10/15/2024 at 1:58 PM, Mmehdy said:

 

3-Stan is not smarter than anyone on this forum...he almost got away with it..but for one man....that is Chad...who with this 2024 book of the year in comic book history has turned the the collecting world and this board upside down.

 

Mitch clearly shows he knows how to do promotion. His hyperbole hits Stan Lee levels! And I mean that as a compliment.

[Mmehdy]

On 10/15/2024 at 2:12 PM, jimjum12 said:

Sorry. Agree to disagree. 

People have attacked Stan for years; this is no new effort. I read these fanzines too.  GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I agree with you there have been prior attacks, however, nothing compares to what the "Stan Lie Lied" book has done. Chad's research is amazing......

[Mmehdy]

On 10/15/2024 at 2:26 PM, sfcityduck said:

Mitch clearly shows he knows how to do promotion. His hyperbole hits Stan Lee levels! And I mean that as a compliment.

Who else has ever come close to this 300 plus  page indictment ...nobody...not hype....just the facts, sir!

[sfcityduck]

On 10/15/2024 at 2:27 PM, Mmehdy said:

I agree with you there have been prior attacks, however, nothing compares to what the "Stan Lie Lied" book has done. Chad's research is amazing......

Chaz. Carry on.

[sfcityduck]

On 10/15/2024 at 2:28 PM, Mmehdy said:

Who else has ever come close to this 300 plus  page indictment ...nobody...not hype....just the facts, sir!

No one's compiled such a book. But a lot of research has been done and a lot of arguments made in articles, blogs, message boards, etc.

I do appreciate Chaz/Chuck sharing that someone's mined the Lee archive at the NY public library and someone (same person?) is imaging the JIM 83 original art and both will bring new info to the debate. Those are articles/books I'm eager to read. 

For me the standard for all comic history books was set by Greg Sadowski on Basil Wolverton which deeply mined Basil's son Monte's archive materials. 

Edited October 15 by sfcityduck

[jimjum12]

On 10/15/2024 at 5:26 PM, sfcityduck said:

Mitch clearly shows he knows how to do promotion. His hyperbole hits Stan Lee levels! And I mean that as a compliment.

I hear he runs a right smart ad campaign there in the very pits of Hell, er, I mean California.  GOD BLESS ...

-jmboa friend of jesus)

Seeing as Mitch is straight OG, we should try to enlighten him re: the difference between debunk and disagree. 

[sfcityduck]

On 10/15/2024 at 2:58 PM, jimjum12 said:

I hear he runs a right smart ad campaign there in the very pits of Hell, er, I mean the paradise that is California.

I've never seen Mitch's ads but I don't live in beautiful San Diego. But since Mitch has been practicing law for 38 years without any disciplinary record, I think we can assume that he knows what he's doing as any ads he does run are subject to scrutiny and regulation by the State Bar. The fact he's been practicing that long also tells you he's had a successful career. So I don't doubt that Mitch knows how to run a smart ad campaign if that's what he's been doing. 

[Iconic1s]

On 10/15/2024 at 3:58 PM, Mmehdy said:

Let me calmy address your comments and debunk them:

1-Nobody is calling Stan Stupid....just plain lucky ...that this dropped into his lap....he ran with it as far as he could, and began to believe the stories he told over and over again to the point the script became r real to him..he is not stupid period.

2-Is Stan greedy....not any more than the rest of us if we were in that situation, talentless, and taking credit far above for what de did...he took as much as he could.

3-Stan is not smarter than anyone on this forum...he almost got away with it..but for one man....that is Chad...who with this 2024 book of the year in comic book history has turned the the collecting world and this board upside down.

The defensive reaction it is  normal and to be expected after years of programming....Stan the Man....well friend , he ain't no King....that is reserved for Jack, Steve,  John R and a whole host of real creators.

     Amen...brother!

What I don’t understand is how they are able to reprint Origin of Marvel Comics by Stan Lee on the 50 year anniversary, when it’s so obvious now that the book is at least one lie (big, small, or of omission) after the other.  Shouldn’t there be a disclaimer up front saying something like “Stan Lee Lied.”

It just seems wrong and irresponsible to reprint this… they will succeed in brainwashing an entirely new generation!

What we need is a box set with both books, the Origins book and the Stan Lee Lied book together… bound in leather!

 

[justadude]

On 10/14/2024 at 11:05 PM, ttfitz said:

I'm still way behind in this thread - which I keep meaning to stop reading but can't - so this is probably of little import by now (if it ever was of any import), but I just wanted to say that I too read your message to suggest that the Simon family have possession of Kirby art seemed - to use a legal term - hinky. And I have no reason to be biased against you (although I will admit that I find your continued use of derogatory names such as "Flashman" and "Houseroy" tend to undercut your positions, IMO).

I accept that it wasn't your intention to suggest that, but I don't think it was an unreasonable reading of what was said.

Thought the same thing.

I'm convinced this is either the greatest underground marketing campaign to cause people to buy a book or the foundations of research for Chaz Gower Lied: Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in Stan Lee Lied: Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in The Origins of Marvel Comics

[VintageComics]

On 10/15/2024 at 12:11 PM, PreHero said:

To be honest after re-reading paragraph, I'm not sure what Stan meant.  My first impression was recent was in relation to 1974.  My original point, was there was a 1967 that covered similar ground.

Do we least agree a 1961 radio interview is unlikely?   Otherwise, there's an anonymous talk-show host who might also want to stake a claim to co-creating the MCU!  

I don't know why it would be unlikely. 

Why is it such a hard stretch to believe that Stan was innovative enough to find a college or some public radio show in 1962 to do an interview on?

If radio was the biggest game in town, and it was free I'd have done it. Why not?

Innovation really just takes some brass balls and thinking outside the box, and Stan had both. 

That aside, I'm glad others find the paragraph difficult to assess and it's not just me. It is a bit of a mess, editorially. 

On 10/15/2024 at 1:58 PM, Mmehdy said:

The defensive reaction it is  normal

It's not a defensive reaction to the book. It's a defensive reaction to how the author reaches their conclusions, where I've already shown how the Stan Lee quote about Thor they took out of Origins to call a lie was misrepresented.

You're just giving everything a wholesale pass without any critical thinking, and I have a hard time understanding how you've worked in the legal field for so long with such a mindset when this is not how information and critical thinking works. 

On 10/15/2024 at 1:38 PM, jimjum12 said:

That's what you promote for .... what I said stands.

Smart marketing reaches the most people with the least amount of effort, and if there's one thing NOBODY can fault Stan for, it's his marketing skills. 

In fact, his greatest detractors and his greatest supporters all agree on only one thing: Stan was a master at marketing himself. 

Aside from his creative contributions, his marketing made Marvel a true competitor.

Edited October 16 by VintageComics