Stan Lee Lied - Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in the 'Origins of Marvel Comics' 11 11

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

On 10/8/2024 at 4:12 PM, mrc said:

On 10/8/2024 at 3:54 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Expand  

..........or, it's because his interpretation of his points is wrong?   

 

 

Edited October 9 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 10/8/2024 at 3:26 PM, VintageComics said:

I think that is the conclusion that most will agree with throughout this entire thread. 

Yep, this is an appeal to numbers and popularity, but what else is the measure of the success of Marvel's collaborative greatness between Lee and Kirby than the fact that most people believe that it's their greatest achievement. 

[Prince Namor]

You guys think I'M tough on Lee... Daniel shows no mercy. 

Daniel Greenberg

Top contributor

 

Ditko Wrote the Dialogue. Stan Lee Edited It.

Ditko is very clear that he wrote his stories and provided a "panel script" on a second page of typing paper. This is abundantly clear from the science portion of the science fiction in the first two appearances of the Sandman: the first written by Steve Ditko (ASM#4) and the second by Stan Lee over Dick Ayers art (ST#115).

Steve Ditko repeatedly gets the science RIGHT.

Stan Lee repeatedly gets the science WRONG.

Ditko:

"...all I hafta do is reform the particles again..."

"...Sandman reforms the particles of his index finger..."

"...the molecules of his body merged at that radio-active instant with the molecules of the sand under his feet..."

"...he wills his radiation-affected body to change its physical structure."

Lee:

"The molecules of his body turned to sand." WRONG! Molecules do not turn to sand.

"...the sandy molecules of his body..." WRONG! Molecules cannot be sandy.

"...simply altered the molecules of his body again..." WRONG. His molecules have already been altered when his body molecules merged with molecules of sand. The first story clearly established that Sandman reforms his body's particles. He's not "altering his molecules." The radiation already did that.

"...reform my sand molecules into separate particles..." There is no such thing as a "sand molecule." Sand is a particle made up of many molecules. If he has "sand molecules" then he must also have "body molecules." So where are they?

"Th-the water turned some of my sand particles to mud!" Just, no.

"I can still stretch my muddy molecules... making myself even larger." Say what?

"I still have enough excess heat in my body to more than double my normal strength." Yeah, that's not how heat works. Go home, Stan Lee. Writing's not for you.

In the first story, the science/science fiction elements are simply and clearly explained. That is smart. The writer knows what he is talking about, and knows how to KEEP IT SIMPLE.

In the second story, all the science is garbled and idiotic. The writer constantly overexplains, making everything tedious, overly complex and wrong. He is desperately trying to sound smart while proving he is not.

QED: The same writer could NOT have gotten the science fiction CONSISTENTLY right in the first story and then consistently BLUNDERED and BOTCHED basic science in the second story.

Lee collected the writer's pay, but Ditko wrote the stories for Spider-Man. Based on this, Ditko clearly also wrote the essential dialogue.

Stan Lee only altered Ditko's dialogue. The job of an editor.

Glad to hear alternate points of view, with a focus on light, not heat.

[comicwiz]

On 10/9/2024 at 4:12 AM, Prince Namor said:

You guys think I'M tough on Lee... Daniel shows no mercy. 

Daniel Greenberg

Top contributor

 

Ditko Wrote the Dialogue. Stan Lee Edited It.

Ditko is very clear that he wrote his stories and provided a "panel script" on a second page of typing paper. This is abundantly clear from the science portion of the science fiction in the first two appearances of the Sandman: the first written by Steve Ditko (ASM#4) and the second by Stan Lee over Dick Ayers art (ST#115).

Steve Ditko repeatedly gets the science RIGHT.

Stan Lee repeatedly gets the science WRONG.

Ditko:

"...all I hafta do is reform the particles again..."

"...Sandman reforms the particles of his index finger..."

"...the molecules of his body merged at that radio-active instant with the molecules of the sand under his feet..."

"...he wills his radiation-affected body to change its physical structure."

Lee:

"The molecules of his body turned to sand." WRONG! Molecules do not turn to sand.

"...the sandy molecules of his body..." WRONG! Molecules cannot be sandy.

"...simply altered the molecules of his body again..." WRONG. His molecules have already been altered when his body molecules merged with molecules of sand. The first story clearly established that Sandman reforms his body's particles. He's not "altering his molecules." The radiation already did that.

"...reform my sand molecules into separate particles..." There is no such thing as a "sand molecule." Sand is a particle made up of many molecules. If he has "sand molecules" then he must also have "body molecules." So where are they?

"Th-the water turned some of my sand particles to mud!" Just, no.

"I can still stretch my muddy molecules... making myself even larger." Say what?

"I still have enough excess heat in my body to more than double my normal strength." Yeah, that's not how heat works. Go home, Stan Lee. Writing's not for you.

In the first story, the science/science fiction elements are simply and clearly explained. That is smart. The writer knows what he is talking about, and knows how to KEEP IT SIMPLE.

In the second story, all the science is garbled and idiotic. The writer constantly overexplains, making everything tedious, overly complex and wrong. He is desperately trying to sound smart while proving he is not.

QED: The same writer could NOT have gotten the science fiction CONSISTENTLY right in the first story and then consistently BLUNDERED and BOTCHED basic science in the second story.

Lee collected the writer's pay, but Ditko wrote the stories for Spider-Man. Based on this, Ditko clearly also wrote the essential dialogue.

Stan Lee only altered Ditko's dialogue. The job of an editor.

Glad to hear alternate points of view, with a focus on light, not heat.

In the Nat Freeland article, you can see that Lee is a whiner, and clearly can't stand that Ditko could do it all and successfully on his own. This must be not too distant the whiner-crybaby state Jack Kirby encountered when he saw Lee crying about his nepotisticly gained work situation crumbling before him, when his Uncle told him he was shuttering Marvel. Not more than 5 years after Kirby saved his and Marvel's bacon, he's making veild threats that Ditko better not let S-M slip. These are NOT the words of a showman, because a real showman would want the show to go on. Nope. This is a cowering meglomaniac who has to be at the center of attention, credit and pay at all times. 

...THE LAST STEVE DITKO'S SPIDER-MAN...

At the end of 1965, when a reporter named Nat Freedland visited the Marvel offices for a profile piece for the New York Herald Tribune, he found Lee in an unusual candid mood. "I don't plot Spider-Man anymore", he said. "Steve Ditko, the artist, has been doing the stories. I guess I'll leave him alone until the sales starts to slip. Since Spidey got so popular, Ditko thinks he's the genius of the world. We were arguing so much over plot lines, I told him to start making up his own stories. He won't let anybody else ink his drawings either. I'll never know what he'll come up with, but it's interesting to work that way..."

Shortly after the Herald Tribune piece appeared, Ditko dropped off his pages with Sol Brodsky and announced that when he finished his current assignment, he would not be doing any more work for Marvel Comics. Sol rushed into Lee's office to tell him, but Ditko made up his mind. He even wrote a letter to Jack Kirby, encouraging him to join his exodus....

By 1967, with the forthcoming Grantray-Lawrence cartoon, merchandising, action figures, games...someone was about to make a lot of money...and it wasn't the person that sat at the drawing board. When Lee asked Ditko years later, if he would return for one LAST SPIDER-MAN STORY, Ditko replied, "Not until Goodman pays me the royalties he owes me."

- MARVEL COMICS: THE UNTOLD STORY

Edited October 9 by comicwiz

[Prince Namor]

On 10/9/2024 at 6:51 PM, comicwiz said:

By 1967, with the forthcoming Grantray-Lawrence cartoon, merchandising, action figures, games...someone was about to make a lot of money...and it wasn't the person that sat at the drawing board. When Lee asked Ditko years later, if he would return for one LAST SPIDER-MAN STORY, Ditko replied, "Not until Goodman pays me the royalties he owes me."

I wonder where Sean Howe got this? 

[comicwiz]

On 10/9/2024 at 8:52 AM, Prince Namor said:

I wonder where Sean Howe got this? 

In 2005, Strange and Stranger: The World of Steve Ditko, Lee says “Much later, I asked Ditko if he would ever consider coming back to do one final Spider-Man story. To my surprise, he said, ‘Not until Goodman pays me the royalties he owes me!’ I had no idea what he was talking about, as Martin usually kept me apprised of such things.”

[Ken Aldred]

On 10/9/2024 at 3:22 AM, Prince Namor said:

"Jack Kirby was the William Blake of comics and New Gods was his masterpiece, an epic cosmic war between evil gods and good gods. The story opens with the cosmic seeker Metron, an amoral science god, who travels about the universe in a Mobius chair, which is like a comfy version of the Tardis. He's able to go anywhere he likes just by sitting, so he's very much the god of couch potatoes, and in this one Metron is travelling to the very edge of the universe. There are three pages of giants who are miles across – very reminiscent of Blake – with suffering Gnostic presences chained to gigantic rocks. Kirby's descriptions are really great: he talks about one man whose heart takes a billion years to beat once. It was the first time that comics came with a cosmic dimension. They actually started to feel biblical in scale; that was a breakthrough for the type of stories they were able to tell."

- Grant Morrison, The Guardian, July 22, 2011

Impressive praise from one of the greatest ever comic book writers.

[Prince Namor]

On 10/9/2024 at 7:57 PM, comicwiz said:

In 2005, Strange and Stranger: The World of Steve Ditko, Lee says “Much later, I asked Ditko if he would ever consider coming back to do one final Spider-Man story. To my surprise, he said, ‘Not until Goodman pays me the royalties he owes me!’ I had no idea what he was talking about, as Martin usually kept me apprised of such things.”

Sounds like something Lee made up, because he assumes every one is as motivated by money as he was.

If Ditko was after money, he would've taken it when Lee reached out about the co-creator status to him during the first Spider-man movie hoopla. Ditko could've gotten paid big right then and there. I don't believe it was ever about the money. I believe it was over the work he'd done that Lee was credited for. 

[Prince Namor]

On 10/9/2024 at 8:03 PM, Ken Aldred said:

Impressive praise from one of the greatest ever comic book writers.

Yep.

Grant is smart enough, and well read enough, to recognize the references in some of Kirby's work. Where... some... see Kirby's dialogue as strange at times, they don't realize it simply sounds strange to their ears, because it comes from a literary source they're not familiar with. Hell, I didn't recognize it until I started reading deeply into it by people who did their homework and showed just how well read Kirby was in his writing.  

There's a whole Facebook Group devoted to Kirby's Dialogue. 

[comicwiz]

On 10/9/2024 at 9:42 AM, Prince Namor said:

Sounds like something Lee made up, because he assumes every one is as motivated by money as he was.

If Ditko was after money, he would've taken it when Lee reached out about the co-creator status to him during the first Spider-man movie hoopla. Ditko could've gotten paid big right then and there. I don't believe it was ever about the money. I believe it was over the work he'd done that Lee was credited for. 

Add another tick to the lie count.

Edited October 9 by comicwiz

[Mmehdy]

On 10/8/2024 at 3:13 PM, Aman619 said:

youre always 120% for or against something, not a great example of moderation.  And sure the truth is the truth...  Which truth?  Everyone here agrees that Stan got and took too much credit for Marvel  Nuff Said.  The rest is character assassination plus, for good measure, deification on the other side.  Regardless of the eye openingly impressive amount of research done for the book -- which is a major feat -- the problem remains one of cherry-picking what works best.  It's delivered less like an "opinion" than Moses coming down with the Word of G-d.

I'd get defensive and snippy too if I were the author.  But after a while, the rest of us just roll our eyes at the stubborn and dismissive nature of the replies..exhaustingly slapping down all points made against it, and questions about details.    

But -- the "truth is the truth" right?   too bad its handled in such an off-putting manner.  

I am 99% on SM side...120% does not exist in the real world....

Research means credibility.....and this book does hit the 99% mark....

Stating the truth is not defensive ...it is factual.......

Read the book and come back at me.....

[jjonahjameson11]

On 10/8/2024 at 11:04 AM, AndyFish said:

Wow 86 pages.

Stan was prone to hyperbole.  To the general public who know these characters only from the movies he was the creator of the Marvel Universe.  To those of us who have actually spent time reading the books we know that's not the case.   One need only look at STAN LEE CREATES THE DC UNIVERSE or STRIPPERELLA to see what Stan comes up with on his own.   Jack Kirby (who I consider the King of Comics) was an amazing visionary but his dialogue was often clunky and at worst embarrassing.   Same goes for Steve Ditko (Prince of Comics), read his MISTER A to see what a solo version of Spider-Man might have been like.

There was some magical combination of these teams.

Ignorance is not unusual-- how many "hardcore" comics fans barely know who Will Eisner is and the massive contributions to the industry he made that paved the way for guys like Lee and Kirby-- Lee respected him so much he wanted him to take over as EIC of Marvel when he was leaving but Eisner declined because he didn't know or like Superheroes (source?  Will Eisner told me).

Congrats on the book.  Best of luck with it.   We all have our own opinions and I respect that.

Will Eisner…the true King of Comics!

[VintageComics]

On 10/8/2024 at 4:41 PM, Prince Namor said:

On 10/8/2024 at 3:26 PM, VintageComics said:

Correct, and I pointed this out near the start of the thread.

The absence of any semblance of balance from the OP's side, and the venom and vitriol being spewn about Stan Lee and anyone else who would dare disagree with the author who get insults like:

1) LOL

2) "you're a Marvel Zombie"

3) "you were taught to hate New Gods"

4) "you're blind because of your hero worship"

...these accusations do NOTHING to advance the discussion and everything to show that the clip is empty and that there's nothing left in the chamber to debate with.

Expand  

Those comments were made as a generalization - not toward anyone specifically.

They're generalizations you've stated about most if not all people that don't agree with you. It's an ad hominem attack. You're throwing shade at every person who disagrees with you, as though they're the unreasonable ones. 

If RMA was fact checking you the way he fact checked everyone else's debate tactics, the length of this thread would double. 

On 10/8/2024 at 4:41 PM, Prince Namor said:

What evidence have you proposed?

It doesn't matter what evidence anyone proposes because you keep moving the goalposts. It's your central debate tactic. 

The fact that you don't see yourself doing it is far more worrisome. 

On 10/8/2024 at 4:41 PM, Prince Namor said:

On 10/8/2024 at 3:26 PM, VintageComics said:

For example, you pit quotes from Stan and Jack against each other, when they're not even talking about the same thing.

They were talking about the creation of Thor.

Correct. In the quotes you provided:

i) Kirby was generalizing about how he came up with some of his ideas over the years. 

ii) Stan was specifically talking about the gift of flight as being his idea.

You still think they're talking about the exact same thing and worse, you believe the two quotes contradict each other. 

Everyone can see that they don't.

I'm not sure what else can be said when the use of logic isn't the point of the discussion. 

 

Edited October 9 by VintageComics

[PopKulture]

On 10/9/2024 at 2:46 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Will Eisner…the true King of Comics!

As great a talent as he was, Eisner had more people ghosting for him than probably any other artist, including Bob Kane. 

[Ken Aldred]

On 10/10/2024 at 12:29 AM, PopKulture said:

As great a talent as he was, Eisner had more people ghosting for him than probably any other artist, including Bob Kane. 

It was really only in the late 40s that he was doing most of the writing and artwork, and you get the really classic Spirit Sections, after he returned from the war.

Edited October 9 by Ken Aldred

[Prince Namor]

On 10/10/2024 at 5:40 AM, VintageComics said:

They're generalizations you've stated about most if not all people that don't agree with you. It's an ad hominem attack. You're throwing shade at every person who disagrees with you, as though they're the unreasonable ones.

No. They're generalizations about Lee fans in particular. I deal with them every day on Facebook. 

And I nest my direct responses. So that they are direct respones. 

On 10/10/2024 at 5:40 AM, VintageComics said:

If RMA was fact checking you the way he fact checked everyone else's debate tactics, the length of this thread would double. 

Example?

You'll have none.

On 10/10/2024 at 5:40 AM, VintageComics said:

It doesn't matter what evidence anyone proposes because you keep moving the goalposts. It's your central debate tactic. 

I'm still on the THOR FLYING, DUDE.

YOU are the one who moved it.

Get it straight.

On 10/10/2024 at 5:40 AM, VintageComics said:

The fact that you don't see yourself doing it is far more worrisome. 

Correct. In the quotes you provided:

i) Kirby was generalizing about how he came up with some of his ideas over the years. 

ii) Stan was specifically talking about the gift of flight as being his idea.

You still think they're talking about the exact same thing and worse, you believe the two quotes contradict each other. 

Everyone can see that they don't.

I'm not sure what else can be said when the use of logic isn't the point of the discussion. 

I get it, Delic. You have NOTHING to show proof that Lee came up with Thor flying other than, "Lee said so."

So you nit pick this insignificant detail that means nothing.

I GET IT.

You have nothing.

YOU LOST.

Either continue the DEBATE on the SUBJECT - Proof that Lee came up with the idea - which you can't - or QUIT.

Because I have provided FIVE reasons that show Lee most likely DIDN'T and a SIXTH one I still haven't unveiled yet.

So come on, Delic. Stop making excuses. 

As you would say: EVERYONE CAN SEE IT - YOU'VE LOST.

Your move, slugger.

Edited October 10 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

 

ESSAYs and TALKING POINTS from ‘Stan Lee Lied: Your Handy Guide to All of the LIES in ‘The Origins of Marvel Comics’. (The Book that Stan Lee Fans and Marvel Comics DON’T Want You to Read!) - Available now on Amazon!

 

STAN LEE MEDIA - Let’s Keep That on the Down Low!

One of the things that I didn't talk about in my book that I could've spent more time on, especially in a book called Stan Lee LIED, was one of his BIGGEST lies…

No, not Marvel Value Stamps. 

Yes, Lee DID promise in the mid-70s, that if you cut those stamps out of your comics and collected them in your Marvel Value Stamp book (which you had to purchase through the mail for 50 cents), you could win… well you weren’t SURE what you won… you had to send a self-addressed stamped envelope to Phil Seuling to see what the discount was to get into his New York Comic Art Convention Show.

If you bought 100 Marvel Comics in 1975, at 25 cents each, that would be $25.50 you spent, in order to get a discount to a comic book show that probably cost less than $5 to get into in 1975… Hmmm. Lee and Marvel of course promised more prizes and surprises later, but… the surprise for some was that nothing ever was actually given.

No, we’re on to something much bigger. As Lee got bigger, and his lifestyle got bigger - he needed bigger scams - and here we have one of his biggest.

Most people don't really know the story of Stan Lee Media because Marvel or Stan Lee Incorporated or somebody has done a great job of keeping it on the down low. It sort of glosses over it on his Wikipedia page, but… here I am to give you a more clear understanding of it!

So let's set the stage for this:

 

It's 1998, and Marvel is in trouble again financially. It seems that for the first 50 years of ‘Marvel Comics’, the only time that it was profitable and not on the verge of some type of falling apart or bankruptcy or whatever was when Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko were giving ideas that made it successful or when Jim Shooter was running it.

1958? Getting ready to close down. 1978? On the verge of bankruptcy. 1998? Declaring bankruptcy. The missing decades there: Kirby and Ditko's ideas in the 60s and Jim Shooter’s, organization and bringing in real creative talent in the 80’s. Just sayin’.  

At this point, 1998, Marvel Comics still didn't have a Big Screen Superhero Movie. They were still a few years away from that. Superman had four already. Batman had just finished ITS fourth movie. 

Marvel?

Sony’s first Spider-man movie was 4 years away, Fox’s X-Men was still 2 years away, and Marvel itself was 10 years away from the first Iron Man movie.

Who were the most popular characters in the world???

By 1998, Marvel Comics, run by Isaac Perlmutter had declared bankruptcy and decided to NOT re-up Stan Lee’s contract. I guess they figured, his name hadn't done a damn thing for them, why keep him around? Of course, Lee is furious.

He puts together a partnership with a two-time convicted felon, Peter Paul - Lee had a history, post-Marvel of deals with shady characters - and creates Stan Lee Media (SLM). But it's just a dot com company with no money and intellectual property in it. What they need is investors. So Lee plays dumb and makes people think that he’s bringing all of the characters from Marvel to Stan Lee Media.

Can you imagine?

People fall all over themselves to invest in the company. A brand new company with all of those characters and you have a chance to invest in it on the ground floor?

What he doesn’t say is that at the same time he is putting Stan Lee Media together, he is also negotiating with Marvel Comics for a new contract. And naturally, part of that negotiation is his agreement that he no longer claims the rights to those characters - in exchange for a lifetime contract. The Lee fanatics used to say that Lee never claimed that he actually owned the characters - WRONG - here he had specifically said he did and scared Marvel so much that they gave him a $1 million a year (plus perks) contract (oh, plus movie points) for the rest of his life. 

The REST of his LIFE. 

Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko probably rolled over in their graves.

 

(BARRON'S) November 1998 -- a month after assigning his intellectual property to Stan Lee Media -- Lee had gone to Marvel claiming half-ownership of Spider-Man, the X-Men and other characters, since Marvel had cancelled his previous rights assignment in its bankruptcy. Lee got a new contract for up to $1 million in annual salary and 10% of movie and TV profits, assigning Marvel his rights in those characters.  

 

Strangely - and you have to SUBSCRIBE to be able to look that up - Barron’s is one of the few who reported on this at time, that you can still access information on it.

Where did the reporting go on this topic?

 

So Stan Lee Media shoots straight up in value and then the slow realization begins that none of those Marvel characters would be a part of it. Slowly it turns the stock into worthless . They TRIED to prop things up with, ‘A new era of Stan Lee ideas’, mainly fueled by gullible dunces creating horrible ideas for the guy to let him sign his name to. It didn’t work.

Why didn’t Lee himself come up with ideas?

Seriously?

Do I have to say it?

Because Stan Lee wasn’t a writer or a real creator. Without someone doing the work for him to sign his name to, he had nothing.  

 

Example: How did Lee fail so spectacularly in Hollywood?

He was taking meetings (go read about it) with Michael Jackson and RZA and Francis Ford Coppola… they all were in awe of the man who… created the Marvel Universe?

Like Howard the Duck, Lee was literally trapped in a world that he never made. He took meetings with everyone over the years. He had opportunity after opportunity to create something for any one of the celebrities and creative people he met with. But he kept waiting for THEM to give HIM ideas, not vice versa.

In the end, Lee would be a comic con signing celebrity, propped up like the boss in the movie ‘Weekend at Bernie’s’. Existing to make the fans happy, with no expectation to create anything.

He came to Hollywood in 1981. He’d finally become an actor - just not the one he’d hoped to be - settling on playing a cameo in many of the Marvel Movies.

Deep inside he’d hope to show he could still be a viable creator… but he had to settle for vapid fame, and a big Marvel contract. In the end, the fans he’d created, decided what they wanted him to be. Just like one of those twist-ending stories…

 

Strangely… much of the information about the early days of Stan Lee Media and its relationship to the Marvel characters has vanished from the internet. As if, maybe people will forget…

But the investors DIDN’T forget.

In 2009 they sued Stan Lee Media, and Marvel Comics:

 

“Stan Lee, the comics creator, and Marvel Entertainment were among the defendants named in a lawsuit filed on Monday in federal court in Manhattan by investors who say they are owed profits from films and other works that feature Marvel characters, The Associated Press reported.”

- New York Times, January 27, 2009

 

“Shareholders from the ill-fated .com enterprise, Stan Lee Media, are seeking $750 million in profits made from films and other works based on characters created by Stan Lee.  High-powered attorney Martin Garbus, who has argued four major cases before the Supreme Court, has filed a suit on behalf of a number of Stan Lee Media stockholders including Jose Abadin and Nelson Thall, claiming that they were harmed when Marvel and Lee transferred ownership of Lee’s creations from Stan Lee Media to Marvel in a 1998 agreement, which was supposedly signed a month after Lee had assigned his rights to Stan Lee Media.  Lee’s 1998 agreement with Marvel was the basis for a 2002 lawsuit by Lee against Marvel, which was settled confidentially in 2005.”

- ICv2, January 27, 2009

 

So did Stan Lee end up going to jail for that?

LOL. Uh, no. Somehow, he got through it unscathed.

None of what happened later would have happened at all, without Lee promising those characters were going to be a part of Stan Lee Media. But somehow, Lee dodged it.

Of course, Peter Paul, his partner, the two-time convicted felon did NOT dodge it. Another in a long line of people who worked for Stan Lee that got screwed over in dealing with him.

The man that so many people looked up to as a father figure - as somebody sweet and wonderful - as somebody who they got their first Marvel Comic book written by him, was in fact a very ruthless backstabbing, lying conniving goniff. 

He screwed over Martin Goodman, who gave him a 30+ year job that helped him build his wealth throughout his life, where most of the time he didn't even have to be in the office.  

He screwed over Goodman's son Chip, which is partially how he screwed over Martin by stealing the publisher position from him (and running the business to the verge of bankruptcy over the next five years.)

He screwed over Jack Kirby, who not only saved his job but, along with Steve Ditko, gave all of the ideas that helped make Marvel Comics successful. He screwed them both over.

He screwed over Roy Thomas, who basically was told he would be the number one guy after Lee left. Thomas knows some secrets about the 60’s that, unfortunately, we may never hear, because he was Lee’s lap dog, and because they would eventually reconcile. Lee gave him a cushy newspaper strip to ghostwrite for him, and in exchange, Thomas would print his pro-Lee propaganda for eternity.

He screwed over Marvel Comics, threatening to take characters that he didn't really create, and in exchange for them, receive a lifetime contract. Technically, that's blackmail. (Lee would later sue Marvel for not paying what he believed he was owed from the movies - but even worse than that, in 2007 his lawyers claimed he DID NOT give Marvel copyright interests in the characters and sued them for that!)

He screwed over Peter Paul, even though he was a pretty shady character in the first place and somebody who you have to question why Lee would have that relationship with in the first place. Paul took it on the chin for Stan Lee Media, while Lee walked away free and clear.

And of course he screwed over those who invested heavily in Stan Lee Media on the promise that those characters would be a part of it.

Can you believe I wrote a book called Stan Lee Lied, and people are taking me to task for it?

Jimmy Freaking Cricket on Popsicle Stick, this guy might be one of the biggest scam artists in the history of ALL media.

 

Every time I go into a conversation about, especially about my book, Lee fanatics always say the same thing: you're not telling all the sides of the STORY.  You're not telling Lee’s side of the story. (This is despite the fact that my book QUOTES DIRECTLY FROM Lee’s side of the story. Duh.)

Well, when it comes to Stan Lee Media, I would LOVE to hear Lee’s side of the story, but unfortunately, they're keeping HIS side of the story quiet. This is something they DON’T want to have a conversation about. So the next time you’re having a debate with someone about Lee’s shady dealings from the Silver Age and they say, “why don’t you tell both sides?”… ask them about Stan Lee Media.

Because Stan Lee made sure he kept HIS side of the story as quiet as possible.

[CGC Mike]

On 10/10/2024 at 4:11 AM, Prince Namor said:

I get it, Delic. You have NOTHING to show proof that Lee came up with Thor flying other than, "Lee said so."

So you nit pick this insignificant detail that means nothing.

I GET IT.

You have nothing.

YOU LOST.

Either continue the DEBATE on the SUBJECT - Proof that Lee came up with the idea - which you can't - or QUIT.

Because I have provided FIVE reasons that show Lee most likely DIDN'T and a SIXTH one I still haven't unveiled yet.

So come on, Delic. Stop making excuses. 

As you would say: EVERYONE CAN SEE IT - YOU'VE LOST.

Your move, slugger.

This has reached the point of being contentious.  Please refrain from this to avoid the thread being shut down.   

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 10/9/2024 at 3:40 PM, VintageComics said:

If RMA was fact checking you the way he fact checked everyone else's debate tactics, the length of this thread would double. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 10/9/2024 at 3:40 PM, VintageComics said:

If RMA was fact checking you the way he fact checked everyone else's debate tactics, the length of this thread would double.