The dollars and cents of collecting-Your opinions.

[Lofwyr]

take that stance as well...to a point. I see no point in spending 20 bucks for a Fine-, when I can buy a NM for 60.... I'll spend 60 for the NM, then 2 for the Good reading copy.

 

That's the problem these days, anything even remotely graded as "MINT" commands outrageous multiples because everyone plans on slabbing it. I know mint books have always had multiples attached but it's ridiculous when key books are starting to reach CGC prices in unslabbed condition. The disparity between VF and NM prices are often huge whether slabbed or not. The VF/Fines start to become far better values in the long run. I really doubt people will still be paying 5-6x guide for CGC books down the road. In my opinion anything above a 9.0 is assigned pretty abritrarily by CGC graders. They still haven't provided a scientific rhyme or reason for giving the same book a 9.8 and an identical one a 9.2

 

Then there's various incidences of possible corruption where tampered books have been sent back for blue label regrading (heritage incidences) which make me wonder about the whole operation.

 

 

[sfilosa]

The statement about buying a Fine- for $20 and a NM for $60 does not make sense.

 

Why:

 

Becasue if a Fine- book sold for $20, the NM book would sell for around $200 based on the current multiples.

 

Nice Silver Age books CGC'd in NM- go for around 150% of guide while the CGC'd NM goes for 300%.

 

Based on that, you can buy two NM- books for everyone one NM book. That to me seems a little crazy. I have several NM- books that I think could be graded NM and I have several NM books that I think should be a NM-. Just too close to call.

 

 

 

[LordRahl]

They still haven't provided a scientific rhyme or reason for giving the same book a 9.8 and an identical one a 9.2

 

Not sure where you're getting this from. The difference between 9.2s and 9.8s is pretty significant.

[chrisco37]

The difference between 9.2s and 9.8s is pretty significant.

 

Definately. I think that both Murph and AK touched on this earlier on. While a 9.8 and a 10.0 may be hard to or near impossible to distinguish, if you have a few CGC books, it is pretty easy to distinguish the difference between a 9.2 and a 9.8. I'm pretty sure I could pick out 9.0's, 9.2's, 9.4's, and 9.6's if copies of the exact same issue were laid out in front of me.

 

Chris

[joe_collector]

The range I find difficult is 9.4, 9.6 and 9.8, with special notice to 9.6 vs. 9.8. I KNOW I have 9.6 and 9.8 books here that you would never, ever be able to tell apart, just as I've seen some scary CGC 9.8 copies that you;d think are 9.2-9.4 at best.

 

But yeah, CGC 9.2's and most 9.4's are pretty easy to tell from the higher grades.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I don't know about anyone else, but my 9.2's LOOK better than my 9.4's....and the only difference between most of my 9.6's and 9.8's, are the label.

[joe_collector]

I'll agree with you on the CGC 9.6 and 9.8 books, especially those graded at different "CGC eras".

[Lofwyr]

Not sure where you're getting this from. The difference between 9.2s and 9.8s is pretty significant.

 

Personal experience. I've resubmitted books before and they've come back higher in the 9 range. Books I felt were graded as slabbed "borderline" CGC 9.2's have always come back better. Maybe I was just lucky but that tells me something right there.

 

 

[LordRahl]

Absolutely I agree that some 9.2s look better and could come back 9.4. I also agree with JC that the difference between a 9.6 and 9.8 is sometimes difficult to see. But I have a problem believing you can resub a 9.2 and get a 9.8. Way too big of difference between those grades. Maybe a 9.6 to a 9.8. But grading is subjective, not a science so I can understand that. Granted it would be nice if it was exact every time but let's face it unless we have computers grading books it will never happen.

[THE_BEYONDER]

but let's face it unless we have computers grading books it will never happen.

 

Computers grading books........My only question is: Who will write the program? Could all COLLECTORS agree on an EXACT grading scale?

 

[hammer-migration]

Lord R.,

Why so hard to believe that a 9.2 could be re-submitted and return as a 9.8? How about the Cage books. There was an 8.0 that came back a 9.2, and a 7.5 that returned with a 9.0, not to mention a restored 5.5 that returned as an unrestored 5.5? From MY viewing experience, some 9.2s have a helluva' lot more in common with a 9.8 than an 8.0 does with a 9.2 .

If you're in God's good graces (and OTHER "higher earthbound powers that be"), ANY book can return on a re-submit as ANYTHING. I'm STILL trying to figure out how a book with 24 separate 1/4" diameter holes punched through the spine area (8 sheafs of paper X 3) was graded 9.2, apparent or not. THAT mystery rivals "the Lost Squadron's" flight into the Bermuda Triangle!

[highlite23]

Well I think we all can agree that grading IS subjective, at best. Thats one of the major reasons i don't like grading services, I used to be really into Sports Cards, and the entire grading frenzy killed it for me.

 

Comics, are easier, because i get something more out of them.............The Story.

 

Who knows, the grading guy make get into a big fight with his wife before work and all his books are 5's because he's peeved.

[LordRahl]

That 8.0 to 9.2 debacle aside I have yet to see a 9.8 that has any but the tiniest flaws. Most of the 9.8s I've seen in person I haven't been able to find any flaws. I know that I'm looking at it thru the plastic shell but still. Plenty of 9.2s that I couldn't distinguish from a 9.4 but I think once you get to that 9.8 grade the differences are pretty apparent. This is from my experience with the books I've seen so obviously there is a pretty good margin of error.

[clobberintime]

I have a lot of cgc books - mainly pre-1970 Marvel stuff and i tend to focus on keys and favorite covers so i have multiples on many issues. For example I have Hulk Ann 1 in 9.2,9.4 and 9.6 - and the 9.4 looks the best but you can barely tell the difference between the 3! I have other issues in the same grade spread but with the 9.2 looking the best in my opinion. 9.8s usually do look truly perfect and it is hard to confuse them with a 9.0 or 9.2 but between 9.4 and 9.8 most books look about the same unless you have that cgc label to tell you which is best. I think the grade spread used by cgc between 9.2 and 10 is a genius of marketing and money making - spurring specs to try to hit the lottery and creating these huge prices leaps for very minor aesthetic changes in the appearance of books.

[greggy]

Yeah...I got screwed on that 9.4!

[blowout]

I think the grade spread used by cgc between 9.2 and 10 is a genius of marketing and money making - spurring specs to try to hit the lottery and creating these huge prices leaps for very minor aesthetic changes in the appearance of books

 

You have just about summed up the CGC frenzy right there. The only way this kind of grade spread could EVER work in practice is with the advent of an 'all seeing' grading authority.

 

Just to play devils advocate here, and I am just talking about Ultra High Grade when I say this:

Do people think that grading standards have really IMPROVED, or have they just gone past all realistic levels of asthetic measurement and into pure money making territory?

[clobberintime]

Well when i fork out the money for an upgrade on a 9.4 or 9.6 I often feel a little disappointed when I compare a 9.0 or 9.2 with a 9.4! I guess I would really like to see a visible and marked increase in appearance to justify the price increase. Is that Hulk ann1 9.6 really worth $600 more than the 9.4 which looks better to me anyway? I think the best value for money in this stuff is books between 8.5 and 9.2. There are some great looking 8.5 books - most dealers used to call them nm or nm- anyway.

[Lofwyr]

I think the best value for money in this stuff is books between 8.5 and 9.2. There are some great looking 8.5 books - most dealers used to call them nm or nm- anyway.

 

I completely agree with this which is why I buy lots of slabbed VFs because i've often seen them underpriced. Even for 9.0's it's easy to get good deals on most books.

From 9.2 to 9.8 the price gap gets ridiculous and becomes a gambler/fool's game.

 

 

 

 

 

[sfilosa]

What needs to be considered is the difference in price you have to pay for a 9.2 or a 9.4.

 

If it is a key book that sells for $1,000 in 9.2 then you have to probably have to pay $2,000-2,500 for a 9.4.

 

That's the problem. The price between a 9.2 and 9.4 is a double in market value. If it was only a 10-15% difference it wouldn't be as big of a deal.

 

And while you would think you could be able to grade between a 9.2 and 9.4, don't kid yourself. There are many miscut, poorly manufactured 9.4 (especially pedigree copies) that most people would not even give a 9.0 grade.

 

I realize grading is subjective but the money paid for a book is not (it is exact).

 

 

[Rob]

From 9.2 to 9.8 the price gap gets ridiculous and becomes a gambler/fool's game.

 

That's my thought exactly. I stay away from the speculation pricing of 9.2-9.8's because there's not enough historical market data, or accurate supply forecasting. I'm not yet comfortable paying $350 for a CGC 9.6 book that guides for $60 in NM. There's not enough data that says that's a sound investment. The guys who are paying for these books (and you know who you are ) are putting alot of faith in the hope that these books will increase in value.

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one who could have bought the 9.8 Hulk 181 without serious financial damage, but choose not to buy comics like that because of its foolishness. For now, I'll stick with the budget I've set for myself for this hobby, and spend the rest of my money on other things. I hope these high rollers aren't carrying a cent of debt, because that would be stupid!