First Full Appearance?

[12c_Comic]

I notice that for Wolverines first appearances it is Hulk #180,but is only a cameo.His first full appearance is Hulk #181,and in the slabbed copy is stated that way by CGC.Then why is Fantastic Four #48 which is Galactus first appearance and also a cameo,but F.F. #49 as Galactus first full appearance is not stated that way by CGC.....any reason why?

[OldGuy]

Because CGC/Overstreet says so.

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

Check out the discussion of cameos/first app.s in another thread here, where I state my personal opinion about the use of these terms in the Guide. By my standards, the listing of the first app. of Wolverine as a cameo is entirely inaccurate. Maybe we can fix that later on.

 

Arnold

[OldGuy]

"Check out the discussion of cameos/first app.s in another thread here"

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=comicgen&Number=156285&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

Thanks OldGuy!

[joe_collector]

The notation that FF 48 is Galactus' first appearance is wrong, and I can remember back when FF 49 was accorded that status. It seems to have changed with CGC... maybe a few dealers have cases of FF 48 and none of FF 49 (one truly undervalued book BTW)?

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

Um, no. Galactus does make his first appearance on the final page of #48 in the last full panel, which is most of the page, where he declares "SO SPEAKS GALACTUS!" No doubt about, he's appearing all right.

 

Check out the reprint in the Essential FF Vol. 3 if you don't believe me .

 

Arnold

[musicmeta]

While Hulk 180 is Wolverines first appearance, he is in only one panel so the definition of a cameo is only 1(or 2?) panels I believe.

[joe_collector]

That's a CAMEO, not a full first appearance.

[greggy]

Dammit, who cares? The Surfer's the more important character!

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

Well, loathe as I am to get into anal details here, strictly speaking it's his first appearance if he never appeared anywhere before and even if all he did was poke his head in to ask if he's on yet. "First Appearance" as far as I'm concerned means "First Time You See This Guy Since He's Never Appeared Before." Now if you want to qualify that by saying "BRIEF First Appearance," fine, but it's *still* a first appearance.

 

As I said in the other thread, I think the word "cameo" has been grossly misused and still is. By the most common definition of the word, the most familiar definition with which that word is associated in the English language, "cameo" means a brief appearance by a *familiar* or *prominent* figure in a *significant* role. Therefore, a cameo as far as I'm concerned can NEVER be the same as a first appearance of a character. They can't be making a cameo if we've never seen them before and their appearance carries no sigificance based on familiarity. Therefore, a fleeting one or two panel first appearance CANNOT or at least SHOULD NOT be called a "cameo," but rather something like a "Brief First Appearance."

 

Therefore (whew), to wrap this up, I would refer to FF #48 as Galactus' "First Appearance" (for it is undeniably that) or his "Brief First Appearance" to satisfy those who must acknowledge its brevity. FF #49 would then be referred to as his "First Full Appearance."

 

I think I might make it my editorial mission now to make sure the "Cameo" term is properly used. We'll see if I succeed.

 

Arnold

[drbanner]

Dammit, who cares?

 

C'mon - isn't it obvious? Like JC said, it's a conspiracy amongst the FF 48 hoarders to have CGC note FF 48 as the 1st Galactus to make it more valuable, what else could possibly be behind it!

 

Why does anything happen in this hobby - $$...the whole thing's about the $$...nothing else matters...every change, every initiative, every new angle is about the $$...and it always comes back to the comicinvestors...you just can't get away from them...and it's simply maddening!

[chrisco37]

I believe that FF#48 is, correctly, noted "The First Appearance of Galactus" for the reason that, although (technically) he appears in only one panel at the very end (just like Wolverine in Hulk #180), the whole issue revolves around him.

 

From the cover ("The Coming of Galactus!") through the final page, Galactus is the main character. The Surfer searches for a planet that Galactus can drain the energy from. The Watcher comes to warn the FF of Galactus. Galactus is the focus of the entire issue. When he appears at the end, we've already been "introduced" to who he is.

 

Hulk #180 is a different story. If I remember correctly, there is a brief mention of Wolverine in the middle of the book, "Mobilze Weapon X!", or something like that. No mention is nade of him again, until he appears in the last panel. It is not until Hulk #181 that we are really introduced to Wolverine. Hulk #180 is a Hulk/Wendigo story. Hulk #181 is a Wolverine story.

 

Chris

[12c_Comic]

Can that be applyed to the appearance to Venom in ASM #299 cameo and full in ASM #300?

[chrisco37]

I suppose so. I have always considered #299 the cameo, and #300 the "Origin and 1st Appearance". I think OS does as well.

 

Chris

[blowout]

I think I might make it my editorial mission now to make sure the "Cameo" term is properly used. We'll see if I succeed

 

Good luck and I hope you do succeed. As can be seen from the discussions here for the last few weeks, the use of the 'cameo' appearance notation has lead to a great deal of confussion/ debate. The problem with the OS guide as it stands is the often haphazard and misplaced use of this term.

[joe_collector]

>>Therefore, a cameo as far as I'm concerned can NEVER be the same as a first appearance of a character.

 

Exactly, as far as you're concerned.

 

Personally, I believe that the English language is constantly evolving and that the meaning of "cameo" in comic's terms is far different than with movies or other media.

[joe_collector]

>>Dammit, who cares? The Surfer's the more important character!

 

Actually, I think Galactus is a far more important character to the Marvel Universe than Surfer, and that old SS is only effective in the story when Galactus is there as well.

[blowout]

I think Galactus is a far more important character to the Marvel Universe than Surfer, and that old SS is only effective in the story when Galactus is there as well.

 

Most of Marvel's cosmic stories involve Galactus somehow, and there would be no Surfer without him. I personally like the Silver Surfer stories that either invlove Galactus directly of have the SS interating with the big guy's other heralds.

I don't think the Surfer has ever worked so well in his Earth based, human interaction stories.

[THE_BEYONDER]

One of my favourite SS stories was done during Byrne's run on the FF title. THE FANTASTIC FOUR, SILVER SURFER, DOCTOR DOOM and TERRAX. Great SS appearance.......no GALACTUS(I think). It doesn't make sense( to me) to compare the importance of SILVER SURFER vs. GALACTUS......that's kind of like comparing the importance of VENOM vs. SPIDER-MAN. By the way, If you want to see the FIRST APPEARANCE of SABERTOOTH, turn to the last page of IRON FIST #13.....