CGC Restoration Policies

[tth2]

While we're waiting for a new message board to be created somewhere that will form a depository of all the accumulated wisdom and lore of the comic collecting community, I figured in the meantime we could start consolidating various pronouncements and statements from CGC regarding restoration.

 

Contributions are welcome, please attribute the source and when and where the statement was made (e.g., on these boards, conversation at a Forum dinner, telephone conversation, etc.). If possible, let's minimize the editorial content, unless it's to provide an explanation or point out that a statement contradicts an earlier statement.

 

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The following is a post from Steve Borock on these Boards from January 17, 2006, which provided an interesting clarification on their views on PLOD-able cleaning and pressing and also explained how their label notations regarding PLOD-able cleaning and pressing have evolved:

 

Cleaned & pressed or its abbreviation C&P is a long standing term used in the hobby to describe the type of cleaned process done to a comic book. C&P comic books are ones that have been disassembled and float washed in water, chemical oxidizer, or solvent. Pressing is necessary during these types of aqueous procedures to prevent warping during the drying process and to reestablish the fold at the spine. C&P comic books are ones that have been “paper lightened” or made whiter.

 

Dry cleaned on the other hand is an erasure process that removes surface soiling and is non aqueous.

 

It was only at the very beginning that CGC noted C&P on the restored label, but because we did not want to confuse hobbyists and have them believe that we would note pressing when a comic book was not cleaned or that CGC considered pressing restoration, we chose to just put down cleaned. If any have noticed, after a while, we even separated cleaned into 2 descriptions; cover cleaned and pages lightened, so that anyone buying/owning the book would be aware that the pages were also cleaned along with the cover and that the page quality stated on the CGC label is a result of the aqueous cleaning process.

[Mushroom]

I have a whole folder on these. Here are some of my favourite Borockisms...

 

"Though there are many debates on these boards about restoration. There is NO debate here. Trimming is not acceptable in any form or for any reason. Many of us at CGC consider trimming to be the most hideous thing that can be done to a comic book; it is a violent act upon a comic book."

 

Feb 05 2003

[Mushroom]

"Before CGC, collectors who purchased a comic book with a slight or moderate spine roll would put the comic book between two dictionaries with a cinder block on top for a few months to remove part or all of the spine roll. If a collector got in a comic book with a light crease that did not break color, he would try and take it out by using light pressure to “press” it out. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it did not. I personally know many dealers and collectors who for many years have been pressing comic books on a regular basis. Unlike restoration, when a comic book cover is pressed CORRECTLY and SAFELY, it will enhance the look of the comic book and, in many cases, most experts can’t even tell it has been pressed. Pressing has been acceptable historically in our hobby and CGC has not adopted any policies contrary to this. "

 

Borockism Feb 05 2003

[Mushroom]

"Certification resubmissions occur regularly, though this can be risky as grades not only can go up, but as well, can go down. This practice also occurs in other areas of collectibles where certification is offered such as Sportscards and Coins. When CGC receives a resubmitted comic book we very rarely know if it had been graded by us previously. If we do recognize it as having been previously certified (normally because it is either a high profile or pedigree comic book) we still are not aware of what we graded it the first time around. It is VERY unlikely that any of our graders would remember the previous grade because we grade so many comic books on a daily basis. It is rare that we remember grades assigned from last week, let alone several months ago."

 

Borockism Feburary 05 2003

[Mushroom]

Tim....you take all the fun out of it and here I am trying to be a productive member of the board....

 

deleted as asked.

[Mushroom]

 

"I have stated again and again that we do not put pressed books into purple labels and as long as the comic is not damaged, we will not guess if a book has been pressed or not. This is the way it is done MOST of the time in our hobby and this has been company policy since day one. And if I or CGC wanted silence on this issue, I would not be on here at all and I would not talk about it at conventions or on the phone with board members."

 

 

Friesen January 12 2005

[Mushroom]

"For months I have seen half truths and conspiracy theories run through these boards. Some people with true and honest opinions on pressing and others with their own personal agenda.

 

I have had many discussions about pressing with my co-workers, customers, collectors and dealers, but what has led me to writing this post is a piece of information that most of the people I have talked to believe is very important to the pressing issue. That is the burden of proof that CGC needs to decide if a comic receives a blue or purple label.

 

Checking for restoration is quite different than grading. When grading a comic you are looking at something that at one point was mint(ish) and are now evaluating it based on its state of deterioration and visible flaws to determine its grade. When checking for restoration you are looking for something that was not meant to be seen. Even for experts, though sometimes easy, most of the time it is very difficult.

 

And this leads me to my most important point. Unlike grading, restoration detection is not subjective. Restoration must be supported by proof and not a gut feeling. Like in a jury trial a comic is innocent until proven guilty. When I evaluate a comic for restoration and I find something that could be color touch I don’t stop there and assume it is, give the book a purple restoration label and move on. I stop, look closer and ask myself, “What is it? Is this color touch? What is its purpose? Is it there to cover an under lying flaw? Is it something other than color touch?” and so on, and so forth. Using my art background, almost two decades as a professional in this hobby consisting of, five years as a restorer with Renaissance Restoration Lab, almost five years with CGC, and over one million comics evaluated in my career, I make a decision based on evidence. Then I move on to the next odd looking spot on the comic, so on, and so forth. I do not do restoration checks based on my gut feeling but instead on evidence that the book provides. I know for a fact that Borock, Haspel, and Litch do restoration checks the same way.

 

On to pressing and expanding on my points above. If a suspected pressed comic was in a jury trial it would likely end in a hung jury. Based on the criteria above I would ask myself “Is this comic pressed?.....possibly, “Is this comic not pressed?”…..possibly. “This book has a lot of creases, does it make it not pressed”…..no, it still could be. “This book has no creases or bends, it must be pressed”…..no, it could simply be a high grade book. So on, and so forth.

 

I could start doing restoration checks by relying on my gut feeling. If a book rubs me the wrong way I could guess what was done. Flip a coin, roll the dice, pull out the ouija board, toss the chicken bones, or rely on my spidey senses. How many people will be disappointed when they get their books back from CGC in a purple or blue label that reads “Pressed” when they know it’s not possible? How many phone calls a day will I receive with people asking me “how do you know my book has been pressed?”, should I reply “Well..I thought it could be…possible”. Or possibly CGC should start using a new term on the label “Maybe Pressed”.

 

If CGC changes its stance on pressing will people stop pressing books? Of course not. If CGC changes its stance on pressing will it cast doubt on all books considering the new subjective restoration check policy. Maybe.

 

On a final note, do I consider pressing restoration? No. But that is just my opinion, not the reason I have written this. The point of this post was not to illustrate my opinion but to place the opinions of others into the context of CGC, its stance on restoration checks, and the comic book industry as a whole."

 

Friesen March 1 2005

[Red Hook]

.

[Mushroom]

 

On being asked why the lack of disclosure around pressing.........

 

 

"I am leaving for L.A. in a few minutes, so I will read more of this when I get back, but the reason for the lack of disclosure is that, because of a very vocal minority, a pro pressed book will get a stigma attached to it that it has never had in our hobby before."

 

Borockism June 25 2005

[drbanner]

I have a whole folder on these. Here are some of my favourite Borockisms...

 

"Though there are many debates on these boards about restoration. There is NO debate here. Trimming is not acceptable in any form or for any reason. Many of us at CGC consider trimming to be the most hideous thing that can be done to a comic book; it is a violent act upon a comic book."

 

Feb 05 2003

 

I think pretty much everyone here agrees with this statement, don't you?

 

Somehow I think you're missing the point of this post...

[Mushroom]

Doc I am not 100% anti CGC..........TTH2 wanted any key comments around this subject and that is a key comment.

[FFB]

Tim asked that we keep the thread clear of editorializing so that we could have just a thread with information in it. Let's honor that, because this thread could be a great resource if it consists of just the things that are on topic.

[Mushroom]

 

"CGC does not grade based on who the submitter is, and never has. We have stated this time and time again. We set very high standards for ourselves, this is the only way we can stay a trusted part of the collecting community. Our internal policies are designed to make each submission anonymous (in terms of who the submitter is) to the graders. "

 

Feb 05 2003

[tth2]

Post deleted by tth2

[Mushroom]

 

This is not a "new craze". If you own pre-1978 books that you did not buy of the stands, you probably have Pressed books in your collection. If you own GA books, it is about a 95% chance some of those are pressed. A lot of dealers and collectors have been doing this for a looooong time and don't want the uninformed to know about it or there will be less money on the table for them and more for you.

 

Most people who are making money don't like other people taking it away from them.

 

Borockism 11 February 04

[Mushroom]

"When we see a "badly" pressed book, we treat it as handling damage and down grade for it. We have "hit" many books for cleaned and/or staples replaced and then have gotten a call from the submitter saying " So and so pressed this book, it has not been cleaned" or "I only pressed the book. The staple(s) had to be taken out and moved to press it. They have not been replaced." CGC does not change the label for these people, even our biggest submitters, or friends I have had for years. Does this cause me some problems, yes, but that is CGC's policy."

 

Borockism 11 February 2004

[FFB]

Here are the results of Steve's posts for the last three years when the word "restoration" appeared in the post and his post actually addressed CGC's policies on various aspects of restoration notation and detection. Nothing really controversial here, but hopefully it's helpful to be able to read them all in one place.

 

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I thought I would start a new thread so this would not get buried in the old one.

 

I’ve received numerous comments by email and PM about the Edgar Church/Mile High copy of Boy Comics #17, even after the first time I posted about it. It seems people felt that my answers were not sufficient (I did do it in a hurry). I will again address this issue. Mostly, the email and PMs, relate to the probability of a book going from a 4.0 to a 9.0. If someone had asked me, prior to this instance, if this jump in grade was possible, I would have said that it is not.

 

Here we have the exception to the rule.

 

The set of defects present on this particular book were such that this considerable jump in grade was possible. First, the front and back cover were heavily abraded, but there were almost no color breaks. Second, the two center wraps were detached. Having two center wraps detached significantly affects the grade of any comic book that is not already low grade. The wraps were re-attached by opening up the prongs of the staple and then placing them back down firmly in the same position over paper still present on the wraps. This is a non-restorative procedure (no glue or reinforcement). Re-attaching a centerfold, or even a cover, without adding anything to the book (thus not constituting restoration) is something that most hobbyists, collectors and dealers have done many times over. This kind of activity has NEVER been considered to be restoration. It is not always possible to re-attached a centerfold or cover without glue or reinforcement (Restoration). It would depend on the page quality, amount of paper at staple area and staple placement.

 

Then the Boy Comics #17 was probably pressed, removing some of the non color breaking defects. There are many ways to press a comic book and this one still retained some defects that could have been removed if pressed differently.

 

The Boy Comics #17 was sent to CGC and since there were less defects present on the comic book, it received a higher grade. The book must have been later on pressed to its full potential, which resulted in a second upgrade to a 9.0. Remember, we grade every comic book in front of us as a new submission and it is graded as it appears in front of us in an objective and impartial manner.

 

This clearly was a perfect candidate for pressing.

 

There are books that grade 4.0 and lower, but almost all cannot be improved to a 9.0, much less even a 5.0, without restoration or treatment resulting in an apparent (Restored) grade at CGC. In fact, the set of defects on this book is so unique that I am not sure I will ever see more than a handful of books like this, that’s possible to go from a 4.0 to a 9.0, in the future. I also want to make this very clear, CGC does not and has never considered re-attachment of original parts of a comic book (without using reinforcement or glue), erasure, dry cleaning or pressing to be restoration and as such, it is not noted on the CGC label.

 

Even if everybody does not agree 100% with our business (I don't know any business that consumers agree 100% with) you still have to ask yourself; are you better off and better educated today with CGC's certification and these boards than 6 years ago? 6 years ago (and today if you buy raw books) you had much, much more undetected restoration (color touch and tear seals among other things CGC and the rest of the hobby consider restoration) and un-objective grading because the person(s) grading the book owned it and one sellers 8.0 was another sellers 9.4. Some of you lived through this and that is why CGC got off the ground and is successful, some of you never had to deal with that stuff if you started collecting in the last 6 years, but you experience it online with raw books all the time. The bottom line is that I, and many others, believe we are much better off than before.

 

Enjoy the rest of your weekend!

-Steve

 

Borock 1/16/04

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Absolutely not, there needs to be a difference between conservation and restoration. An informed hobbyist is much better off. I would much rather have a spine split sealed with archivaly safe glue to stop the deterioration of the spine than, as the overstreet guide allows, putting tape on it which will break down the comic. Color touch is not preservation, it is restoration and does not help the book at all. I wrote an article in the Overstreet guide about this about 5 years ago. I would hope that our hobby would want to move towards preservation and away from restoration and tape.

 

Borock 9/23/05

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The top of the label will read CGC APPARANT GRADE and over the numerical grade it will state RESTORED or CONSERVED and under the numerical grade it will state P LEVEL 8. The P will stand for professional and the level will note how much work was done and the appearance of the work done. The work done to the book will still be noted on the label in the same space it always has, you will just have more information.

 

Nothing is set in stone. A info packet of the changes we would like to make are going out to dealers and collectors (including some forum members) to get input before we implement any changes. So, keep talking among yourselves (I like the input of your opinions) and when the info packet shows up, I am sure someone will post the stuff, and you will have all the info on the proposed changes.

 

Borock 9/23/05

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Though there are many debates on these boards about restoration. There is NO debate here. Trimming is not acceptable in any form or for any reason. Many of us at CGC consider trimming to be the most hideous thing that can be done to a comic book; it is a violent act upon a comic book.

 

Borock 8/23/05

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CGC's position on this "matter" has always been the same, we do not consider pressing restoration and we are not going to put a stigma (notation) on a label that reads "maybe pressed" or something like that for no other reason other than a small, but very vocal group on these boards saying "I just want to know".

 

Borock 6/9/05

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Cool thread, lots to think about.

 

BUT...because some people are saying "cleaning and pressing" and "restoration" in the same breath, I have one comment:

 

CGC does not consider DRY cleaning (earsure, not water or solvent) and pressing (when not taken apart and done correctly/safely) restoration.

 

Borock 2/11/04

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Mike wrote to me and told me he was going to get it, but he is very busy.

 

He also said that the comment might have said "small amount of glue on centerfold". If that is the case, the reason it did not get a Universal label is that most of the time glue on centerfold is usually holding the centerfold onto the next wrap or onto the staples and removing the glue would then detach the centerfold and lower the grade quite a bit (unless, of course, it was a low grade book to begin with).

 

Borock 12/18/03

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No. If all the restoration was removed, it will be considered unrestored. We can't say something is there that is not.

 

Borock 12/10/03

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O.K.

 

I just did some research, thanks for the barcode #'s.

 

But, before that, just for the record:

 

When CGC gives a blue label to a book with a touch of glue and/or color touch, the label will state "Very minor amount...."

 

Books in a purple label will NOT say "Very minor" and has never said "small dab". The notations on the purple label will always have "Restoration includes:" before them except in the case of trimming only.

 

When any kind of work is noticed on a comic during the CGC grading process, the restoration detection person puts a restored notation into the "catagory" field on the CGC grading screen. When a finalizer (either Haspel or myself) sees that screen and determines that it can fit into a universal label, we take the restored notation out of the catagory field and make it universal.

 

In this case, it looks like universal was never put in when it should have been and it went out in a purple label

 

Borock 12/08/03

 

 

 

 

[OldGuy]

bump

[tth2]

Thanks. No other contributions out there? Anything gleaned by anyone from conversations (on the phone or at forum dinners) with the folks at CGC?