Updated Me Page - Movie Hype Idiocy 1 1

[delekkerste]

Hey folks,

 

I've updated my latest "About Me" CGC market commentary on eBay, this time

addressing Movie Hype Nonsense and the potential effects of the worsening economy

on the CGC market. You can find it here:

 

http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/de-lekkerste/

 

Check it out and let the debate begin.

 

Gene

[Kevin76]

i read your about me page,I do own a copy of ASM 14 in 9.4,but the averge person and johnny doesn't have the cash to shell out that kind of dough for thier copy,and the only reson the want it is because the green goblin is in the movie.Spidey 2 will have another villian and that villian's 1st app. will be sought after and so on and so on.I think it's great that they are finally making these movies of comics,about time we get to see these heroes and villains in a 3D world.But as far as comics and movies mixed,well there is nothing you can do about it.But yes,it does motavate people to buy comics cause the movie is out,it helps the industry...would you like another dead industry? conventions are ghost towns like it used to be? is that how you want it? A dead industry is a boring industry.I left comics for a while till about 2 years ago.mid 90's sucked for comics.Maybe you liked it cause everything was cheap.But i don't think you should call someone an insufficiently_thoughtful_person because they liked the movie and went out and bought some comics. Kevin

[chromium]

Took a look at what you wrote, and eventhough anyone who quotes Judas Priest is a-ok in my book, I do have a question for you.

 

You seem to strongely believe that the CGC market is heading for a crash and that prices paid for 9.4 and 9.6 comics will never reach the dizzy height of months gone by (keys excluded)... So why aren't you getting rid of yours ?

 

IIRC you were a high-profile bidder on a lot of Spidey books from February to late Spring... aren't you afraid that you'll get stuck with those books ?

 

And I also believe that the second Spider-man movie (still think they should include 'web' somewhere in the title) will indeed get the speculator train rolling again, lots of people would commit unspeakable things to get the lowdown on who will be the major villain in the sequel Michael Chabon is writing...

Both Vulture and Doc Oc seem to be fore-runners...

[delekkerste]

Hi Kevin,

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Believe me, I am all for a resurgence in comic books

and superheroes. What I do not support is dealers using Movie Hype to fuel unsustainable

prices in books and collectors basing their purchase decisions on speculation on which

characters may or may not appear in an upcoming movie or how well a movie will do at the

box office. What does that have to do with anything? Are you telling me that I should turn

the other cheek and say that $295 for a DD #188 CGC 9.6 is OK? Let's call a spade a

spade: that price is just absurd.

 

The only factor that should count as far as movies are concerned are whether the films will

spur popularity of a character that leads to long-term increased demand for that character's

appearances. As far as the CGC market is concerned, did the Spidey movie really do that?

Wasn't the Green Goblin already the most popular Spidey villain and weren't the people bidding

up ASM #14 and #122 and what not already hard-core collectors before the movie?

 

And if Movie Hype really does lift all boats, why do Movie Hype proponents always point to

X-Men and Spidey? What about the vast number of other existing and planned comic-related

movie and TV projects? Weren't X-Men and Spidey already the industry's two hottest franchises?

Did we need movies to boost their comic values? Of course not. It just gave dealers an excuse

to hype the books up further.

 

Gene

[delekkerste]

Bonjour et goede middag,

 

>>"You seem to strongely believe that the CGC market is heading for a crash"

 

I would argue strongly that the market has *already* crashed. The harder-to-find books and

Movie Hype books are still ridiculously priced and/or are still rising BUT that masks the

fact that the vast majority of CGC books are selling for much less than they did back in 2000

when any 9.0, 9.2 or 9.4 would fetch big bucks. This narrowing breadth of rising vs. declining

books...isn't this exactly how the stock market behaved in the last 6-9 months before

EVERYTHING went to pieces?

 

>>"So why aren't you getting rid of yours ? IIRC you were a high-profile bidder on a lot of

Spidey books from February to late Spring...aren't you afraid that you'll get stuck with those

books?"

 

I may have been a high-profile bidder, but if you look at how many books I actually won, it

was actually very small. And I have always spent way, way, way below my means. I am

currently sitting on a pile of cash large enough to buy just about anything short of an Action #1

CGC 9.4 but do you see me bidding like crazy? I prefer to wait...mark my words, the price

of just about everything, not just comic books, will be lower in the coming few years. By the way,

I am never selling my collection...I intend to pass it down to the next generation. I'm a collector

first and foremost and a market pundit second.

 

>>And I also believe that the second Spider-man movie (still think they should include 'web'

somewhere in the title) will indeed get the speculator train rolling again...Both Vulture and Doc Oc

seem to be fore-runners...

 

So, let's say Christopher Walken plays Doc Ock, as is currently rumored. What then? Is

ASM #3 going to go through the roof because the "unknown" Doc Ock has suddenly been

discovered? Will my ASM #158 suddenly be worth something all of a sudden? See how irrational

this Movie Hype is?

 

Met vriendlijk groetjes/Salutations amicales,

Gene

[chromium]

-----------------------------------

delekkerste wrote :

Bonjour et goede middag

-------------------------------------

 

Ah,somebody out there knows their politics and the tricky situation my country is in, and chooses the always-diplomatical way of adressing a Belgian in both languages

To save time for future references, I speak Dutch and am prolly one of the few people here that didn't need to sneak a peak at your 'mypage' to know what your alias means

 

 

-----------------------------------

delekkerste concluded :

So, let's say Christopher Walken plays Doc Ock, as is currently rumored. What then? Is

ASM #3 going to go through the roof because the "unknown" Doc Ock has suddenly been

discovered? Will my ASM #158 suddenly be worth something all of a sudden? See how irrational

this Movie Hype is?

-------------------------------------

 

Yes it is ! And I also see a lot of ASM books featuring good old Otto up to #320 feeling a (temporary) price hitch...

Books which are now worth a few dollars, will not be worth a fortune, but will have a slight increase.

A lot of people are building collections, one book at a time and get scared when a particular (expensive) key gets the mainstream treatment. A lot of people actively sought out ASM #121 and #122 during the Spidey movie-hype, to buy as an investment, but out of fear that the movie would make the issue even more expensive.

This is of course a self-fulfilling prophecy because by hunting down the book in large numbers they did effectively drive up the price.

 

Although Mile High Comics is certainly no reference, they did increase the price of both Spidey keys 30% in NM, while the hype was alive.

 

And if low-grade and unslabbed books get this treatment, then the high-ticket books are bound to follow.

 

Maybe a bold statement, but if Doc Oc becomes the new villain, I'm sure that ANY ASM book with him in it will have at least a 10% increase in value compared to todays prices.

[murph0]

I think for the books to jump up a ton they have to be a book readily affordable by people to speculate on without giving up too much. This is why you don't see a huge jump in ASM 50 for the Kingpin appearance for the DD movie. This is also why I doubt that ASM 3 makes huge leaps..as it's too costly for the average person to buy in high grade. At the time people were buying ASM 14 for speculating purposes they could easily pick up a higher graded book for below 1k.

I think the perfect example of a book that got hyped up from the movie is ASM 136..that was going for a ton for a while.

 

Brian

[Kevin76]

it's called marketing

[clobberintime]

Are your posts really supposed to mean anything or are they just puff pieces about how much money and brains you think you have? Are you looking for a girlfriend on here? I swear to God every post I see from you lately talks about your extended vacation and how little under your income you spend on comics and whatever. Do you not get enough attention outside of comics or something? I usually don't respond to someone's posts like this but I have had about enough of your lengthy soliliques on your self and limited knowledge of comics. It is annoying.

[Darthdiesel]

I'm a collector first and foremost and a market pundit second.

 

That Gene is why you spout your rhetoric the way you do and I do things the way I do.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=721311811

 

I've started to update my hype and point more to the writing and art's appeal for the comic, but I still and will continue to use the "movie hype" to sell my books, and feel no shame or moral/ethical qualms in doing so.

 

In this day and age where there is still a high percentage of American illiteracy and the majority of daily stimulation occurs visually, I believe in MARKETING an angle that a majority can connect to. If this means appealing to what has been recently touted and "hyped" by the media, Time, Newsweek, CNN, Wizard, CBG, etc. ad nauseam, then so be it.

 

Gene, I have no problem with you or your me page. You can post however you want, live and let live is my motto. You are not doing anything to promote the hobby as a collector by being so negative, but as a collector, regardless of how much you make or can afford, you are out to serve yourself first and foremost and would like to get your books as low as possible.

 

Let me ask you, if you are so against this effect of movie hype on the industry, would you turn down the offer for one of your books you can let go if the offer was a high multiple of NM guide, just so you can say you are a man of principle? I think not. When it comes to comics, I beleive every man has his price that he will sell at.

 

I think the best advice is not to get in over your head. Bid and pay what you feel comfortable with and even if the market crashes (or has crashed, though I see nor feel any evidence of this, personally), then you have what you wanted to gain - a nice collection that you paid sensibly for.

 

Sour grapes for everyone beating you out on your bids is seen as just that: sour grapes. You and I bump heads often on auctions, especially USM/UXM junk, but I bear no ill will at all, as that is the name of the game.

 

As for speculators and investors, some may know what they are doing, some may not, but it is still a free country to do as they choose and see fit, barring any illegalities. If you are as patient as you say you are, then bear these folks no ill will and wait until the crash arrives and snap up all the books you want to collect.

 

You don't seem to keep in mind that to get these books graded is a costly expense and selling them goes towards someone's livelihood. Dealers do not serve the bargain buyers like yourself solely and have to chase sales elsewhere. If you want to be my sole source of income, and provide me capital to keep giving you bargains on key graded issues, my family would probably starve in the span of 2 weeks.

[comicinvestor-migration]

As for speculators and investors, some may know what they are doing, some may not, but it is still a free country to do as they choose and see fit, barring any illegalities. If you are as patient as you say you are, then bear these folks no ill will and wait until the crash arrives and snap up all the books you want to collect.

 

That's a good motto is you're talking about JP and his insane spending habits. That guy has deep pockets and almost deserves to get fleeced to being so ostentatious.

 

My problem (as I stated before) is that while I know a crash is coming and I know I'll be able to snap up CGC books for minute percentages of what they're selling for now, but I still feel bad for the bozos who swallowed the "CGC Investment" angle hook, line and sinker, and are primed for a serious loss.

 

What goes around comes around, I always say, which is one reason I try and walk the straight and narrow.

[Darthdiesel]

Short of having my buyers fill out an affidavit swearing that they are not buying this book for the CGC Investment craze, I know of no possible practical method to avoid contributing to this so-called "fleecing"?

 

I'm not giving away the darn books either...

[comicinvestor-migration]

You're missing the obvious one Darth....

 

I'm not saying you should, but it's still pretty lame to toss your arms up in the air and just state that you mass-submitting Moderns for CGC 9.8-10.0 copies, then selling them off, is a process as inevitable as breathing.

[Bronty]

Hey CI,

 

I've read many of your posts on the subject and agree with some of what you say... but I am curious, just what %s of current retail do you see books crashing down to?

 

I don't really care, I've basically come to grips with my addiction , I'll keep buying at a reasonable level whether prices are high, low, or indifferent.

 

But again, I am curious as to how much of a cataclysm you foresee.

[Darthdiesel]

Knowing what you know about me, what is your prescribed cure for my "lameness"???

 

Submit my mid-low grade Silvers and Bronzes and sell those for less than grading cost? That's all I have. How am I going to compete or break into the market that guys like Native, blazing bob, and meth have cornered with their hi-grade 9.2 and up old key issues? Even Bronze is taken with sullypython, bronzebruce and reynold jay's wares....

 

My moderns are the only real high grade I own that can turn a real buck or two in resale. Please play devil's advocate as the new retailer here, and given your knowledge on the market and where money is to be made, and share...just like I've been doing with my experience....without the unnecessary judgement on "lameness" please...

[PovertyRow]

How am I going to compete or break into the market

 

Why would you want to?

[Darthdiesel]

why not? What's with the question? What don't you get? Oh yes, another collector first and foremost...

[PovertyRow]

Oh yes, another collector first and foremost...

 

Why not "another collector first and foremost"? I am on ebay as povertyrow. Tell me how many comics you see listed?

 

Some people actually DO love comics not for the bucks they can bring in but for the books themselves. I remember your first - or one of your first - replies to my with this HUGE FONT because I said some people love the hobby for the books. Obviously I stepped on a VERY sensitive toe.

 

But you know what gas guzzler? There really ARE people who love this hobby for the art and the stories.

[murph0]

I've just come to the conclusion that if people are going to speculate on movies by buying key appearances from characters in it..whatever..it's their money, even if I think it's a dumb idea and such..what I don't like is people trying to convince me that some books are going up not because of the movie hype but b/c the book is now "suddenly" becoming recognized..that's just bull. Anyways, it's just like speculating on an IPO or something in the stock market when you speculate on movie books so do what you want..but don't try to sell me the "well it's just cause the book is so great" line.

 

Brian

[PovertyRow]

some books are going up not because of the movie hype but b/c the book is now "suddenly" becoming recognized..that's just bull. Anyways, it's just like speculating on an IPO

 

Makes a lot of sense to me. To quote Yul - "SO it is written. So it shall be DONE!"