Anyone with any exp. with comickeys?

[FlyingDonut]

OK. Here, I'll try to answer all of this at once and then we all can go away.

 

1) There was a dealer in the 80s and 90s, Danny Dupcak (sp?) of Fantazia in New York who was infamous for trimming books. I was the recipient of two of them, a trimmed ASM 28 and FF 16.

 

2) Rumors (please note, they are ONLY rumors) are that comic-keys aka methuselah aka hammer and Mr. Dupcak are the same fellow, and that comic-keys sells trimmed books. Again, please note that these are ONLY rumors. I've heard them from several people, but they are unverified.

 

3) Comic-keys has private feedback for reasons only of his own (there's another thread floating around where he goes into his reasons).

 

4) Comic-keys also doesn't send books for slabbing for reasons only of his own. I prefer to think he doesn't send a lot of them in for the same reason I don't - the pain in the [!@#%^&^] and time factor (sorry Steve).

 

5) He has a full return policy (or so he's said, I've never dealt with him). The full return policy is enough for me. If you buy book X from him and it comes back from CGC with a PLOD, he refunds without question. That's enough for me.

 

6) All the other vitriol and posturing by everybody is sort of secondary to 5.

 

Hope that helps. :

[Illiterati-migration]

Thanks for the clarification, Donut. I still think the real issue here is whether Hoo has anything to back up his claims or if he is, in fact, the other three "newbies" who have posted on this thread and nowhere else.

 

This is why I would LOVE to see any amount of real evidence to back up his accusations instead of this just being another romp on the playground for the Hammer anti-fan club.

[HooDeeDoo]

This is why I would LOVE to see any amount of real evidence to back up his accusations instead of this just being another romp on the playground for the Hammer anti-fan club.

 

When I get home later, I'll post the email between comic-keys and myself from two years ago (or whenever it was, I think it was two years ago). I saved them just in case............

 

 

[sborock]

I will vouch for hoodeedoo. He has been around our hobby for a long time and is a great guy.

 

I will not vouch for Hammer.

[AlexH]

I will vouch for hoodeedoo. He has been around our hobby for a long time and is a great guy.

 

I will not vouch for Hammer.

[ArAich]

I will not vouch for Hammer.

 

And why is that??? Can you expound further....

[Illiterati-migration]

I will vouch for hoodeedoo. He has been around our hobby for a long time and is a great guy.

 

I will not vouch for Hammer.

 

So what does that mean, exactly? Should we infer something from your statement or not?

 

A great deal of clarity is needed when providing ammunition for a character assassination.

[PovertyRow]

I will vouch for hoodeedoo. He has been around our hobby for a long time and is a great guy.

 

I will not vouch for Hammer.

 

That's a shocker coming from a green guy . Worse yet, it continues the "hearsay" idea being brought into this. To say "I will not vouch for Hammer" is certainly fraught with implications but if you're not willing to say exactly why, the statement itself is only inflammatory. (Great I am lecturing a green guy ).

 

And I am not really defending Hammer. If someone said that about me I would be majorly ticked off.

[Illiterati-migration]

I will vouch for hoodeedoo. He has been around our hobby for a long time and is a great guy.

 

I will not vouch for Hammer.

 

That's a shocker coming from a green guy . Worse yet, it continues the "hearsay" idea being brought into this. To say "I will not vouch for Hammer" is certainly fraught with implications but if you're not willing to say exactly why, the statement itself is only inflammatory. (Great I am lecturing a green guy ).

 

And I am not really defending Hammer. If someone said that about me I would be majorly ticked off.

 

It's okay, Pov. It's not as though the green guys are strangers to controversy . Hell, there's a growing number of collectors that won't vouch for CGC.

[HooDeeDoo]

HONEY? I'M HOME!!!

 

I'm glad to see you all haven't been kicking cyber-sand into each other's eyes while I've been gone.

 

Shortly, below you will read (hopefully, with breathless anticipation) an exchange I had a year and half ago (I thought it was two years ago, but who's counting) with "Richard" of comic-keys.

 

To give you a little background on it, he had several early FFs (if I remember correctly, a #5, 25, 28, and 38) that were all kick [!@#%^&^]. He wanted me to come out by train to Long Island (with CASH) to pick them up from him. I didn't know him from Adam at that time but one day I saw a couple of amazing books he had for sale on eBay and I emailed him asking if he had any NM FFs that I could buy directly. POOF! There were suddenly scans in my email of these four aforementioned books (and I think he also had a JIM#112 - a key book, what a surprise!). They looked amazing and what he was asking for them was "fair" compared to 9.4 CGC books at the time. I thought to myself: "Self, you got lucky!"

 

But then reality intruded (as it so often does at times like this). He started pressing me as to when I could come out there and get them (the usual song and dance). I then got a little suspicious and decided to make inquiries with people I trust and what I heard back was nothing short of scathing. So, I decided to call his bluff and structure the deal in a way that I thought was fair - unless, of course, he was a crook.

 

So, as Jackie Gleason would say: Awaaaaaaay we go!

 

 

 

 

Subj: Re: Fantastic Fours

Date: 10/16/2001 6:57:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Comic Keys

To: Me

 

 

 

Mark,

We were supposed to touch bases about Mon-Wed. How does tomorrow look? Possible for me. Let me know.Thank you M. -Richard / Comic-keys

 

 

Subj: Re: Fantastic Fours

Date: 10/16/2001 7:33:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Me

To: Comic Keys

 

 

 

Hi Richard. Thanks for the email about coming out to see the books.

 

This past weekend was the Big Apple Show, which I of course attended. Since this would be our first transaction (and an expensive one) I felt it would be prudent to make a few casual inquiries.

 

The first person I spoke to gave me information that rocked me back on my heels. Thinking that this might be an isolated incident, I spoke with another person whom I respect and trust and they proceeded to tell me the same thing. I checked with a third person - same story.

 

Honestly, I'm a little weirded out.

 

In a nutshell, I have been warned that you do a beautiful job of restoring books. When I got back into this hobby about seven years ago, I got badly burned by a big dealer who sold me a number of high grade Timelys. After many thousands of dollars, I found out two years later that every one of the books had been cleaned, pressed and color touched. And this was a well-known dealer and "advisor" to Overstreet.

 

After that incident, I will not spend big money on high grade books unless I have dealt with the person before or I know from friends that the person is ok. That's why I asked around about you - so don't take it personally.

 

I will not name names and turn this into a [!@#%^&^] match - I have no interest in that and it's pointless. I believe them and none of them have any reason to lie to me. I know them all well and trust them implicitly.

 

Am I still interested in purchasing your books? Yep. However.....after seeing them, the only way I would purchase them would be under the following scenario. If they look good to me, the money would be held by my attorney in his firm's escrow account and the funds would be released to you after the books have come back from CGC and shown to have no restoration of any form, manner or shape. I would absorb all costs of grading and the deal would not be contingent of any specific grade. My only concern is restoration. If the books come back and it turns out there is any restoration, you will be liable for the grading costs and the deal will be off.

 

If you know for a fact these books are untouched, this scenario should hold no peril for you. The books will be sent through Express and they'll be back in 5 business days.

 

I don't like having to put these conditions on any deal and don't mean to offend you, but, I have been advised that this is the only way I to go.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Mark

 

Subj: Re: Fantastic Fours

Date: 10/16/2001 8:16:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Comic Keys

To: Me

 

 

 

My goodness Mark,

I wish I had the time to dedicate to learn paper restoration, let alone have the time to perfect it! I'd be performing my craft, in that case, on Dutch Masters, instead of comic books, a relatively inexpensive collectible. Fortunately, my limitations on restoration are performed on patients in need of medical care,not comics in need of a higher grade. Unfortunately,as I always suspected about MOST Comic dealers, on a whole, my impression from dealing directly with a majority of them, was that these were the individuals that could NEVER hold a real job in the private sector and "adapted/gravitated" to the hobby due to their inability to conduct themselves responsibly. It's no surprise that stories, fables, etc., all of course without irrefutable proof, something absolutely essential in the real world, would abound to explain their personal shortcomings. I'm not even interested in who, or what was said....typical and meaningless from the mouths of women and children.But it sure would make for an interesting Kodak moment for any of these "businessmen" to repeat their charges to my face. That WOULD be amusing!

My agreement to meet you was an extreme extension of courteousy to you. Something I really don't do as Comics are a VERY small and minor part of my life. Now, to have to not only take the time out to meet you personally, to GIVE you books PENDING payment, to meet with lawyers, etc. etc., understandably is something alltogether far too cumbersome and time consuming for items we're discussing (are we closing on a house here, or exchanging a few middle value books?). I throw these on Ebay, they'll sell, for MORE (probably) than I quoted you, payment will be sent immediately, books will be shipped, and the buyer will in all probability love them/it. If there's ever a problem with a purple assessment, they can return it at any time. NO problem.

You know a seller can't guarantee the exact gradenumber CGC will affix to a submission, and if a seller is going to enter intoa legal contract with you based on it grading a certain number, HE too should be OVERcompensated if it comes back HIGHER than assessed. For instance: you're saying, You want a lawyer to draw up a legal contract that if a NM FF5 that you buy for $4000 comes back a 9.2, you wish to return it, if it comes back 9.4 or better, you'll keep it. BUT, what if it comes back 9.6? Are you willing to state in the contract, that if it does come back 9.6 you'll cough up an additional $6000? Do you have sellers (let's say all these upstanding "dealers" at this show) that are willing to give you all of their unslabbed books, let you have them graded, at THEIR cost, and IFyou like the grade a book gets, you'll BUY it??? For a price agreed to beforehand??? They're willing to do THAT??? I didn't think so, which is why to expect ME to do it is extremely unfair.

Thank you anyway, can't give you unslabbed material for a pre-agreed to price, pending payment, let you send for CGC slabbing (with MY paying for the slabbing AND your lawyer as well), and whatever comes back with a grade indicating the book is worth 3 to 5 times as much as the unslabbed agreed to price, let you buy only those. In all seriousness, I didn't think ANYONE would EVER seriously expect a seller to do that. –Richard

 

 

Subj: Re: Fantastic Fours

Date: 10/16/2001 8:38:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Me

To: Comic Keys

 

 

 

Richard, reread my email. I said NOTHING about the books coming back with a certain grade. I said RESTORATION was my ONLY concern. Here is my direct quote: "I would absorb all costs of grading and the deal would not be contingent of any specific grade." Repeat: not contingent on any specific grade. Like I said repeatedly, my only concern is RESTORATION. Period.

 

You went on at great length about everything but that. At no time did you say that any of these books are unrestored. What you did say was that if a book comes back with a purple label then money is refunded. Which, it's been reported to me, you have done. However, anything over $3500 cannot be handled in small claims court should someone choose not to give a refund and I have no intention of going to federal court to get money back.

 

If you don't like the attorney thing, I'll have Metropolis act as a middleman - they're right around the corner from me. I'm sure Steve or Vinnie would do that for me. Incidentally, I haven't asked them about you. They might have wonderful things to say - I'll call them tomorrow and see.

 

Richard, once again, I find it odd that you didn't say these books weren't restored. However, you made your views quite clear on other irrelevant issues.

 

Finally, if your books aren't restored, we could have deal in less than two weeks (which is much shorter than how long we've been talking about the books) and you would be many thousands of dollars richer. Or, since you feel the books are possibly underpriced, you could send them to CGC yourself and get alot more money for them than you would from me. I don't know why you haven't done that with all your other books.

 

Let me know what you think

 

 

 

 

Subj: Re: Fantastic Fours

Date: 10/16/2001 11:36:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Comic Keys

To: Me

 

 

 

Mark,

I did read the email too quickly, and answered about an hour after reading it so I did misinterpret the purple top question VS. grading guarantees. Now I understand exactly what you meant. But then again, all the effort....Why? Showcase just ran over 1000 books, two weekends ago on Ebay. About 997 of the 1000 lots were UNSLABBED. Did you understand WHY? Did you ask him, "WHY"? I just buy books and sell them in the same mode slabbed or unslabbed as received, look at my past month's wins in the search section. I've never submitted books to CGC and to start giving people books to submit as conditions of sale with Ebay auction submissions forms a window awaymakes no sense at all. I did tell you that if any books come back purple topped, you can return them for a full refund. Does that NOT tell you that I am selling them as unrestored? They are unrestored.

As far as Zurzollo goes, I made one purchase from him ($4000+), (and YES, it was unslabbed), TALKED to him and had him hold an unslabbed Flash 105 he gave me a "good customer, why should you buy from anyone else but me" price of $6500, found out he offered the SAME book to someone else on just a RANDOM call from someone who never bought from him before for $5200!!!!!!! (can I at least have it for the same price as any schmuck off the street who DIDN't just spend $4000+ with you???),and when I passed on it (he put it on hold), he told me, "I wasted his time" and I should "crawl back under the rock I came out of" (I've still got the emails if you want to see them). Steve Fisher I've never met, OR talked to (corresponded with in any way). So that was MY wonderful experience with the comedically scarecrowesque Zurzollo, who tells people to crawl under rocks, sight unseen, when they pass because he tried to deal them off the bottom of the deck, and they caught him. Anyway, this is much too involved. I'm going to stick with the way I conduct business now. Been good enough without all the hassle, all the extra fuss. A couple of thousand here or there??? I'm a surgeon. You're talking pennies. I would have paid a thousand NOT to have to go into all this with all this writing when nothing's accomplished anyway. It's enough words. Too many problems and nothing will be resolved anyway. I'm on Ebay, you want a book, win it. You pay for it, like the rest of the world, if you submit it and it comes back purple, send it back to me. Simplicity itself. I like simplicity. That's why it's a hobby to me. Extra work I DON'T need. Thanks anyway. -Richard

 

 

 

And that, ladies and gentlemen, was the last I heard of SURGEON RICHARD.

 

Incidentally, I contacted the AMA and they have no such person as a doctor in their records. I doubt pretending to be a surgeon in an email is illegal, however, until proven otherwise, it stands as being a gratuitous lie.

 

One other thing about eBay feedback: much is said about all the positive feedback Hammer has. However, since it's "private" no one can see how many times people have UPDATED. Think about it: you get your book, it looks beautiful, you're tickled pink and you leave positive feedback. But then later.........your book comes back restored and the positive feedback stands - you can't change it. If Surgeon Richard/Hammer/comic-keys didn't have anything to hide, he wouldn't be hiding it. There isn't, to my knowledge, a single other high grade person on eBay who has private feedback. Surgeon Richard/Hammer/comic-keys "explains" why he hides his feedback, but the simple explanation is that he has something to hide.

 

And I wonder what THAT is?

 

It's nice that some of you still believe in the goodness of men and are giving him the benefit of the doubt, however, if you wake up and take a deep breath, you'll smell something - coffee.

 

And finally, (I'm on a roll here), I'll name some names. When I mentioned East Coast high grade collectors, I was talking about the really big boys - Tom "THE MAN" Brulato, Doug "DID YOU HURT YOUR BACK" Schmell and Barton "LIGHTS CAMERA ACTION" Landsman. Not a single one of them would buy a book from Surgeon Richard/Hammer/comic-keys.

 

Do you STILL need more proof?

 

 

 

 

[PovertyRow]

Do you STILL need more proof?

 

Not to be a jerk, but no Proof of anything has been offered. There is no proof here that comic-keys restores his books. There is only proof that comic-keys did not accept your alternative. Beyond that, nothing has been proven.

 

So, I decided to call his bluff and structure the deal in a way that I thought was fair - unless, of course, he was a crook.

 

The amount of presumption in that statement - well - it awes me. You are saying anyone who does not accept to do business on the specific terms you have laid out has to be a crook. That stands on its own.

 

I don't know you at all and you may be a heck of a nice guy. So I am not attacking you so much as the ideas you are presenting and the manner in which they are presented and the assumptions that all would agree with the extrapolations you make.

[Illiterati-migration]

Do you STILL need more proof?

 

You didn't even BUY a book from him. I read all of that, and you didn't even buy a book. You have NO concrete evidence of anything. Amazing. Sure was awful of him not to want to bend over backwards for you.

 

I'd say you were wasting your time, but apparently e-stalking Hammer is just "what you do."

 

It looks to me like you just got cold feet on making the purchase. Do you have anything concrete to offer here other than Koos "lying" about his profession and your constant barrage of hearsay?

 

If not, the gavel is ready to drop in this Highe and Mightee Court Of Public Opinion.

 

"I'm on Ebay, you want a book, win it. You pay for it, like the rest of the world, if you submit it and it comes back purple, send it back to me. Simplicity itself. I like simplicity. That's why it's a hobby to me. Extra work I DON'T need. Thanks anyway." -Richard Koos

[HooDeeDoo]

Do you STILL need more proof?

 

You didn't even BUY a book from him. I read all of that, and you didn't even buy a book. You have NO concrete evidence of anything. Amazing. Sure was awful of him not to want to bend over backwards for you.

 

I'd say you were wasting your time, but apparently e-stalking Hammer is just "what you do."

 

It looks to me like you just got cold feet on making the purchase. Do you have anything concrete to offer here other than Koos "lying" about his profession and your constant barrage of hearsay?

 

If not, the gavel is ready to drop in this Highe and Mightee Court Of Public Opinion.

 

"I'm on Ebay, you want a book, win it. You pay for it, like the rest of the world, if you submit it and it comes back purple, send it back to me. Simplicity itself. I like simplicity. That's why it's a hobby to me. Extra work I DON'T need. Thanks anyway."

 

You must be French.

[fantastic_four]

FWIW, there's been 2 people on here who have claimed to have gotten back restored books from Comic-Keys. He did offer them refunds however. I don't have an opinion on Hammer as I have never bought from him, however, all the allegations surrounding him do make me a little uneasy to do so now. Unfounded or otherwise..

 

I've talked to 9 separate people who have bought books from comic-keys who have received a total between them of 12 books which have all come back from CGC restored. I've talked to one person who has received a Universal grade from a comic-keys purchase (it's one of the CGC 9.8 Spidey 122s). I've talked to four other people who haven't sent the books they bought from him in for certification and who can't detect restoration well enough to determine whether they're unrestored or not.

 

I suggested to him that he get more of his customers who have had their comics certified unrestored by a restoration professional to post testimonials here...but he dismissed that off the bat. Hard to believe there isn't ONE of his customers willing to vouch for his credibility. I tried to get the owner of the CGC 9.8 Spidey 122 to post here but he's afraid it would attach a stigma to the book.

[OldGuy]

It's nice that some of you still believe in the goodness of men and are giving him the benefit of the doubt, however, if you wake up and take a deep breath, you'll smell something - coffee.

 

Do you STILL need more proof?

 

What's your point? You've provided nothing that hasn't already been said over and over and over on these boards. Don't get me wrong, I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT BUYING A COMIC FROM COMIC_KEYS IS A GOOD IDEA (did you hear that?). I have also never said that it isn't a good idea. What I have said is that we've heard it all. What do you have to offer this discusion that is new? Nothing so far. Keep trying. Or better yet, let it go.

 

Until you or Steve or someone else has the proof or the balls, or both, to put up something other then opinion then there is nothing to say that hasn't already been said.

 

NEXT!

[Illiterati-migration]

You must be French.

 

In other words you've got nothing concrete to offer. I am shocked. Truly.

 

Move along, Hoo. You've wasted all our time with your empty accusations.

[HooDeeDoo]

Do you STILL need more proof?

 

You didn't even BUY a book from him. I read all of that, and you didn't even buy a book. You have NO concrete evidence of anything. Amazing. Sure was awful of him not to want to bend over backwards for you.

 

I'd say you were wasting your time, but apparently e-stalking Hammer is just "what you do."

 

It looks to me like you just got cold feet on making the purchase. Do you have anything concrete to offer here other than Koos "lying" about his profession and your constant barrage of hearsay?

 

If not, the gavel is ready to drop in this Highe and Mightee Court Of Public Opinion.

 

"I'm on Ebay, you want a book, win it. You pay for it, like the rest of the world, if you submit it and it comes back purple, send it back to me. Simplicity itself. I like simplicity. That's why it's a hobby to me. Extra work I DON'T need. Thanks anyway."

 

 

I love how you're not addressing Surgeon Richard's position. Don't you find it odd that never ONCE did he say they weren't restored? He just kept harping on if IF they come back with a purple label he'll give THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS back. He was willing to roll the dice with MY MONEY.

 

Would YOU trust him to return thousands of YOUR dollars? We're not talking about a VG Spidey #14 here.

 

Furthermore, it is a FACT that "some" books he's sold have come back restored (the exact number is still a mystery). Although it may not have happened to you or me, it still occurred.

[OldGuy]

I've talked to 9 separate people who have bought books from comic-keys who have received a total between them of 12 books which have all come back from CGC restored.

 

Can they post here? Can they post a scan? If anyone can offer proof that Hammer is selling books with undisclosed restoration that would sure help to clear the water around here.

[Illiterati-migration]

FWIW, there's been 2 people on here who have claimed to have gotten back restored books from Comic-Keys. He did offer them refunds however. I don't have an opinion on Hammer as I have never bought from him, however, all the allegations surrounding him do make me a little uneasy to do so now. Unfounded or otherwise..

 

I've talked to 9 separate people who have bought books from comic-keys who have received a total between them of 12 books which have all come back from CGC restored. I've talked to one person who has received a Universal grade from a comic-keys purchase (it's one of the CGC 9.8 Spidey 122s). I've talked to four other people who haven't sent the books they bought from him in for certification and who can't detect restoration well enough to determine whether they're unrestored or not.

 

I suggested to him that he get more of his customers who have had their comics certified unrestored by a restoration professional to post testimonials here...but he dismissed that off the bat. Hard to believe there isn't ONE of his customers willing to vouch for his credibility. I tried to get the owner of the CGC 9.8 Spidey 122 to post here but he's afraid it would attach a stigma to the book.

 

For the love of god. FF, I sincerely hope you're smart enough to realize that what EVERYONE here is asking for is SOMETHING concrete. You're so clearly trying to SEEM even-handed with your post that it's almost laughable. Everyone knows that you and Hammer don't get along and you've been up his [!@#%^&^] at every available opportunity... find some hard evidence and maybe someone will want to listen.

[murph0]

Two things, first of all.. on some of those nicknames for the East Coast guys

Second, I'm just curious to see if some of the people supporting Comic-Keys have bought from him? If not, their opinion bares just about as much weight as all the ppl claiming negative things about Comic-Keys. Either way this thread is very dumb, until someone who actually has BOUGHT a book from Comic-Keys and sent it in to be graded makes a post this is all heresay..

 

Brian