Ultimate Spider-Man Prices

[Bonds25]

Done!

[Rickdogg]

LMAO I noticed With no reserves lets see where they go

[Guest]

I always bid on Darth's books to get a peak at the auction end price

I assume this is a typo, rdogg, but the way it reads is totally different.

 

Sounds like an admission of shilling.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

Sounds like an admission of shilling

 

Which sure as hell isn't funny, I have turned in a seller for shill bidding.

 

*Hey Doc, the rest of this message is for anyone involved in shill bidding*

 

Shill bidding cheats eBay, and sellers! How would you like to find out that you paid considerably more for a comic book/books because a seller bid on his own auction or had a "friend" bid on one for him. If you want a certain price for a book/books, then pay the listing fee damn it (set a reserve), and don't give a buyer the false idea that he could get a good deal on a book! This is the sort of that pisses me off, and it's not much different than comic shop dealers that play the hot/killer supply/demand game to artificially raise prices on new books. Kiss my "hot" low supply Valliant

[Rickdogg]

lmao not shilling just putting in a small bid amount to watch the auction so i dont have to put it on my Full watch list De-lekkerste does it all of the time too I just noticed since we both bid on x-mens a lot.

[delekkerste]

It's only shill bidding if you're doing it in collusion with the seller to help bid

up the price for him.

 

As Ricky says, I often put in a bid at the minimum or one increment higher that

is easily overtaken so I don't have to fill up my Watch List. Sometimes that bid

is never overtaken and I end up getting stuck with the merchandise, but that's life,

not shill bidding.

 

Gene

[delekkerste]

I should re-emphasize that there must be *collusion with the seller* for the

practice of shilling to be present. If someone just guns up the price of a

book but is taking full risk on paying this higher price (i.e., no arrangement

with the seller not to pay), that does NOT even come close to meeting the

definition of shill bidding.

 

Gene

[Guest]

Just f'n with you, rdogg.

 

The use of peak changes the sentence.

 

And Man Of Steel, I think you can call off the dogs. Both DARTH and rickdogg are first class board members, and people who, from what I know of them, would not be involved in shilling. Sorry if my in jest post, punctuated with smiley icons, left any doubt.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

I should re-emphasize that there must be *collusion with the seller* for the

practice of shilling to be present.

 

Gene, you couldn't be more wrong on this. The following definition of shill bidding is taken directly from eBay's site.

 

Shill bidding according to eBay

 

"Q. What is shill bidding?

A. Shill bidding is the deliberate placing of bids to artificially raise the price of an item and is not allowed. To avoid the appearance of being involved this activity, family members and individuals living together, working together or sharing a computer, should not bid on each other's items."

 

"Q. Can my friends bid on my item?

A. If your friend sincerely intends to purchase your item, then her bids are certainly allowed. Bidding on your item for the sole purpose of inflating the final bid amount is forbidden."

 

"Q. Can sellers bid on their own listings?

A. Not any more. eBay originally allowed sellers to bid on their own listings as a way to close their listing without selling to the highest bidder. Unfortunately, this privilege was abused so it had to be eliminated. Now, bidding on your own item is considered shill bidding and is not allowed."

 

You have already admitted to deliberately bidding. Gene, when a seller bids on his own auction even in the manner which you describe, he is adding to the popularity of his item, just as a comic book dealer will hype new books. Also, however big or small, it DOES increase the bid to the next person, AND raising the price (say you start a book at 9.99 and raise it over that by .50 cents) DOES cheat eBay out of listing fees. Fair or unfair we should ALL follow the same rules.

 

[Darthdiesel]

MOS, where did Gene (delekkerste) say that he bids on his OWN auctions??? For the cheapie prices that rickdogg and delekkerste bid on auctions, I'm sure they would pay if they were the winners? What's wrong with bidding a low amount on an item that you want? Even if the bid realistically/in most cases will not earn them an item won, I think they have the right to bid on whatever item they want (except for their own auctions)

 

I have seen many forum members here post items for sale on ebay in the marketplace forum and I bid on their items because I'm interested in them. I would also like to consider myself "friendly" with these forum members based on my online interaction with them. So are you saying I am shilling for them by bidding on their auctions listed here in the marketplace forum?

[Darthdiesel]

Sorry if my in jest post, punctuated with smiley icons, left any doubt.

 

No harm done Doc - it seems that MOS may be an aggressive anti-shiller, (like most of us here), but should read the threads a little more accurately before jumping the gun.

[snizzenfixit]

Darth,

 

They are not shilling. You know, they know it, and I know it. If they win the auction they will buy the item. They are placing low bids so they would probably be delighted to win. MOS either misunderstood what was said, or ... well I would hope he just misunderstood what was stated above.

 

Phil

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

Shill bidding is the deliberate placing of bids to artificially raise the price of an item and is not allowed.

 

MOS, This point is argumentative. I know delekkerste is not a shill bidder. Rdogg may have given the wrong impression. Gene bids on a lot of auctions across the board. He does not do it to raise the price, nor does he renege on any of them, regardless of how ludicrously high, IMO , the ending price.

 

I bid on all USM 1 auctions across the board that I would be interested in winning. For example, every USM 1 white in VF/NM or higher is worth $75 to me so I bid across the board on every such item. Is that wrong? If I win all 10 on that week then I shell out $750 bucks plus shipping, big deal...please tell me how that is shilling?

[Darthdiesel]

Phil - I know and understand. My problem is that to people like MOS who are

UNCLEAR on applying the definition of shill bidding and goes off half cocked reporting honest sellers to eBay, can cause major problems for any seller because eBay will suspend them indefinitely until the seller can prove he has no nexus to the "crime" of shilling. Here, ebay treats the seller as guilty until proven innocent.

 

This to me, is more reprehensible behavior than shilling itself.

[snizzenfixit]

Darth;

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. I have disagreed more than once with MOS and he has definitely tweaked my buttons on a few threads here, but we will hope it was an honest misunderstanding

 

Phil

 

 

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

My problem is that to people like MOS who are

UNCLEAR on applying the definition of shill bidding and goes off half cocked reporting honest sellers to eBay, can cause major problems for any seller because eBay will suspend them indefinitely until the seller can prove he has no nexus to the "crime" of shilling.

 

I'm actually surprised that some of you are giving me the benefit of the doubt, and I appreciate that. I assure you I'm not here to cause trouble and I take offense to anybody that suggests otherwise. If I have somehow misunderstood someone (which could be the case), then I am sorry for having caused any grief or headaches. Also, DARTH you should know that in my 2 years with eBay, I have only reported 1 (ONE) seller for shill bidding. A seller that I had purchased a few comic books from, one that also overgraded (or didn't grade personally) 2/7 books. The sellers shill bidding was so blatantly obvious that I felt obligated to report them for the sake of future buyers. NO, I see no problem if Gene is bidding on somebody's auction with the intention of winning the item, that is how it should be done. However bidding on a friend's auction *without the intent of winning* is also considered shill bidding. Shill bidding should not be taken lightly, and these boards should not be used as a tool to aid shill bidding. If you are NOT guilty of shill bidding then you have nothing to worry about. As far as reporting to eBay is concerned, a report is a report, they probably get false reports all the time, it is NOT like they just take the reporters word for it, there must be evidence to back the report. I'm not going to report anybody here in to eBay, I don't have sufficiant evidence to prove anything. *case closed*

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

I have disagreed more than once with MOS and he has definitely tweaked my buttons on a few threads here

 

Phil, that comment was uncalled for, but you are entitled to your opinon/feelings. A few threads? Please explain. If you find a messageboard where you agree with everyone then let me know about it because I have yet to see one. There have been differences of opinions, and if you agreed with everyone wouldn't that get boring? I don't debate for the sake of debating, if I think I have a valid point, then I bring it up, otherwise I agree, just ask CI. We have debated, and we have agreed, these boards are going to have some of that. What can I say about my style of posting, other than it's my style and if you don't like it then I can't help that.

 

I take it you didn't vote for a Silver Surfer vol. 4? Oh well, at least the topic was Comic related.

[snizzenfixit]

Phil, that comment was uncalled for

 

Whaaa? I am the one who was giving you the benefit of the doubt here remember?

 

If you find a messageboard where you agree with everyone then let me know about it because I have yet to see one.

 

Uhhh ... Yeah, my point exactly. I don't necessarily agree with you but I don't jump to conclusions about you either. If I did you would have undoubtedly heard from me in the past. I have disagreed with you without making an issue of it, but since you asked, the problem has been the way you respond to people. You have been defensive and nasty at times, just like you were here.

 

What can I say about my style of posting, other than it's my style and if you don't like it then I can't help that.

 

I never said a word to you about you style of posting. In fact I have never said a word to you prior to this period. It would appear however that you have a problem with MY style of posting, and to quote you "I can't help that". Once again, you have misinterpreted someones words. Obviously, giving you the benefit of the doubt and defending your post was my mistake, it won't happen again.

 

Phil

 

[Darthdiesel]

OK...taking this down a notch...the problem with shill bidding is that sellers with regular buyers are often accused of shill bidding because it looks the same. Truth is I get a bunch of repeat buyers who are happy with my service. The reason why my feedback has 2x as many positives than is reflected by my feedback number.

I have had some newbie detractors accuse me of that very thing and report me and I've had a hell of a time convincing eBay that they are legit. I offerred to send them my paypal records, bank statements and the works to get off my back. all because of one fly by night insufficiently_thoughtful_person ebay buyer that had no clue what the f he was talking about. So as I believe in protecting the ebay community against shilling, I also am a proponent of making sure you have more than just a grudge over a couple overgraded books before ruining a person's means of income.

[Guest]

I regret teeing off this discussion.

 

Much ado over nothing, guys. MOS - you'll find the tolerance for shilling to be nil here. Ifyou follow the General posts, there are often auctions going on that are pointed out as being shill bid.

 

Asfor Gene, he often bids minimal amounts to track auctions' ending prices. Does he intend to win these auctions? Ohhhh, I think he'd take a DD 168 in 9.4 for $75....