POLL: Which is the better movie, X2 or Matrix: Reloaded?

[greedydealer-migration]

 

 

[joe_collector]

Well duh, X2 is like The Godfather mixed with Citizen Kane, compared to that Matrix Reloaded clap trap.

 

Until you see it, it's tough to understand how truly bad the movie is.

[MuadDib]

Matrix Reloaded was one of the worst movies I have ever seen. There was NO substance. What a shame, especially since the first one was a work of genious.

[lou_fine]

X2 without a doubt! The storyline is substantailly better and brings you right back to the Claremont & Byrne days. Starting to hint at some of the Days of Future Past storyline whicih I thought was the best X-Men story by far.

[supapimp]

just got back from seeing reloaded, and i don't know what you guys/girls are crying about. the movie was far superior to X2, and yes! i do read comics. i just think for those that didn't like it, you just didn't understand it. do your self a favour and watch the movie again. it's the same for people who don't like david lynch movies, it's cos that can't understand it. i might also add, people do not like what they can't understand.

 

that's just my 2 bills,

 

pimpy

[joe_collector]

i just think for those that didn't like it, you just didn't understand it.

 

Blow me , I found the philosophy to be of the dime-store variety and more aimed at kids. I think even the ants on the theatre floor "got" this movie.

 

I never thought you to be one of these knobs who sees a simplistic Matrix movie and then accuses detractors of "hating what they don't understand". Honestly, do you feel yourself mentally superor to everyone on here, some of which have some pretty hefty IQs?

 

I've read Plato, where much of the Matrix Reloaded gobble-de-gook comes from, and it's much better in the original form.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Did you understand "the cave" from Plato's Republic the 1st time you read it? Come on...tell the truth.

[supapimp]

Honestly, do you feel yourself mentally superor to everyone on here, some of which have some pretty hefty IQs?

CI...welcome back! i was wondering where you went? as for asking me if i feel mentally superior? that's like the pot calling the kettle black.

[joe_collector]

Sure pimpy, but do honestly believe I didn't "get" the movie? The simplistic philosophy couldn't be missed, since they repeated it ad infinitum for what seemed like hours; I felt like I was back in school.

 

The problem I had was that the movie sucked hard, and is an embarrassment and is like a pale shadow when compared to the classic original.

 

The only thing that bugs me more than wasting 2 hours of my life on that [!@#%^&^] are the dime-store philosophers who somehow think this movie is "deep" and that none but them can "understand it", when it's just regurgitating well-known concepts that can be picked up in any community college philosophy class.

 

Mind candy for the masses I guess.

[supapimp]

im sorry that you didn't get it, i wasn't at all dissapointed in the movie while viewing it. i didn't think it was too long, the only problem was the rave/making love scene, that could've been edited out. but the way the movie began, i thought was brilliant! it was a precursor of things to come, and the fight scene against the mr. smith's was extraordinary! "im not giving up on you, cos i love you too damn much!"

[joe_collector]

im sorry that you didn't get it

 

Correction (again - you Matrix heads should read better) you're sorry I didn't LIKE the movie, as a 10-year-old could easily grasp the nuances of Matrix Retarded.

 

That's the problem with talking the movie over with crack-head Matrix fans. If you didn't like the movie, you "didn't get it" and if you loved the movie you "got it".

 

This is worse than Trekkies.

[supapimp]

im sorry that you didn't get it

 

Correction (again - you Matrix heads should read better) you're sorry I didn't LIKE the movie, as a 10-year-old could easily grasp the nuances of Matrix Retarded.

 

That's the problem with talking the movie over with crack-head Matrix fans. If you didn't like the movie, you "didn't get it" and if you loved the movie you "got it".

 

This is worse than Trekkies.

crack-heads? go poke smot CI.

[joe_collector]

Maybe the crack head comment was a little harsh, but Matrix-Heads exist in a bizarre world where there can be no person who dislikes Reloaded, unless of course they "didn't get it".

 

It's a be-all, end-all type of existence where comprehending the movie automatically means you have to love it. This sect is so close-minded as to not even think of anyone who dislikes the film as anything but a simpleton who simply needs to watch the movie multiple times to join the enlightened.

 

The biggest joke is that there is very little "to get" assuming you've read the classics and taken part in at least one Philosophy class. Looking to Matrix Reloaded to provide "deep inner meaning" is like splashing around in the kiddie pool, and pretending you're swimming.

 

Here's some great quotes from Roger Ebert's review:

 

""The Matrix Reloaded," which plays like a collaboration involving a geek, a comic book and the smartest kid in Philosophy 101."

 

"The speeches provide not meaning, but the effect of meaning: It sure sounds like those guys are saying some profound things."

 

"That will not prevent fanboys from analyzing the philosophy of "The Matrix Reloaded" in endless Web postings. Part of the fun is becoming an expert in the deep meaning of shallow pop mythology; there is something refreshingly ironic about becoming an authority on the transient extrusions of mass culture, and Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne) now joins Obi-Wan Kenobi as the Plato of our age."

 

Now there's a well-read, intelligent, educated guy who certainly "got it".

[supapimp]

ahhh...sarcasism, not to mention ebert gave it an A-, but im going out for the evening, have fun kids!

[joe_collector]

ahhh...sarcasism, not to mention ebert gave it an A-, but im going out for the evening, have fun kids!

 

Actually, it was 70%, not an A-, unless those equate in the Matrix Universe.

 

And yeah, Ebert obviously doesn't mind the movie as much as the obsessed fans, who are a bit out there for most rational people. Talk about picking gnat poop from pepper.

[FlyingDonut]

ahhh...sarcasism, not to mention ebert gave it an A-, but im going out for the evening, have fun kids!

 

Actually, it was 70%, not an A-, unless those equate in the Matrix Universe.

 

And yeah, Ebert obviously doesn't mind the movie as much as the obsessed fans, who are a bit out there for most rational people. Talk about picking gnat poop from pepper.

 

Vince, you've clearly been taking lessons from BUG on spinning! I agree with Pimpy - I don't know why you hate it so much. The rave/boinking scene could have been cut, but I thought it was really quite good.

 

For all of you, here's Eberts FULL review. He LIKED IT. Note that FOUR stars is his top rating:

 

THE MATRIX RELOADED / ***1/2 ®

May 14, 2003

 

Neo Keanu Reeves

Morpheus Laurence Fishburne

Agent Smith Hugo Weaving

Trinity Carrie-Anne Moss

Oracle Gloria Foster

Niobe Jada Pinkett Smith

Zee Nona Gaye

Lock Harry Lennix

Link Harold Perrineau

Persephone Monica Bellucci

Twins Neil and Adrian Rayment

 

BY ROGER EBERT

 

Commander Lock: "Not everyone believes what you believe."

 

Morpheus: "My beliefs do not require that they do."

 

Characters are always talking like this in "The Matrix Reloaded," which plays like a collaboration involving a geek, a comic book and the smartest kid in Philosophy 101. Morpheus in particular unreels extended speeches that remind me of Laurence Olivier's remarks when he won his honorary Oscar--the speech that had Jon Voight going "God!" on TV, but in print turned out to be quasi-Shakespearean doublespeak. The speeches provide not meaning, but the effect of meaning: It sure sounds like those guys are saying some profound things.

 

That will not prevent fanboys from analyzing the philosophy of "The Matrix Reloaded" in endless Web postings. Part of the fun is becoming an expert in the deep meaning of shallow pop mythology; there is something refreshingly ironic about becoming an authority on the transient extrusions of mass culture, and Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne) now joins Obi-Wan Kenobi as the Plato of our age.

 

I say this not in disapproval, but in amusement. "The Matrix" (1999), written and directed by the brothers Andy and Larry Wachowski, inspired so much inflamed pseudo-philosophy that it's all "The Matrix Reloaded" can do to stay ahead of its followers. It is an immensely skillful sci-fi adventure, combining the usual elements: heroes and villains, special effects and stunts, chases and explosions, romance and oratory. It develops its world with more detail than the first movie was able to afford, gives us our first glimpse of the underground human city of Zion, burrows closer to the heart of the secret of the Matrix, and promotes its hero, Neo, from confused draftee to a Christ figure in training.

 

As we learned in "The Matrix," the Machines need human bodies, millions and millions of them, for their ability to generate electricity. In an astonishing sequence, we saw countless bodies locked in pods around central cores that extended out of sight above and below. The Matrix is the virtual reality that provides the minds of these sleepers with the illusion that they are active and productive. Questions arise, such as, is there no more efficient way to generate power? And why give the humans dreams when they would generate just as much energy if comatose? And why create such a complex virtual world for each and every one of them, when they could all be given the same illusion and be none the wiser? Why is each dreamer himself or herself, occupying the same body in virtual reality as the one asleep in the pod?

 

But never mind. We are grateful that 250,000 humans have escaped from the grid of the Matrix, and gathered to build Zion, which is "near the Earth's core--where there is more heat." As the movie opens, we are alarmed to learn that the Machines are drilling toward Zion so quickly that they will arrive in 36 hours. We may also wonder if Zion and its free citizens really exist, or if the humans only think so, but that leads to a logical loop ending in madness.

 

Neo (Keanu Reeves) has been required to fly, to master martial arts, and to learn that his faith and belief can make things happen. His fights all take place within virtual reality spaces, while he reclines in a chair and is linked to the cyberworld, but he can really be killed, because if the mind thinks it is dead, "the body is controlled by the mind." All of the fight sequences, therefore, are logically contests not between physical bodies, but between video game-players, and the Neo in the big fight scenes is actually his avatar.

 

The visionary Morpheus, inspired by the prophecies of the Oracle, instructed Neo--who gained the confidence to leap great distances, to fly and in "Reloaded" destroys dozens of clones of Agent Smith (Hugo Weaving) in martial combat. That fight scene is made with the wonders of digital effects and the choreography of the Hong Kong action director Yuen Wo Ping, who also did the fights in "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon." It provides one of the three great set pieces in the movie.

 

The second comes when Morpheus returns to Zion and addresses the assembled multitude--an audience that looks like a mosh pit crossed with the underground slaves in "Metropolis." After his speech, the citizens dance in a percussion-driven frenzy, which is intercut with Neo and Trinity (Carrie-Anne Moss) having sex. I think their real bodies are having the sex, although you can never be sure.

 

The third sensational sequence is a chase involving cars, motorcycles and trailer trucks, with gloriously choreographed moves including leaps into the air as a truck continues to move underneath. That this scene logically takes place in cyberspace does not diminish its thrilling 14-minute fun ride, although we might wonder--when deadly enemies meet in one of these virtual spaces, who programmed it? (I am sure I will get untold thousands of e-mails explaining it all to me.)

 

I became aware, during the film, that a majority of the major characters were played by African Americans. Neo and Trinity are white, and so is Agent Smith, but consider Morpheus; his superior Commander Lock (Harry Lennix); the beautiful and deadly Niobe (Jada Pinkett Smith), who once loved Morpheus and now is with Lock, although she explains enigmatically that some things never change; the programmer Link (Harold Perrineau); Link's wife, Zee (Nona Gaye), who has the obligatory scene where she complains he's away from home too much, and the Oracle (the late Gloria Foster, very portentous). From what we can see of the extras, the population of Zion is largely black.

 

It has become commonplace for science fiction epics to feature one or two African-American stars, but we've come a long way since Billy Dee Williams in "Return of the Jedi." The Wachowski brothers use so many African Americans, I suspect, not for their box-office appeal, because the Matrix is the star of the movie, and not because they are good actors (which they are), but because to the white teenagers who are the primary audience for this movie, African-Americans embody a cool, a cachet, an authenticy. Morpheus is the power center of the movie, and Neo's role is essentially to study under him and absorb his mojo.

 

The film ends with "To Be Concluded," a reminder that the third film in the trilogy arrives in November. Toward the end, there are scenes involving characters who seem pregnant with possibilities for Part 3. One is the Architect (Helmut Bakaltis), who says he designed the Matrix and revises everything Neo thinks he knows about it. Is the Architect a human, or an avatar of the Machines? The thing is, you can never know for sure. He seems to hint that when you strip away one level of false virtual reality, you find another level beneath. Maybe everything so far is several levels up?

 

Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time tells the story of a cosmologist whose speech is interrupted by a little old lady who informs him that the universe rests on the back of a turtle. "Ah, yes, madame," the scientist replies, "but what does the turtle rest on?" The old lady shoots back: "You can't trick me, young man. It's nothing but turtles, turtles, turtles, all the way down."

 

Copyright © Chicago Sun-Times Inc.

 

[SarcasmGuy-migration]

That review is a bit more comprehensive than Joe_Collector's rantings that "it blew".

 

I think X-Men 2 was fantastic.

But when you really get down to it...it's just people with powers on a screen.

Really pretty two-dimensional...the kind of thing a seven-year-old finds "cool".

(Or are they saying "tight" these days?)

 

Makes you wonder why Joe_Collector is so adamant that not only was the Matrix nowhere

near as good as X-Men 2, it doesn't even qualify as a "fair movie" in any respects.

 

Oh wait.

 

X-Men is Joe's baby. He's been nurturing it since childhood.

It's like he's a "pageant mom" and X-Men is trying for the crown.

Forget the judges, forget the talent, just be the loudest mom.

[supapimp]

uh-oh, take cover kids!

[drbanner]

just be the loudest

 

You're a quick learner!! Pass the popcorn Pimpy...here it comes...

[joe_collector]

Nope, I have come to understand that Matrix-Heads are not to be conversed with, like those surly hobos on the street asking for change.

 

Just lower your head and walk on by....