How many complete Timely collections currently exist?

[Scrooge]

I'm going to speculate that the missing 600 are issues with incomplete date information which is why they didn't turn up in a search by year.

 

Well I thought the same and that it's driven by the search function. So I went ahead and dumped the data locally and have been running some back of the envelope numbers quickly and came up with 1,649 with some estimation done to the data. Once I get a little more time, I'll get a definite number up. At any rate, we are now in the same ballpark

[Scrooge]

Here are 1,029 Timely issues whose title never saw an issue published after 1951 (Note: I included Cap Am, Human Torch and Subby in here, ignoring the revival). The titles are sorted by descending # of issue published so significant runs are highlighted.

 

Of course, the data does not show properly but you can decipher that this is Title then starting year then ending year and finally # of issues -

 

Title Beg Year End Year Pre-1951 #

Marvel Mystery Comics 39 49 91

Captain America Comics 41 54 75

Terry-Toons Comics 42 47 59

Joker Comics 42 50 42

The Human Torch 40 54 35

Sub-Mariner Comics 41 55 32

Comedy Comics 42 46 26

Krazy Komics 42 47 26

Gay Comics(2nd - Fall 44) 44 49 23

Tessie the Typist 44 49 23

Young Allies Comics 41 46 20

All Winners Comics 41 46 19

USA Comics 41 45 17

Junior Miss(2nd - Apr 47) 47 50 16

Jeanie Comics 47 49 15

Margie Comics 46 49 15

Teen Comics 47 50 15

Willie Comics 46 49 15

Hedy De Vine Comics 47 49 14

Super Rabbit 44 48 14

All Surprise 43 46 12

Cindy Comics 47 50 12

All-Select Comics 43 46 11

Blonde Phantom 46 49 11

Comedy Comics(2nd - May 48) 48 50 10

Crimefighters 48 49 10

Kid Komics 43 46 10

Lawbreakers Always Lose 48 49 10

Mystic Comics 40 42 10

Oscar Comics 47 49 10

Rusty Comics 47 49 9

Tex Morgan 48 50 9

Tex Taylor 48 50 9

Daring Mystery Comics 40 42 8

Frankie Comics 46 49 8

Funny Tunes 44 46 8

Miss Fury Comics 42 45 8

Lana 48 49 7

Silly Tunes 45 47 7

The Gunhawk 50 51 7

Comic Capers 44 46 6

Mitzi's Boy Friend 48 49 6

Red Warrior 51 51 6

Ziggy Pig-Silly Seal Comics 44 46 6

Blaze Carson 48 49 5

Funny Frolics 45 46 5

Ideal 48 49 5

Little Lizzie 49 50 5

Powerhouse Pepper Comics 43 48 5

Amazing Mysteries 49 50 4

Best Love 49 50 4

Casey - Crime Photographer 49 50 4

Complete Mystery 48 49 4

Daring Comics 44 45 4

Frankie and Lana 48 49 4

Ideal Comics 44 46 4

Mighty Mouse 46 47 4

My Love 49 50 4

Mystic Comics(2nd- Oct 44) 44 45 4

True Complete Mystery 49 49 4

Wacky Duck 46 47 4

All Western Winners 48 49 3

Blackstone The Magician 48 48 3

Cowboy Romances 49 50 3

Georgie and Judy 49 49 3

Krazy Krow 45 45 3

Little Aspirin 49 49 3

Little Lenny 49 49 3

Mitzi's Romances 49 49 3

My Romance 48 49 3

Namora 48 48 3

Reno Browne, Hollywood's Greatest Cowgirl 50 50 3

Rex Hart 49 50 3

Romance Tales 49 50 3

Sun Girl 48 48 3

The Kellys 50 50 3

Western Winners 49 49 3

Whip Wilson 50 50 3

Wonder Duck 49 50 3

Actual Romances 49 50 2

Animated Movie-Tunes 45 46 2

Awful Oscar 49 49 2

Best Western 49 49 2

Blaze the Wonder Collie 49 50 2

Captain America's Weird Tales 49 50 2

Cindy Smith 50 50 2

Comics for Kids 45 45 2

Cupid 49 50 2

Dopey Duck Comics 45 46 2

Faithful 49 50 2

Film Funnies 49 50 2

Frankie Fuddle 49 49 2

Komic Kartoons 45 45 2

Krazy Komics(2nd - Aug 48) 48 48 2

Li'l Willie Comics 49 49 2

Little Lana 49 50 2

Love Classics 49 50 2

Love Dramas 49 50 2

Love Secrets 49 50 2

Loveland 49 50 2

Marvel Boy 50 51 2

My Diary 49 50 2

Official True Crime Cases 47 47 2

Our Love 49 50 2

Rangeland Love 49 50 2

Romance Diary 49 50 2

Romances of the West 49 50 2

Rusty and Her Family 49 49 2

True Life Tales 49 50 2

True Western 49 50 2

Wacky Duck(2nd - Aug 48) 48 48 2

Western Life Romances 49 50 2

Wild West 48 48 2

Willie Comics(2nd - Jan 50) 50 50 2

Young Hearts 49 50 2

All Teen 47 47 1

All Winners Comics 46 46 1

All Winners Comics 48 48 1

Amazing Comics 44 44 1

Captain America 128 Page 42 42 1

Complete Comics 44 44 1

Cowgirl Romances 50 50 1

Crime Exposed 48 48 1

Dolly Dill 45 45 1

Gay Comics 44 44 1

Honeymoon 50 50 1

Junior Miss 44 44 1

Kid Movie Komics 46 46 1

Love Trails 49 50 1

Marvel Comics 39 39 1

Mitzi Comics 48 48 1

Molly Manton's Romances 49 49 1

Movie Tunes Comics 46 46 1

Oscar Comics(2nd - Nov 49) 49 49 1

Real Experiences 50 50 1

Red Raven Comics 40 40 1

Romances of Molly Manton 49 49 1

Romantic Affairs 50 50 1

Sport Stars 49 49 1

The Witness 48 48 1

Tiny Tessie 40 49 1

Tough Kid Squad Comics 42 42 1

True Adventures 50 50 1

[Scrooge]

Here's a much better image of the top runs -

 

[Scrooge]

Then there are about 620 (and this is just a first-run estimate) books whose series survived past 1951 - Only showing the top guys here because otherwise formatting is awful -

 

[Scrooge]

I came up with 1624 books from October 1939 to October 1951 (inclusive). using the bipcomics.com Timely catalog:

http://www.bipcomics.com/bip/listissues.cfm?famID=2&view=2&titleID=0

 

This includes counting two versions of Marvel Comics #1, the twelve Wisco-Klarer promo comics, two versions of Oscar #26 (#3), the 1948 Marvel Comics Survey, and the Marvel Mystery Comics Annual.

 

(I could be off +/- 2 books, it was a quick count)

 

Allright, so I went back and did an actual count on some to adjust my number and I came up with:

 

as mentioned before, titles not published after 1951 (with Cap, Torch and Subby) - 1,029

updated books published past 1951, counting only issues published before November 1951 - 592

 

for a total of 1,621 which is very close again so give or take a few, a complete set would run 1,625 issues and that's all genres compared to West's only SH number of 1,300 to 1,400 DCs.

[markseifert]

Great stuff, Scrooge and gifflefunk.

 

for a total of 1,621 which is very close again so give or take a few, a complete set would run 1,625 issues and that's all genres compared to West's only SH number of 1,300 to 1,400 DCs.

 

I'm a little surprised at the 1621 number for Timely books. I would have guessed significantly lower. I also would have guessed there were very substantially more GA DC's than Timely books, but perhaps that's not true (though I realize West's number is superhero only, and that there are presumably still more GA DC's than Timely books overall).

[HouseofComics.Com]

As I recall, Timely was doing pretty well in the late 40s so I'm not surprised there area lot of titles. I think I saw a Canadian reprint that claimed Timely was the top Canadian publisher at that time (whether true or not).

 

Marc

[markseifert]

As I recall, Timely was doing pretty well in the late 40s so I'm not surprised there area lot of titles. I think I saw a Canadian reprint that claimed Timely was the top Canadian publisher at that time (whether true or not).

 

Marc

 

In terms of number of books, I think it's the fact that DC had all those huge runs that gave me the impression that there might be substantially more GA DC books than Timely books.

 

Interesting about Timely material possibly being tops in Canada in the late 40's. I keep meaning to look into the Canadian Timely reprints more.

[Straw-Man]

i've been in a room of 4 timely collectors where there were 4 daring mystery 2's on display. the idea it is the rarest is bunk. mystic comics 4 much tougher; usa 11 nearly impossible to find.

[rjpb]

Agreed, which is the main reason I don't buy into Showcase #4 being the split between the Golden Age and the Silver Age (all the hero centric collectors may now boo and hiss). I think all pre-code books are part of the Golden Age:

 

I have to agree with you there. The funny thing is despite the insistence of many that Showcase #4 is the first SA comic book (as opposed to being the start of DC's Silver Age Hero revival) , historically most comic dealers have used the advent of the Comic's Code to devide their GA inventory from their SA.

[lou_fine]

There's also a couple of annuals, Marvel Mystery 132 pages & Captain America Comics 132 pages, Canadian. These are at least as rare or rarer than Daring Mystery Comics # 2.

 

That's another interesting question -- whether those should be included in a theoretical "complete Timely set" for the sake of argument. Extremely cool and sought after books, but on the other hand that could potentially open the door to numerous other little-known Canadian books with Timely material. Of course, those two have the benefit of having the same title as the US run, which many (most?) of the other Canadian books would not.

 

Nolan did state that she did not consider those Timely publications for the sake of her index, but I suspect you're right that many potential Timely completists would want them.

 

I reacted in pretty much the same fashion you did. I would say that they shouldn't be counted because the kid buying those Timelies in Kansas City, Denver or Chicago would never have seen those Canadian annuals. I don't see how they should be considered as part of the set. Now, if the collector wants to add them, fine but not a necessity.

 

 

Would agree with the sentiments of the original poster here.

 

I've also never really understood why these two Canadian reprint publications always attract so much attention and go for such huge dollars. I guess it must be the popularity of the two source U.S. publications since there are a lot of other Canadian reprints out there that are probably even tougher to find. Yet these books are not sought after and are virtually worthless in the marketplace in comparison.

[adamstrange]

There's also a couple of annuals, Marvel Mystery 132 pages & Captain America Comics 132 pages, Canadian. These are at least as rare or rarer than Daring Mystery Comics # 2.

 

That's another interesting question -- whether those should be included in a theoretical "complete Timely set" for the sake of argument. Extremely cool and sought after books, but on the other hand that could potentially open the door to numerous other little-known Canadian books with Timely material. Of course, those two have the benefit of having the same title as the US run, which many (most?) of the other Canadian books would not.

 

Nolan did state that she did not consider those Timely publications for the sake of her index, but I suspect you're right that many potential Timely completists would want them.

 

I reacted in pretty much the same fashion you did. I would say that they shouldn't be counted because the kid buying those Timelies in Kansas City, Denver or Chicago would never have seen those Canadian annuals. I don't see how they should be considered as part of the set. Now, if the collector wants to add them, fine but not a necessity.

 

 

Would agree with the sentiments of the original poster here.

 

I've also never really understood why these two Canadian reprint publications always attract so much attention and go for such huge dollars. I guess it must be the popularity of the two source U.S. publications since there are a lot of other Canadian reprints out there that are probably even tougher to find. Yet these books are not sought after and are virtually worthless in the marketplace in comparison.

 

Two words: Schomburg Covers.

 

If they had poorly drawn, poorly printed two-tone covers I think there'd be much less demand.

[adamstrange]

Agreed, which is the main reason I don't buy into Showcase #4 being the split between the Golden Age and the Silver Age (all the hero centric collectors may now boo and hiss). I think all pre-code books are part of the Golden Age:

 

I have to agree with you there. The funny thing is despite the insistence of many that Showcase #4 is the first SA comic book (as opposed to being the start of DC's Silver Age Hero revival) , historically most comic dealers have used the advent of the Comic's Code to devide their GA inventory from their SA.

 

There are lots of ways to split the comics and so I have no problem with people who consistently apply a rationale to group comics by themes/trends/etc. There's nothing with looking afresh at comics in order to understand them better. The reason you don't see these change out in the public is that the hobby has to have a consistent way to group books to help buyers search their stock and, like the qwerty type writer, we're pretty much set in our ways.

 

Speaking of various ways of lumping/splitting, I'm not a big fan of grouping 1950-54 books with the WWII books. I think there is a unique spirit in each of those two eras that is worth differentiating. But that's me.

[HouseofComics.Com]

The funny thing is despite the insistence of many that Showcase #4 is the first SA comic book (as opposed to being the start of DC's Silver Age Hero revival) , historically most comic dealers have used the advent of the Comic's Code to devide their GA inventory from their SA.

 

Yeah, it's a very clean way to do it. I don't want to have to memorize the date of Showcase 4 and then carefully check books to see if they are before that date or after. I'd rather just see if it has a code symbol on it or not. (Dells I have to look up.) And while atom age books certainly have a different feel than true GA, I don't want to have too many categories taking up real estate on the site. Same thing with Timely/Atlas/Marvel. For sorting purposes, they are all Marvels to me. I didn't want a situation where someone might pick Atlas because they like Astonishing and then miss the early issues (even though those are Marvelboy issues).

 

Aren't the Canadian superhero annuals really, really hard to find? With the high cover price and the non-favor superheroes were in, I'd think they'd be about the rarest Canadian issues.

 

Marc

[Scrooge]

Great stuff, Scrooge and gifflefunk.

 

for a total of 1,621 which is very close again so give or take a few, a complete set would run 1,625 issues and that's all genres compared to West's only SH number of 1,300 to 1,400 DCs.

 

I'm a little surprised at the 1621 number for Timely books. I would have guessed significantly lower. I also would have guessed there were very substantially more GA DC's than Timely books, but perhaps that's not true (though I realize West's number is superhero only, and that there are presumably still more GA DC's than Timely books overall).

 

Okay, for those still tuned in the numbers, the 1,621 Timelys compare to an all-genre DC total up to October 1951 of 2,261or a difference of 640 comics.

[markseifert]

Okay, for those still tuned in the numbers, the 1,621 Timelys compare to an all-genre DC total up to October 1951 of 2,261or a difference of 640 comics.

 

Thanks again for piecing together the info and doing the math on this stuff, Scrooge. The numbers for GA DC vs Timely are much closer than I would have suspected.

 

This has me thinking... working on a set of non-superhero Timely books might be a very challenging yet not outrageously expensive collecting goal.

[Scrooge]

Okay, for those still tuned in the numbers, the 1,621 Timelys compare to an all-genre DC total up to October 1951 of 2,261or a difference of 640 comics.

 

Thanks again for piecing together the info and doing the math on this stuff, Scrooge. The numbers for GA DC vs Timely are much closer than I would have suspected.

 

This has me thinking... working on a set of non-superhero Timely books might be a very challenging yet not outrageously expensive collecting goal.

 

And because not expensive, it will be that much more challenging. Yes, lower priced books can be harder to find than higher priced books. I don't want to repeat myself but some Romance and obscure funny animals books are tough to get and impossible to find in higher grade. Anytime you need numbers, I love that stuff.

[adamstrange]

Okay, for those still tuned in the numbers, the 1,621 Timelys compare to an all-genre DC total up to October 1951 of 2,261or a difference of 640 comics.

 

Thanks again for piecing together the info and doing the math on this stuff, Scrooge. The numbers for GA DC vs Timely are much closer than I would have suspected.

 

This has me thinking... working on a set of non-superhero Timely books might be a very challenging yet not outrageously expensive collecting goal.

 

And because not expensive, it will be that much more challenging. Yes, lower priced books can be harder to find than higher priced books. I don't want to repeat myself but some Romance and obscure funny animals books are tough to get and impossible to find in higher grade. Anytime you need numbers, I love that stuff.

 

I think there are just under 400 Timely books with a superhero story or cover so that still leaves 1200 hundred books to chase down. I think it would cost a bit, and, as Scrooge noted, take a while. Still, if you like challenges, it's probably easier than tracking down the 2200-odd Atlas books.

[tth2]

Agreed, which is the main reason I don't buy into Showcase #4 being the split between the Golden Age and the Silver Age (all the hero centric collectors may now boo and hiss). I think all pre-code books are part of the Golden Age:

 

I have to agree with you there. The funny thing is despite the insistence of many that Showcase #4 is the first SA comic book (as opposed to being the start of DC's Silver Age Hero revival) , historically most comic dealers have used the advent of the Comic's Code to devide their GA inventory from their SA.

What difference does it make from a dealer's point of view whether a book is SA or GA? It's not like the book changes price as a result. So the way they might split them for convenience is irrelevant.

 

From a comic historian's point of view, a hero-centric emphasis makes much more sense because like it or not, superheroes are at the core of the American comic book. Comics existed before Action #1, but everyone agrees that the Golden Age started with Action #1. Why? Because it was the first modern superhero, and Superman's instant popularity cemented comic books' role in American pop culture.

[Point Five]

Would agree with the sentiments of the original poster here.

 

I've also never really understood why these two Canadian reprint publications always attract so much attention and go for such huge dollars. I guess it must be the popularity of the two source U.S. publications since there are a lot of other Canadian reprints out there that are probably even tougher to find. Yet these books are not sought after and are virtually worthless in the marketplace in comparison.

 

Two words: Schomburg Covers.

 

If they had poorly drawn, poorly printed two-tone covers I think there'd be much less demand.

 

I think the Captain America annual cover is by Sid Shores? (originally the cover to CA #22), though it looks tremendous on the few copies of the annual I've seen & I agree with the spirit of your comment.