Intriguing Definitional Changes In New 2006 Overstreet Guide

[Scheradon]

Here's an option:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/I-CARE-TO-LISTEN_W0QQitemZ9505607442QQcategoryZ16709QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Red Hook]

[jimjum12]

With cleaning they are probably considering the solvents used to be the additive.Now if one chooses to split hairs,pressing includes the ADDITON of pressure to the book.I personally don't have a big problem with pressing,especially when it is disclosed.I just find an unpressed 9.4 to have a bit more zing than a pressed one.For me it is on the same kind of plane with page quality.I think a C/OW 9.4 is beautiful but not as much so as a WHITE 9.4.Pressing vs.unpressed affects me on that level.I'm also glad that 9.2 is still the top grade as I never felt that 9.4 values could be pre-determined in any kind of realistic fashion.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[FlyingDonut]

My point to the Donut is that if I were in his shoes, I'd simply treat it like one of the debates along the lines of "Who'd win in a fight, Wolverine or Spider-Man". Since I have no interest in the answer, even though it, or it's equivalent are debated over and over on the boards......I simple move on. No problemo.

 

I can understand your irritation at the fact that the debate goes on and may not be resolved for a long time, if ever. But to be irritated by it's very existance is kinda' futile, don't you think? Besides, there are new people coming on board here all the time, so we gotta' keep them up on what's happening.

 

It's obviously a debate thats of interest to enough people to keep it going, otherwise it would die out. It hasn't. Sorry 'bout that. But as far as I'm concerned, the people posting about how tired they are of the topic, are as much of a broken record as the people taking part in the discussion. So I do like your choice of a record label to signify your displeasure.

 

 

Wolverine, because he'd cheat.

 

Hulk 181.

 

[FlyingDonut]

I don't care about crime. We keep hearing about it overandoverandoverandoverandover

 

People should care. Or just stick to glorious market reports.

 

And my market report wasn't glorious.

[Red Hook]

The market reports are the best part of the book.

[divad]

Punisher, because he did kill every hero in the Marvel Universe

 

Chuck Norris . . .

[FFB]

good question. but Im sure the answer is that residue from the cleaning agents remains "added" to the comic afterwards.

 

Not if they use a volatile solvent, like Naphtha or Acetone, to clean the book. Those solvents dissipate completely, leaving no trace behind. That's why you can't tell if a book has been solvent cleaned if the professional does it correctly.

 

The retention of organic solvents in paper

 

Good article. And I quote: "However, the results of this investigation do indicate that most ordinary solvents will not be retained by the cellulose in paper under a normal museum environment."

 

[esquirecomics]

Prove what, that I don't care about the incessant bleating about pressing and restoration? I really don't care. Everyone's mind has been made up already, and we just go aroundandaroundandaroundandaroundandaroundandaround about the same issue overandoverandoverandoverandover again.

 

Silly, silly donut. You are missing the point. There is a much larger issue at play here that extends beyond the debate of pressing and restoration. It is the 180 degree shift of a policy position by Overstreet/Gemstone on an issue that also happens to be very controversial. The merits of the position are a separate issue.

 

I spoke this morning with a very, very senior person affiliated with the Guide and this person didn't even know of the definitional changes. The matter is now being looked at to determine who made the changes and why. I hope to know more tomorrow.

[Warlord]

No one has mentioned that the new restoration definition also omits trimming?

[Aman619]

sounds like a quick late night cut and paste edit job by a lone VERY senior Overstreeter who doesnt need to have his work fact-checked, huh?

[LearnedHand]

What is the Point of the Guide?

 

I was going to post this discretely, but decided this thread offers a good segue:

 

Some may recall that I started a thread a while ago asking about where the Guide gets its information. After all inputs on that thread, the answer boiled down to this – the Guide may base some of its information on some indirect relationship with market realities. Today, the Guide has besmirched itself further:

 

As bad as the Guide's definitions were before (Unrestored below 9.6 does not require the book to have its original staples??!!), Gemstone has now decided to revise its restoration definition to exclude pressing. Personally, I don’t have a problem with pressing, so my comments here are not motivated by my personal opinion. They are motivated by my concern over Gemstone being so obtuse or overbearing relative to a (philosophical) policy change of such import and magnitude. If Gemstone was basing this decision on a hobby-wide accepted understanding, then fair enough. But, this isn’t the case. There is sufficient debate, both public and private, for anyone in the hobby to know that the categorization of pressing is far from settled.

 

People have mentioned that Geppi (a.k.a Gemstone) is hands-off. I won’t pretend to be in Geppi’s mind, so I’ll point out some facts:

 

-Geppi didn’t get to be such a success without being very hands-on in his enterprises, regardless of any ridiculous P.R. claims.

 

-Geppi has the largest comic book collection on earth.

 

-The Guide is (for the masses) the most widely accepted tool for establishing guidelines relative to everything – grading, restoration, and values – so people will typically rely on it when making buying/selling decisions.

 

-As Geppi has the biggest collection on earth, there will be more instances where changes to the Guide will affect his collection’s value than anyone else’s.

 

Given the above facts, does it come as a surprise to anyone that there is an appearance of a conflict of interest? To turn this into an analogous hypothetical (no direct implications here) - if I was in the position to somehow control the NYSE to benefit my stock portfolio, this would be quite tempting. That’s why there is an SEC – to ensure fidelity. When it comes to comic books, there is no watchdog. Gemstone (and every other entity that has a direct affect on hobby dynamics) is on the honor system. So, when discussing any of these entities, I’m not sure why some people, as an initial reaction, continually and perilously make unnatural assumptions about human nature.

 

With all the above said it’s clear that the Guide is becoming (or has become) almost completely irrelevant – much to the shame of Robert and Jeff’s original brainchild. It does not reflect any known reality and offers nothing but a lot of paid-for dealer advertisements and someone’s wet dream of the perception of the hobby (plus a nice Gallery Photo section).

 

That said, I still think Gemstone (Tom, I know you're reading this thread) must publicly and quickly offer a comprehensive explanation for this unwarranted change to the restoration definition. And the explanation has to be based on widespread hobby canons. Anything else, and I think the whole hobby stability slogan Overstreet was pushing for years evolves into an issue for the FTC to look into.

 

 

POSTSCRIPT: Mark Zaid's query (and this thread) should result in only one type of response from Gemstone - an official statement to the hobby by Gemstone. Anything else is unacceptable. Mark is not a paid Gemstone spokesperson, and I for one am not interested in a funneled second-hand communication. Finally, Gemstone's motivation for responding shouldn't be predicated by "who knows who."

 

LH

[Thegoldenage]

Well said.

[Red Hook]

[Timulty]

LET GUIDEGATE BEGIN!!!!

[awe4one]

That said, I still think Gemstone (Tom, I know you're reading this thread) must publicly and quickly offer a comprehensive explanation for this unwarranted change to the restoration definition. And the explanation has to be based on widespread hobby canons. Anything else, and I think the whole hobby stability slogan Overstreet was pushing for years evolves into an issue for the FTC to look into.

 

 

Did they think no one would notice?

 

Jim

[lou_fine]

And what did they say? Dont leave me hanging.

I would especially love to hear what Geppi has to say because he dont give a poop about anything.

 

No response yet, but it is not even 10:00 am.

 

POSTCRIPT: I have now received a call but due to schedules the conversation will happen tomorrow. I'll update the thread when additional information is known.

 

Mark;

 

It's now beem more than a day later.

 

Have you heard back from anybody on this definitional change?

[Scheradon]

And what did they say? Dont leave me hanging.

I would especially love to hear what Geppi has to say because he dont give a poop about anything.

 

No response yet, but it is not even 10:00 am.

 

POSTCRIPT: I have now received a call but due to schedules the conversation will happen tomorrow. I'll update the thread when additional information is known.

 

Mark;

 

It's now beem more than a day later.

 

Have you heard back from anybody on this definitional change?

 

[codfish]

Like I said too few people trying to control all the market. While it has been pointed ou tto me that Geppi does not technically hold a monopoly on the comic market as a whole he sure controls the the direct market. If he controls that then so do his buddies and that is not good for the end consumer.

[esquirecomics]

I'm in Rochester, NY visiting my alma mata the University of Rochester. Already ate two Nick Tahoe garbage plates for those who frequent the area, and about to go for a third!

 

By late yesterday afternoon, I had spoken with both John Snyder and Tom Gordon in detail about this topic. I am scheduled to speak again with Tom Monday afternoon, and I am fairly confident that an official statement will be released by Gemstone about the issues I identified. More to follow tomorrow.