Collectors, are they swayed by the masses.

[ninanina]

Here's something that came up in another thread and rather than go off-topic, I figured I'd start up a new post. This concerns restoration. Now, think a bit before you answer, 'cause you're automatic response may not be the true one.

 

As you all are aware, I recently picked up VF restored copy of Fantastic Four #1 for VG guide. This particular issue, was purchased years ago from the same dealer for several thousand dollars more during the time restoration was more accepted. I couldn't help feeling when I purchased this book the collector, whoever he was, may have dumped the book because now restoration was frowned upon. So, when someone explained a post given by hammer, I remembered the story behind my getting this book.

 

1) Is it possible this collector was influenced by the collecting community in selling this comic back to the dealer for a fraction of the price he paid for it?

 

2) Given a choice between purchasing an unrestored VG copy of Fantastic Four #1 or an Amazing Fantasy #15, to purchasing a restored VF of either copy, what would you do? (Price is the same.)And, if you choose the VG copy, would that decision in ANY way be influenced by what other people think, or how they feel about restoration?

 

Remember, that VF certainly looks a lot finer.

 

This question is for people that plan on keeping the comic, not re-selling it.

 

You know my answer.

 

What's yours?

[murph0]

If it was for reading purposes, it wouldn't matter to me whether or not it was restored. If it was for collecting purposes, I would not buy a restored copy.

 

Brian

[Mushroom]

Here is my view....and let me tell you that some of my change of heart has been as a result of this forum.

 

I like my books unrestored, however where books are in short supply or where the price is beyond my limits then I will gladly take a restored copy. Where I have changed my thinking though is around books that I want for eye appeal. The following is a my example.

 

This is the highest unrestored copy of Miss America #1.

 

Miss America #1 unrestored

 

The census says there are 2 7.0's, 1 5.0, and 1 3.5. As you can see the 7.0 went for 910.00.

 

Now I bought a restored off Araich (8.5) for $470 and in every way its' eye appeal is far superior to the 7.0. Do I think I got a bargain...............absolutely............would I rather have the 7.0......no (I bought the restored book because of its' beauty)

 

As to your other point. I think the guy was an investor and decided to cut his losses while he could. If it had been me I would have shown it off and not told anybody it was restored.

[COI]

If it was for reading purposes, it wouldn't matter to me whether or not it was restored. If it was for collecting purposes, I would not buy a restored copy.

 

Why not? If you could only afford around $1000 to spend on a book, or could never see yourself spending 10K on an unrestored high grade, why not go for the better looking copy? For a collector who has no intention of EVER paying multiple thousands for a single book, the restored copy makes more sense.

 

 

[ninanina]

If it was for reading purposes, it wouldn't matter to me whether or not it was restored. If it was for collecting purposes, I would not buy a restored copy.

 

So that means you'd buy the VG?

[murph0]

Because I want the original thing. So obviously I'd be willing to pay for it. If I wanted to do this whole restored thing.. I'd just buy the first 50 ASM books in restored 9.4, pay like 4,000 dollars and then fill out the rest cheaply. But I don't..so I won't.

 

Brian

[murph0]

If it was for reading purposes, it wouldn't matter to me whether or not it was restored. If it was for collecting purposes, I would not buy a restored copy.

 

So that means you'd buy the VG?

 

For reading, it'd be a toss up. I'd be more inclined to buy the lower grade one so I don't worry about damage. But the VF might be a better route as far as ease of sale goes..

I wouldn't buy either of them for collecting purposes.

 

Brian

[COI]

And, if you choose the VG copy, would that decision in ANY way be influenced by what other people think, or how they feel about restoration?

 

Here's the flaw to your question; do you think anyone is going to come on here and say "I want the unrestored copy because I'm swayed by mass opinion"? When someone is influenced by others, they mostly don't realize they are and will think that their opinion is their own.

 

If someone would never pay 15K for a comic, whether they had that kind of cash or not, and they are strictly a collector, I definetly cannot see the logic of buying the unrestored VG. It makes no sense! If you're going to spend $1000 and ONLY $1000 on a specific book, why buy the eye sore?

[COI]

Because I want the original thing. So obviously I'd be willing to pay for it. If I wanted to do this whole restored thing.. I'd just buy the first 50 ASM books in restored 9.4, pay like 4,000 dollars and then fill out the rest cheaply. But I don't..so I won't.

 

First off, you would not be able to but the first 50 issues in a restored high grade for $4,000.

 

Second, you can realistically get all the books you want in unrestored condition, and are willing to spend the cash, so that's different.

 

But if you didn't have that kind of money, or were not willing to shell out, why not go for the better looking copy?

 

The real thing? We're talking light to moderate resto, not total reconstruction! You are buying the real thing.

[murph0]

I'm not very interested in speculating what I'd do if I wasn't interested in the original comic or couldn't afford them. My opinion is, as originally stated, for reading..whatever is okay..for collecting..unrestored is it.

As far as a book being the real thing? Sorry, it's not. It's had work done. It may be a form of the original "real thing" but simply isn't the original "real thing"

 

Brian

[hammer-migration]

Here's something else that no one has mentioned. With the rare exception of some ultra rare golden age books (Tec 1, 27, Action 1, MF 52, Adv.40, etc.), most books in the Good to VG range are going to retain their present value FOREVER, or at least, for a major portion of our lifetimes. VG is the static axis point and the higher the grade, the more positioned the item is AWAY from the axis, turning the fastest. If an FF1 is worth $1500 in VG TODAY, chances are, that in 5 years, it's value will be still centered around $1500. If a tastefully restored F/VF is worth approx. the same thing as a VG ($1500), and in all probability, in five years ITS value will still be $1500, why not enjoy owning the BETTER LOOKING, more attractive book for the SAME price that will most likely have BOTH market values never experience a big difference in the forseeable future? If you want to SELL the restored F/VF 5 years from now, you'll get your money back. If you want to sell the VG 5 years from now, you'll get your money back. What's the real difference?

[ninanina]

Here's the flaw to your question; do you think anyone is going to come on here and say "I want the unrestored copy because I'm swayed by mass opinion

 

Agreed. So...this may not get too far. Murph0's answer doesn't count because he wouldn't buy either book. You don't have a problem answering 'cause you don't mind the restored book. And I don't think anyone's going to admit the ONLY reason they don't like restored is because everybody says it's bad.

 

But I have a question for Murph0?

 

Yes, there is hope for this thread yet.

[LordRahl]

The restored VF. Assuming it was a book I planned on keeping for a long time. I don't really care about public opinion, and I'd rather have the nicer looking book. I personally don't care if a book is restored and who knows, public opinion might change at some point.

[ninanina]

As far as a book being the real thing? Sorry, it's not. It's had work done. It may be a form of the original "real thing" but simply isn't the original "real thing"

 

Murph0, not meaning to corner you but although I know there are many people that agree and I hope I hear from them when I ask:

 

Books, posters, paper money and other collectables don't have this negativity as far as restoration goes. What's the difference?

 

Everything inside is the real thing.

 

 

 

 

[doyle033]

Actually, my opinion is different. if a person sells a part of his/her collection just because of the percieved disapproval of others in the hobby, then that person is an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. not to say that selling it for ones own reasons is stupid, just that selling it for anyone else's reasons IS. I think it would be hard for anyone to do this also. a guy who bought a AF 15 or FF1 in G/VG and had it restored to a VF for collecting purposes would be reticent to part with it for a loss just because of the opinions of others. surely there had to be other reasons for selling. I would personally cherish a high grade resto uber key book like that. Most of this stuff goes into my deep storage anyhow and would not see the light of day for many years so current thinking on restoration will have changed about 5 times since none of my deep stuff will be sold till i am dead or my kids are going to need the cash they generate.

[murph0]

I like the original book in it's off-the-presses completeness. When you start adding or taking away from the book, you are creating a different entity from the book itself sort of a Frankenstein effect if you will. Restoring a book does make it nicer, but IMO it simply isn't the original book anymore. Which is why I'd be willing to pay much more for a non-restored book than I would for a restored book.

I'm not collecting anything real rare or hard to find (with the exception of G.A. Caps) and finding the nice book in the condition I want and without the restoration is part of the process I'd like to do.

I'm not negative toward restoration, I just don't want any books with it. If I was negative towards it I would say bad things about it, all I've been saying is I just don't want a book with restoration and then my reasons for not wanting one.

 

Brian

 

P.S. Let me put it this way, if there's suddenly a huge upswing in restored books. That's great, I still won't be buying them. If someone else wants to they can, and hopefully they'll enjoy it. It's just simply not for me.

[ninanina]

Here's something else that no one has mentioned. With the rare ....

 

Now, that makes a lot of sense. That FF 1 and the Justice League 1 I've got look spectacular. So does that Amazing Fantasy 15 we've been looking on these threads. Take any of those comics and put them against their VG counter-part and hey, it's no contest.

 

I would not spend current VG guide for a high - priced VG comic. Not when there are gorgeous restored copies out there. I mean, gee all I want to do is look at them and read them. I do enjoy looking at them more, when they look good. Bar none.

[Darthdiesel]

As far as a book being the real thing? Sorry, it's not. It's had work done. It may be a form of the original "real thing" but simply isn't the original "real thing"

 

Murph0, not meaning to corner you but although I know there are many people that agree and I hope I hear from them when I ask:

 

Books, posters, paper money and other collectables don't have this negativity as far as restoration goes. What's the difference?

 

Everything inside is the real thing.

 

 

My take on this is that it falls under the manufactured collectible category after it's had restoration.

 

Two collectors have the same VG key (AF15 lets say) and defects are identical in every way. someone can afford to have the best restorers work on his book and bring that VG to an APP VF+, while the other collector can't afford the $100's to invest in fixing up his books and does some amateur resto (color touch, pressing,some erasing with WonderBread) all the way up to a FN-.

 

To me, both books are unappealing now because they've been fixed in ways just to increase it's APPARENT value, not for preservation. The only difference is one guy had more money to throw at its getting fixed.

 

I don't collect posters or cars, bt if my sports cards had tape on them to fix a tear or had marker on it to "fix" a faded spot, I wouldn't want it or want to spend big bucks on it either...

[THE_BEYONDER]

I still think I'd want the unrestored copy. I want the "REAL THING". I'd rather have a copy that SHOWS it's age. If I'm going to own RESTORED books that look better than they really are, I'd rather they be "raw" books from MY collection.. It would be cool to see how "GOOD" they could LOOK. If I'm going to own RESTORED comics, I want to know what they looked like BEFORE........

[COI]

You don't have a problem answering 'cause you don't mind the restored book.

 

Like Murph, my collecting preference is unrestored high grade, reason being that I'm more of a collector than a reader. Another quirky thing about me is that I do NOT like large quantity. This means, unlike most collectors, I'm NOT looking to have a massive collection. The thought of owning boxes and boxes of comics gives me a headache.

 

That being said, I prefer to sink my money into higher quality stuff. For me, that's high grade unrestored silver/early bronze. But at the same time, I'm a single 24 year old, and at this point I do not have a wife/kids to worry about. So, since I've already decided to focus on quality, and spend the money, I will NOT buy restored books because silver/bronze is plentyful, and there is no reason for me to buy restored.

 

But if I was a G.A collector, and bought books of extreme rarity, I would not mind a restored book, as long as the restoration is disclosed to me.

 

I just found out that one of my high grade ASM 14's has slight color touch, and I am PISSSED. So to answer another question of yours, it is the deceptive way that restoration is used that makes it bad, not the resto itself.