Collectors, are they swayed by the masses.

[Darthdiesel]

P.S. Let me put it this way, if there's suddenly a huge upswing in restored books. That's great, I still won't be buying them.

 

If there is this upswing in restored, I'll be breaking out the black marker and color touching until there's no tomorrow, then I'll be taking out my razor and trimming some of my VG silver age...

[COI]

When you start adding or taking away from the book, you are creating a different entity from the book itself

 

So if you were to pull the average woman off the street, add makeup, style her hair, put in contacts, maybe get her to tone up, wouldn't it still be the same girl, just with a nicer appearance?

 

BTW, there are no attractive women who stay in their "natural state". They do lots of plucking, shaving and applying to look the way they do.

[murph0]

When you have to have hip replacement surgery it's "metal" and no longer bone..however it's still part of the skeletal system (or whatever) so you'd consider this to be completely original? Foreign part, replacing a natural part?

 

Brian

[COI]

It depends on the type of restoration:

 

Trimming comics is akin to losing weight or getting a hair cut.

 

Color touch is Makeup.

 

Clean and pressed is taking a shower, and doing crunches.

 

[murph0]

Not really b/c all of those can be removed or come back. Once you cut off an edge of a book, it doesn't miraculously grow back.

Makeup can be taken off and you're back to original. Color touch can be removed but you're basically restoring restoration.

You can gain back or lose weight. I don't usually take showers with my paper collectables. So I don't know why someone would want their book cleaned and pressed.

All those things you mentioned are irreversable as far as restoration goes (of course you could unrestore the restoration but then you'd still have a restored book)

 

Brian

[COI]

 

My post was B.S anyway.

[Aman619]

I always use the "ugly girl with makeup" analogy. Its late at night and you go home with a "beauty only to wake up next to the "real thing"...its false advertising!

 

Anyway--(Id wouldnt buy it, preferring high grade) but given this choice presented here, I'd buy the unrestored VG. Just say NO to restored books. "It looks nicer" doesnt cut it for me. Its like an artificial flower or plant compared to a real one.

 

But I wouldnt buy either one because for the money either would cost, Id buy a different book in high grade.

 

As for other collectibles allowing restoration? well, each has is reasons why it is accepted. But its NOT acceptable in comics. I hope it never will because every Tom Dickless Harry with a felt tip will be "improving their books.

[Lofwyr]

I don't like restored books that are restored without an actual need.The biggest travesty are the minor "apparent" grades because they could have just been left alone. On the otherhand I feel that books that were total [!@#%^&^] (Poor, Fair,Good) could benefit greatly from restoration. It's only these classes that are worth restoring IMO. Anything VG or above should be left alone.

 

If I was going to throw down money for a book i'd be just as happy with a nice VG as I would with a VF (restored.) I'd rather have the VG because it's the original article.

[LordRahl]

I always use the "ugly girl with makeup" analogy. Its late at night and you go home with a "beauty only to wake up next to the "real thing"...its false advertising!

 

You use the "ugly girl with makeup" analogy. How about this though? You have a 64 1/2 Mustang with only 5K miles on it, perfect working order but the paint is chipped and faded. What do you do? Paint it or leave it in it's original unrestored state? If you paint it, that's false advertising, because the car is no longer original. But guess what, most people would paint it. RIGHT NOW, resto in comics is frowned upon. Probably MOSTLY due to the amount of books that have been sold as unrestored but have had work done, like AK Spidey 14. That would [!@#%^&^] me off too. Eventually I think resto will be more acceptable as long as you know you're buying a resto'd book.

[Darthdiesel]

Eventually I think resto will be more acceptable as long as you know you're buying a resto'd book.

 

REsto was acceptable and sought as a legit service in the past. But then some dealers decided use this as a tool to increase profits by not disclosing resto on apparent high grade books and now everyone has "seen the light" and feel rightfully so that resto has just become a tool for evil and that nothing good can come of it. (except maybe preservation in the most extreme cases) Losing this prevading thought on resto in the comics industry will take a lot and probably will not happen in our lifetimes.

[murph0]

Actually, interestingly a solid paint job may increase the value of the car..if it's a classic. Unless it's painted seafoam green or something..

 

Brian

[Aman619]

How about this though? You have a 64 1/2 Mustang with only 5K miles on it, perfect working order but the paint is chipped and faded. What do you do?

 

I do not know the car market...dont understand it (Where do you get a mylar big enough for a 64 Mustang???) But I believe that antique cars are routinely worked on, inside and out!

How many 64 mustangs are still in MIB condition, without even any paint chips??? (are you allowed to change an oil filter?? How about a waxjob? I would assume that ALL collectible-grade 64 Mustangs have had "work".

 

I think you picked a poor analogy. But to follow the cars idea. If Im right that all cars ultimately needwork and the hobby accepts this, we in comics will face this decision once we reach that point where our books are falling apart and restoration will be considered necessary to preserve the copies...not just pretty them up to a pristine state they had long since lost (in order to increase prices) .

[murph0]

Comparing comics to cars is an awful comparison. They're a machine, machines need repair. Noone wants to buy a car that doesn't work.

When I'm looking for a car, I want one with as many original parts as possible and preferably little to no rust or hole filling. So for instance, you're buying a 69 Camaro. What you want to do is make sure it doesn't have the waviness from holes and other flaws being filled, you also look for the engine to be as original as possible. You can buy original parts from other cars to replace yours with. Say you need to replace a part of the engine, for the most part you can find this stuff available through the network of classic car buyers/sellers (it's a very interesting thing, totally different animal, everyone knows everyone else in some way or another). If you ARE painting the car, it's best to paint it in an original color (like red, black, whatever). I've noticed with certain big engine hot rods you can actually get a better price if it's got a solid paint job with racing stripes. Anyways, that's the classic car market in a nutshell..

 

Brian

[PovertyRow]

The real thing? We're talking light to moderate resto, not total reconstruction! You are buying the real thing.

 

Andrew, you have come closest to what I have been thinking. With the exception of one or two who have actually explained to what level they do not want restoration (the way Murph has) no one has even bothered to ask "What kind of restoration? To what extent and what process?" It really seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to the word "restoration.

[Aman619]

POV I dont want ANY restoration, so I didnt ask the question...but he did say that it was a choice between a VG and a comparable priced copy restored into an apparent VF...so we are safe in assuming that underneath it all its still a VG all dolled up for a night of getting likkered up andn going to town looking for sailors!!

[hammer-migration]

We've tried comparing cars before with disasterous results. Here's my take on restoration. It should be avoided at all costs, in each and every endeavor and aspects of our lives:

 

NO cleaning!: No more washing machines, cleaning products, vacuum cleaners, car washes, soap, toiletries, hot and cold running water. A 4 foot thich layer of dust/dirt/grime on everything is most desireable and to be commended, even with dust balls the size of tumbleweed rolling by your TV across the carpet.

 

NO make up: No shaving for that matter, no baths, no showers... Caveman ettiquette.

 

No paper towels, napkins, toilet paper, etc.

 

Everything in this world should be "NATURAL". Undisturbed by human hands and feet, ourselves included. Much of the resultant filth from these new "natural" rules could be harvested than sent to CGC for slabbing to drastically and artificially increase its inherent value!!

[Zonker]

I like the original book in it's off-the-presses completeness. When you start adding or taking away from the book, you are creating a different entity from the book itself sort of a Frankenstein effect if you will. Restoring a book does make it nicer, but IMO it simply isn't the original book anymore. Which is why I'd be willing to pay much more for a non-restored book than I would for a restored book.

 

 

So let's sharpen up this hypothetical case: Say the VG is a VG because of date stamps, a bit of writing on the cover, spine roll and small tears in the cover-- all things that were not present as the book rolled off the presses. Now the apparent VF has professional color touch, sealed tears, and is cleaned & pressed (of course we now know pressing is not restoration, per CGC).

 

Which book is "original?"

 

Z.

 

PS-- I'd buy the restored book-- I have several such books in my Golden Age collection.

[Joanna]

Okay, cave men (ugh, comic and woman are same, grunt! Both object for Grogg to own! Look, me proud of comic, it cost many rocks! Look, me proud of whatsername, she cost many rocks and a spear! me rich to have comic and woman), at least get your analogies correct.

 

Imagine a set of twins (settle down, Darth and Khaos). One is living with all her original parts, but her chest is a little on the small side and she could lose about 15 pounds. She looks very good, though. The second twin has had plastic surgery -- breast implants, eyes, butt, tucks here and there and liposuction -- all performed to make her look very fine.

 

Forget the make-up analogy. It's window-dressing (a fancy mylar or a CGC case). We're talking pieces added, touch-ups, spine stress (those large breasts are going to cause a LOT of spine stress!), etc.

 

Do you want to 'own' the very good-looking twin holding a VG copy of your favorite comic, driving an unrestored, paint-flecked car? Or do you want the reconstructed very fine woman holding a restored VF comic, driving a VF rebuilt car?

 

Now comb the hair on your backs and answer.

 

-- Joanna

 

 

[chromium]

Depends...do I have to pay for the plastic surgery ?

[Joanna]

Depends...do I have to pay for the plastic surgery ?

 

Nope. But she's obviously high maintenance. You'll have to pay for some touch-ups every 7 years or so.