On the same vein-Spiderman 1. More harm or good for the industry?

[otherworldsj33]

I belive that the peroid from about 1990, and I am generalizing here, of course--I think that from about 1990 to about 1994 was one of the worst periods ever for comic book creativity. Sales and stories were art driven (with way too many Liefeld wanna be's, just terrible art), gimmick driven (anybody have a count of all the gimmicks from this period? I bet it is a ridiculous number) , cross-over driven, and the stories suffered horroibly. there were too many books, the market was flooded with some real junk, not enough talent to go around, too many crossovers that made no sense (check out just about any of the hundreds of cross-overs from that peroid to see what I mean), or even less sense then usual. Plots that were sales driven, with no regard to the character, like the Spider-man clone saga, just to name one. Of course there were some good, and even great books, but over all, the percentage of intelligent, entertaining engaging stuff was probably at a all time low. I think Spideman 1 was the book that started this trend, with it's multiple covers, and the focus on the artist. Didn't Mcfarlane even say at one point that either he did not want or need writers, and that many artists would do better without the writers? Or someting like that? I don't remember the exact quote, but the implcation was that writers were not all that important to the creative process of many artists and not needed, they could write their own stories better then any or most of the writers could. I belive that attitude and Image comics also helped usher in the decline in quality stories.

[Timulty]

You should have titled it Marvel, More harm or good for the industry? Seems like everytime the downturn occurs Marvel has done something to make it happen. Don't get me wrong, right now, I am buyin more Marvel comics than I have in the last 15 years(3 ongoing titles). It just seems that Marvel isn't interested in anything else but making money. They just don't seem to want to make great comic books.

[Jayman]

You could be right and although I was buying Spider-Man too, I was really being entertained with my then favorite books: Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Sandman, Shade, The Changing man, Batmam LOTDK, and of course, the Valiant books.

[Timulty]

Sounds like my reading list from that period. Except the Valiants.

[kidcolt]

There are a few good things from that period (even some of the early Valiant stuff is actually great). However I agree that that was a weak time for comics. During that period comics and the sports card industry took huge booms. The companies that produce these tried every marketing trick in the book to sucker in the customers. Variants, overproduction and poor quality were a norm during that time period. I think it was the first itme were Marvel and DC realized noticed that they could run Batman, Spiderman, Wolverine, Superman through every title and it would increase sales. Marvel also were riding the coat tales of Venom and the Punisher, making us all sick of them real fast.

 

I never was a fan of Liefield or Mcfarlene. I never liked their art style. I was more of a fan of the old style Kirby and Romita work. Now I really only enjoy Romita jr, Ross, some Tim Sale and the Kubert family.

[awe4one]

I blame Ghost Rider #1 V2...

 

This confirmed fanboys had indeed turned into speculators, hinted at with Wolverine #1, Punisher #1 and War Journal #1, and were willing to buy multiple copies of #1 issues in large quantities...

 

There wasn't a seminal event that started the craziness and it took a number of years...but GR #1 got the ball rolling...

 

Jim

[Timulty]

For me, Death of Superman at DC was the point that I felt DC was starting to get on the variant bandwagon. I really hated that one.

[Point Five]

I think Spideman 1 was the book that started this trend, with it's multiple covers, and the focus on the artist.

 

I agree with you entirely. Bought it at my LCS when it came out in 1990, and that issue is exactly where Marvel and I parted ways. That was the last new Marvel book I ever bought.

[whetteon]

Playing the Devil's Advocate, 'jazzing' up covers with alternative color editions, bagged editions, silver stamped artwork, ect; was the exact reason why so many new and younger collectors entered the market in the late 80's and early 90's. Sure it was gimmicky but if you notice, younger kids love gimmick things. Look at Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon. Both franchises have multiple 'booster' type products and alternative type merchandise and kids eat that type of stuff up. They become interested in the medium. A good story keeps us adults interested but a hologram Spider-Man in a gold costume is what grabs the younger kids attention.

 

I’ve read numerous post by board members who’ve clearly stated that they have fond memories of some comic book but when they go back to read it, they realize it’s a bad story. You have to realize that when they were hyper-active kids, those disjointed panels and loose storyline is exactly why they thought it was so great a book at age 10 and sucked at age 25.

[otherworldsj33]

Hi Whet. Thats a good point. It is about fun and entertainment. But it seems we had a good reason to EXPECT more from comics in the 90's, regarding the level of sophistication and readability then we did from the 60's. The 60's were different times. The editors of the 60's belived that their readers were mostly 10 year old kids, mostly males. Along came Stan Lee's Marvel comics stories that changed the perception and raised the bar. Then, without going into all of the great books from the 70s and 80's, but to name a few and some of the best, we had Thomas and Smith's Conan, O'Neil and Adamas Batman and Green Lantern, Wein and Wrightson's Swamp Thing, Baron and Rude's Nexus, Millers Daredevil, Claremonts and Byrne;s X-Men, Hernandez Brothers Love and Rockets, Wagner's Grendel, Moore and Gibbon's Watchman, Miller's Dark Knight. In comics and most popular culture, most of what of produced is routine, and not really all that interesting. But it just seems to me, that overall, and I am not including all early 90's comics, but overall it seems to me like commericalism and the grab for money just went rampant wild, and that lowered the overall quality of the stories. Bone was a great series from the early to mid 90's. So was and still is Strangers in Paradise. Of course Maus and Sandman are absolute classics fromt that period. But I just think the percentage of better material dropped to a very low number, lower, probably by far, then it even usually is. I don't have a problem with anyone making money. I like money myself. And I don't blame them for trying to go after it. But there has to be some vision and planning when running a business.The people who ran these companies have good business knowledge, are educated and I am sure are aware of business history, such as boom and bust.I don't see how they couln't see the predictable results of all this. The bust came, and it was a sustained doozy, lasting into early the next decade. I don't know, but I would not be at all surprised if, financially, the comic companies gave back a huge portion of what they earned in the early 90's. All the comic companies did at that time, business wise, was mortgage the present for the future. The kicker is, why are comics exciting and intresting (and selling relatively well) again? Mainly because of the great plots well written stories

[otherworldcomics]

Hey otherworlds, I can see where you are coming from. But you have to realize that during the 90's you had a lot of business people taking over the comic companies and were there to just bleed the business dry before dumping the company. Were they mortgaging the future? Oh heck yeah, because they didn't have any long term plan to stay in the business. Their idea of long term was five years. Buy low, sell high. That's about it. Just look at the Ron Perleman fiasco with Marvel. He didn't give a fig about Spider-man's character development. He was just looking to make some bucks. And he ended up running the company into the ground.

 

Personally, I think the 90's were a great time for comics because we had an explosion of titles. You had a lot more variety to choose from than ever before. Yeah, there was a whole lot of garbage coming out but there were some great books as well. You had more comic book material hitting the mainstream media than ever before. Cartoons, tv shows, video games, huge amount of action figures and other merchandise. You never had that prior to 1990, at least not where I live. Then you finally had comic book stores opening everywhere. No longer did you have to search convenience store spinner racks for books. You could go to a store and get every title you wanted! Yeah, there was a boom and a bust...that's economics and that happens with everything. But look at the results. Those that were there just for the money have moved on. Marvel and the rest have dropped the majority of their [embarrassing lack of self control] titles to focus in on the better ones. I mean, at one point Marvel was publishing nearly 60 to 70 titles a month in the 90's. Could things be better? Yeah, of course they could. But what we have now, the good and the bad, we owe to Spider-man #1.

[mister_not_so_nice]

Been waiting for a good time to post this.

[mister_not_so_nice]

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[awe4one]

Great cartoon...Thanks!

 

Some collectors still have a hard time grasping the "supply/demand" concept as it relates to comics...

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

Some collectors still have a hard time grasping the "supply/demand" concept as it relates to comics...

 

I call it "Gold Fever" and when it hits, nothing you say or do can dissuade them from their chosen speculative path.

 

That part in the cartoon about the kid cheering when the print runs are announced is so true, and I can remember people reacting the same way at the LCS. When I calmly asked "so who exactly is going to buy these back from you?", I got blank stares in return.

 

I am so glad I am not a lemming.

[Psiknight]

That cartoon reminds me...I need the 2006 copy of the Overpriced Street Guide.