Show me this S.A Crash............

[awe4one]

NO ONE has the right to judge anyone else by their collecting habits.....that goes for speculators too. I'm NOT a speculator, I'm a collector who likes to make profit to further my collection. But even Specuators have a right to buy without objectives beig questioned.

 

Maybe we need to back up here a minute because the purpose of my original post is getting lost...I had a problem with the following statement you made in a previous post.

 

If anything, this forum should be more about the CGC market than anywhere else, so I find it ironic that people come here and constantly repeat that comics should be READ.

 

I disagree. This is the SA forum not the Market forum. This is the place to talk about all aspects of collecting SA material not just the CGC market. That includes reading the comics. If someone here think that silly money is being paid for this or that comic then they are entitled to their opinion. And you'll notice if you look back I wasn't the one that made the comment you have a problem with but I respect the right of others to have and express it.

 

That's why I suggested you get Arch to create a high grade only forum....then you'd have more validity to complain.

 

And then you followed with this.....

 

But I suggest to anyone who is tired of hearing about slabs and money, that they not post on the CGC FORUM. It's a novel idea, and it just might work.

 

Well that's mighty big of you. Don't express your opinion. And if you don't like it leave. And when did CGC suddenly equal money?

 

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but was that a knock to my age? If so, I've read quite a lot of books from the S.A to the current, so that means nothing.

 

I could not care less how old you are. The comment was made that some may want to talk about SA comics separate from just the market that you seem to want to dominate this forum.

 

Again, where the hell did I even mention mid-grade CGC collectors? I was referring to high grade only because that's where CGC has had the most impact. And I was talking about high grade CGC vs. reading and said nothing about mid-grade collectors.

 

Not sure why you're focusing on mid-grade collectors. I never mentioned it in my post. I'm talking about all collectors to include high grade.

 

You're talking like I have nothing to say about anything except high grade collecting, which is not true. I participate in threads about a variety of material. My whole point is I have no problem with anyone's collecting style, and I don't criticize anyone for how they collect. Yet, I and other collectors like me get criticized back-handedly for not being "real" collectors.

 

Oh please...cry me a river. Modern CGC sellers on this forum catch far more flack than the high end crowd. Including digs from the that crowd on occasion. They tend to buck up and go with the flow. Not moan about it.

 

I DO apreciate and respect all aspects of the hobby, so don't assume to have me figured out based on one post. I do post on a variety of topics, so don't presume to tell me I'm not capable of talking about anything else. I've made no presumptions about you personally, because I haven't had a lot of discussion with you, so don't get personal with me, at least until you go back and read all 1800+ of my posts.

 

I never got personal with you. And if that's what you think, you're wrong and your problem. I was pointing out what's I think is a single-minded view and expandng on why "I" think it's faulty. You (and other extreme high end collectors) are a relatively small segment on these forums. Just because you are willing to drop significant wads of cash on individual comics should not excuse you from getting opinions from the majority or filter out the negative.

 

That's not what a public forum is all about. Deal with it.

 

 

Jim

[notch_top]

Hey Matt, while you're still here..do you have a scan of the ASM 69 9.6? It never showed up on the auction and I'd like to see what it looks like. Also, I'm in the process of getting you a scan of the back of the ASm 35.

 

Brian

 

Thus why it did so poorly......Only one of my auctions that did way below my anticipation.

 

I'll pick it up this week from the bank and get you a scan my friend.

 

I have listed it once prior (with pic) and it eclipsed $800 in bids....

 

 

[LordRahl]

I disagree. This is the SA forum not the Market forum. This is the place to talk about all aspects of collecting SA material not just the CGC market. That includes reading the comics. If someone here think that silly money is being paid for this or that comic then they are entitled to their opinion. And you'll notice if you look back I wasn't the one that made the comment you have a problem with but I respect the right of others to have and express it.

 

I think you're missing Andrews' point. There are a few people here that criticize other forum members for paying silly money for high grade books and seem to be of the opinion that books should be read and slabbed 9.6s and 9.8s are an ego thing because noone is going to break out their FF 5 CGC 9.6 to read it. Everyone is allowed to their opinion but it's one thing to have an opinion on the CGC market and a whole different thing to tell people that they are somehow wrong to collect ultra high grade books. I think AK has a problem with people putting down his and others' choice of collecting goals. It is rather annoying to have someone tell you that the way you choose to collect and what you choose to collect is wrong.

[COI]

never got personal with you. And if that's what you think, you're wrong and your problem. I was pointing out what's I think is a single-minded view and expandng on why "I" think it's faulty. You (and other extreme high end collectors) are a relatively small segment on these forums. Just because you are willing to drop significant wads of cash on individual comics should not excuse you from getting opinions from the majority or filter out the negative.

 

An "opinion" is fine. I've had many collectors tell me that collecting ultra high grade is something they wouldn't do, and have given me their reasons for it. That's fine. I personally don't care how someone chooses to collect. But telling me I'm not a "real" collector because comics are meant to be read is not an opinion, it's a judgement, and a stupid one because I read as well. That was my whole point, that no one should judge anyone else. In THAT context people shouldn't post here if they can't deal with that. That's my point, so stop taking a few lines you didn't like, and escalating this into the stupid, repetitive debate it's turning into. That's all I have to say, which is what I already said in one way or another 16 times on this thread. If you feel you need to get the last word in, go ahead. I've said what I wanted to say.

[clobberintime]

Yeah Joe, looks like Notch has singlehandedly ended the crash. He was able to bring in buyers that are apparently fairly new to buying expensive comics too looking at some of those buyers' feedback profiles- so who says there's no new blood in the market? It's almost like the prices from movie time!

[joe_collector]

But I suggest to anyone who is tired of hearing about slabs and money, that they not post on the CGC FORUM. It's a novel idea, and it just might work.

 

Well that's mighty big of you. Don't express your opinion. And if you don't like it leave.

 

Now that's a pretty bizarre comment. I used to post on the Wizard forums, but I never once talked about Wizard; it's a wonder they let me stay a member!!

[murph0]

heh, they probably let you stay cause you were one of the 10 people out there who actually posted on the thing

 

Brian

[sfilosa]

Nice job on the auctions (Top_Notch):

 

I hate to point out thing he did well, but they might benefit other forum sellers:

 

1) Start with a low price and use a reserve. Get's everyone involved instead of just putting the book on a watch list.

 

2) Ending late on a Saturday night.

 

and last and probably the smartest thing he did

 

3) Making it sound like every book was "Strictly" graded and therefore had a chance to get a higher grade as a resubmit. If the books a VF/NM and goes for around 100-120% of the NM price, and on a resubmit, the book and get a NM-, the book now will get 150-180% of NM, so you can make a 50% profit just by getting a one notch higher grade.

 

So the point is: Even if you think a book is ACCURATELY GRADED, give the impression that on a resubmit it might go higher.

 

 

 

 

[COI]

So the point is: Even if you think a book is ACCURATELY GRADED, give the impression that on a resubmit it might go higher.

 

 

Even when selling slabs, I don't think you should make the book out to be better than it is. The same rules should apply to selling raw, as they do to selling CGC's.

 

I think the main reasons the books did well was because:

 

A: They were mostly books you don't see every week.

 

B: He listed a cluster of high quality stuff at the same time. Doing that usually results in more exposure, which equals more bidding.

 

I think it's the same reason Showcase-New-England does so well on their books: Having a large quantity of quality at once, increases the overall heat around your auctions.

[murph0]

However, that CAN backfire on you if you ever decide to sell a raw book. If you post a CGC 9.4 whatever and say "well it easily looks like a 9.6" but in reality you think it's a way overgraded 9.0, that person is certainly going to second guess any raw grading you're going to be doing and I'm sure he'd be more than willing to tell his comic collecting friends

 

Brian

[notch_top]

and last and probably the smartest thing he did

 

3) Making it sound like every book was "Strictly" graded and therefore had a chance to get a higher grade as a resubmit. If the books a VF/NM and goes for around 100-120% of the NM price, and on a resubmit, the book and get a NM-, the book now will get 150-180% of NM, so you can make a 50% profit just by getting a one notch higher grade.

 

So the point is: Even if you think a book is ACCURATELY GRADED, give the impression that on a resubmit it might go higher.

 

 

 

 

I think the best success in selling is through offering a good assortment of really nice high grade , hard to find books in one run. (duh? right)It stimulates a lot of interest on and off Ebay.

 

I do not misrepresent my CGC graded books, BUT I do "Grade through the slab." Being that I am one of the more vocal guys about resubmissions and that I have received MANY books back at higher grades I feel confident about being able to see when a book is misgraded as MANY of you very good graders can and do.

 

On those particular books I will denote that in my auction description, others are strictly graded by CGC.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

 

 

 

 

[Mushroom]

I think the best success in selling is through offering a good assortment of really nice high grade , hard to find books in one run. (duh? right)It stimulates a lot of interest on and off Ebay.

 

I do not misrepresent my CGC graded books, BUT I do "Grade through the slab." Being that I am one of the more vocal guys about resubmissions and that I have received MANY books back at higher grades I feel confident about being able to see when a book is misgraded as MANY of you very good graders can and do.

 

On those particular books I will denote that in my auction description, others are strictly graded by CGC.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

Everybody on this forum says "BUY THE BOOK......NOT THE LABEL". Notch_Top gets excitement for his books because he sells the book. Lauterbach does this as well. I have a few of his slabs that he was tossing up as to whether or not he should resubmit.

 

Having faith in the seller is an important part of the process. People not only believe Matt they can clearly see it in his scans. His descriptions make you want to look.

 

One comment though Matt. With all those high quality books bidders tend to focus on the real keys and earmark their money for those. I reckon I got a steal on that 9.6 #59.

[notch_top]

 

One comment though Matt. With all those high quality books bidders tend to focus on the real keys and earmark their money for those. I reckon I got a steal on that 9.6 #59.

 

Well John these ASM bidders need to get their acts together and realize that 59 is a minor key, what with MJ and her GO GO dancing on her first cover appearance

 

I sold that book right at reserve and I am glad you picked it up, I think lack of bidding comes from the Cream-Ow pages. Many collectors are fixated on page quality, I guess they do not really understand how CGC comes to their PQ conclusion. Or have not submitted a lot of their own books to put together an understanding of what an interior of a C-OW paged book looks like from the outside of a holder that they can't see the pages anyway

 

Bottomline...You got a steal, and I am happy it was an appreciative collector/forum member.

 

And as far as "BUYING THE BOOK NOT THE LABEL" that is a perspective that I think most of us share right?? At least I hope so...

 

I offer a full return policy on all of my books even those that are CGC graded as well, so you really are buying the book and not the label at least from me, most dealers/sellers do not offer this as an option.

 

 

M

 

 

[Mushroom]

You know you're in the midst of crash when Notch_Top's past auctions had 5 copies that achieved higher prices than I've ever seen on eBay. Respectively 31, 33, 34, 39, and 42. Not to mention 17 and 28 both achieved higher final bids that the last few copies to show up. Congratulations to Matt, he put up some great books and got great prices for them. Notch_Top's Finished Auctions

 

Brian

 

Just dropped a note to Comgeek about the ASM #39. He sold me a 9.4 in March for what I thought was at the absolute high end of the market. Let me just say that what Notch_Top got for his #39 is a nice little premium over what I paid.

 

I agree with you Murph.....Crash my arse. People will pay top dollars for key books in high grade.

[Kevin76]

Lauterbach does this as well. I have a few of his slabs that he was tossing up as to whether or not he should resubmit.

 

I don't know about that Mushroom,Steve told me one time that he sent in a book hoping to get a 9.6 and instead it came back a 9.0.... I can't understand why people take this "resubmit gamble" hundreds even thousands of dollars are at stake here,if it comes back even a half grade lower.You won't see me resbmitting 10K books or even $500 books.Resubmitting takes some serouis balls,i must say.My balls don't clang.But people who take that risk must do. Kevin

[Mushroom]

Lauterbach does this as well. I have a few of his slabs that he was tossing up as to whether or not he should resubmit.

 

I don't know about that Mushroom,Steve told me one time that he sent in a book hoping to get a 9.6 and instead it came back a 9.0.... I can't understand why people take this "resubmit gamble" hundreds even thousands of dollars are at stake here,if it comes back even a half grade lower.You won't see me resbmitting 10K books or even $500 books.Resubmitting takes some serouis balls,i must say.My balls don't clang.But people who take that risk must do. Kevin

 

Law of averages. I would suggest that his success rate would be far in excess of 50% plus we should also remember that these guys have bought most of these books raw and therefore the odds are stacked in their favour and we are only debating levels of profit. Mind you I don't disagree with your point about having balls because if the one you are wrong on is an ASM #1 well then put your head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye.

[Kevin76]

Lauterbach does this as well. I have a few of his slabs that he was tossing up as to whether or not he should resubmit.

 

I don't know about that Mushroom,Steve told me one time that he sent in a book hoping to get a 9.6 and instead it came back a 9.0.... I can't understand why people take this "resubmit gamble" hundreds even thousands of dollars are at stake here,if it comes back even a half grade lower.You won't see me resbmitting 10K books or even $500 books.Resubmitting takes some serouis balls,i must say.My balls don't clang.But people who take that risk must do. Kevin

 

Law of averages. I would suggest that his success rate would be far in excess of 50% plus we should also remember that these guys have bought most of these books raw and therefore the odds are stacked in their favour and we are only debating levels of profit. Mind you I don't disagree with your point about having balls because if the one you are wrong on is an ASM #1 well then put your head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye.

 

 

Excatly!!! Why put yourself in that situation,most people who get CGC books say "oh this is under graded,let me resubmit it" There is alot of defects that you can't see through the holder,just because it has a nice tight spine, sharp corners and no rips or creases,doesn't make it a 9.6 all of a sudden,You cannot see surface wear through the holder or a crappy staple when you open it,or even surface wear on the back.Lot of hiiden defect that can't be seen through the case,I'm not saying that you can't get a higher grade through a resubmit,I myself could not afford to lose all kinds of cash if i resubmitted a AF 9.4 cause i think it's a 9.6 or even a GL #76 cause i think my 9.6 is a 9.8.People complain "how can this get a 9.4? Look at that corner!! most people never think that is what kept it from being a 9.6,just think CGC is not consistant. just the why i see it. kevin

[FlyingDonut]

You know you're in the midst of crash when Notch_Top's past auctions had 5 copies that achieved higher prices than I've ever seen on eBay. Respectively 31, 33, 34, 39, and 42. Not to mention 17 and 28 both achieved higher final bids that the last few copies to show up. Congratulations to Matt, he put up some great books and got great prices for them. Notch_Top's Finished Auctions

 

Brian

 

Just dropped a note to Comgeek about the ASM #39. He sold me a 9.4 in March for what I thought was at the absolute high end of the market. Let me just say that what Notch_Top got for his #39 is a nice little premium over what I paid.

 

I agree with you Murph.....Crash my arse. People will pay top dollars for key books in high grade .

 

EXACTLY. KEY books have not crashed. ASM 39 is, I'm sure we all would agree, a KEY. Same with 17, 28, 31, 33, 34 and 42 (well, maybe not 34).

 

But OTHER books have crashed in price. I really don't understand why people keep using keys as the example. Ordinary, everyday, run of the mill books in 9.6 or less have seen a significant reduction in the prices that were paid for them in the past 15 months. Not relative to GUIDE, but relative to what was paid for them. ASM 117 9.6. Sold in May 2002 for $230, I sold another one in November 2002 for $117. Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Note that I was happy with the $117 sale, given as thats 4X guide. But I'll bet you the guy who paid 8X guide for his isn't too pleased.

[dam60]

EXACTLY. KEY books have not crashed. ASM 39 is, I'm sure we all would agree, a KEY. Same with 17, 28, 31, 33, 34 and 42 (well, maybe not 34).

 

Okay, I'm a bit new to this Spidey SA thing, so help me out and please excuse my ignorance:

ASM 17 2nd Goblin?

ASM 28 Molten Man?

ASM 31 1st Gwen

ASM 33 Famous Cover

ASM 34 Kraven?

ASM 42 1st Rhino

 

Excluding 34 why are these such hot books? To me at least all these books would seem to be minor keys in the grand scheme of things.

 

For instance, ASM 17 as the 2nd Goblin - wouldn't ASM 14 the first Goblin be the key? Is 17 undervalued relative to 14? 28 with the pitch black cover seems to be hot amongst those looking for that ASM in uber HG run, but as a key? Molten Man? ASM 31 1st Gwen - again, I would put that in a minor key at best (unless Spidey collectors really dig her?), ASM 33 IMHO, is the cheesiest book that I have ever read (I picked up the ASM essentials v1 and 2), but even so it seems to be a great book for Cover collectors. ASM 39 is an old friend and the only SA spidey that I own - my all time favorite Spidey cover. ASM 42 with the 1st Rhino doesn't seem like a "key" because Rhino isn't all that mainstream.

 

I definitely agree with the fact that key books are still enjoying a very strong and robust market in HG and this makes sense to me. I guess I didn't realize

(1) how many keys ASM has

(2) how popular Spidey is to see the prices realized on these auctions (but again I plea ignorance as I have never followed the market).

 

Congrats to Matt on some nice sales!

 

DAM

[sfilosa]

Two quick points:

 

1) I for one, do have a tendency to bid slightly higher when I believe a CGCbook was graded "Strictly". If the seller is "kind enough" to tell me that, it makes me look at the scan a little more (or to ask for a bigger scan).

 

2) Regarding a "Crash", if you want to know when the last time the Comic Market Boomed, it was the early 1990's. It also happened to be when the economy and stock market was in a slump. Well guess what, the past three years the economy and stock market has been in a slump. BUT, IT SEEMS THAT THE STOCK MARKET IS WAKING UP.

 

If investors start to see 10-20% annual returns in the stock market, it will be tougher for them to "invest" in comics. Not saying there will be a mass exodus, but I know, I will start putting more money in my retirement accounts (I have cut back significantly the last year) and less new money into comics. I doubt that I will be the only one.

 

Just my thoughts.