Bad Experiences with OA

[Reno McCoy]

I just PMed Hart and mentioned a bad experience I had with a previous artist I contacted to do a commission. That got me thinking, and I'd like to hear from others who might've had some problems with original art, either selling or buying, from a fan or from the artist. Now, I don't want to get into a complaining session, so I'd rather have this be more informative so others can avoid similar problems (so if you have solutions, include those too).

 

 

Anyway, my one problem came when I contacted an artist one Friday. I simply said I was interested in him doing a commission of Dejah Thoris. He said he wasn't familiar with the charater, so I sent a synopsis and some images. Well, I was gone all weekend. When I got back, I emailed him and he said he had already completed the piece even though I hadn't offered any suggestions on what I wanted. Despite being uncomfortable about the deal, I felt completely obligated to send the $100 he charged because, even though I hadn't given details, he did the piece for me.

 

I'm not sure where I slipped up, but in the future, I'll be specific and say that we don't have a deal and not to start until both parties agree we're ready and have agreed on all the details.

[Spider-Variant]

I could completely see that happening. I've never had a commission done, but will definitely remember your situation if I ever do.

 

It's refreshing for a thread to highlight the "Lessons Learned" aspect instead of the "Let's Complain A Lot" saga.

 

Just curious if you enjoyed the commission you did receive? Was it worth the $100?

[Reno McCoy]

Ummm, when I look at the piece without the baggage from the experience, I do enjoy it. It's not my favorite, but yeah, I like it.

 

Another lesson learned: Don't have artists who don't know the character draw that character. The three pieces I have from artists who loved Edgar Rice Burroughs as a kid drew me spectacular pieces. The two who didn't know ERB, not as much.

[Hart1000]

James, I make sure to state in my first contact with the artist what I'm looking for.

 

I email them the following:

 

1. Character(s): One or Multiple

2. Theme or Idea

3. Media: Pencils, Inks, Color

4. Size

5. Background: Minimal, None, Full

 

This way the artist can give me a quote rather than say.."Sure I'll do you a commission of [insert character here]."

 

You will note that I don't give exact layout to the artist...imo you don't want to stiffle their creativity. Although, there have been times that I have requested exact layouts, but only after I had done a couple commissions with him/her and felt comfortable with them (vise versa for them).

 

One last thing...with some comic book characters (if not all) they tend to have new costumes every year or so. Make sure you tell the artist the specific costume version you want...and yes do send a picture reference with that request. (I've had this happen to me a couple times).

 

Hope this helps.

Hart

[Reno McCoy]

James, I make sure to state in my first contact with the artist what I'm looking for.

 

I email them the following:

 

1. Character(s): One or Multiple

2. Theme or Idea

3. Media: Pencils, Inks, Color

4. Size

5. Background: Minimal, None, Full

 

This way the artist can give me a quote rather than say.."Sure I'll do you a commission of [insert character here]."

 

You will note that I don't give exact layout to the artist...imo you don't want to stiffle their creativity. Although, there have been times that I have requested exact layouts, but only after I had done a couple commissions with him/her and felt comfortable with them (vise versa for them).

 

One last thing...with some comic book characters (if not all) they tend to have new costumes every year or so. Make sure you tell the artist the specific costume version you want...and yes do send a picture reference with that request. (I've had this happen to me a couple times).

 

Hope this helps.

Hart

 

Thanks, Hart. I agree. One of the things I do always do is say, "Hey, I'm asking you to do the commission. Draw whatever strikes you at the moment." I hadn't considered the other stuff though, like asking for multiple characters, or lots of background. Good tips!

[Jayman]

James, I make sure to state in my first contact with the artist what I'm looking for.

 

I email them the following:

 

1. Character(s): One or Multiple

2. Theme or Idea

3. Media: Pencils, Inks, Color

4. Size

5. Background: Minimal, None, Full

 

This way the artist can give me a quote rather than say.."Sure I'll do you a commission of [insert character here]."

 

You will note that I don't give exact layout to the artist...imo you don't want to stiffle their creativity. Although, there have been times that I have requested exact layouts, but only after I had done a couple commissions with him/her and felt comfortable with them (vise versa for them).

 

One last thing...with some comic book characters (if not all) they tend to have new costumes every year or so. Make sure you tell the artist the specific costume version you want...and yes do send a picture reference with that request. (I've had this happen to me a couple times).

 

Hope this helps.

Hart

 

I have never requested a commision yet, but I just copied this as a memo of how to proceed.

Great advice, thanks for posting!

[Timulty]

Those little blue guys are just too smug. The weather is lousy and it has a green glow all around. A guy can't sleep on a planet like that!!!!

[Hart1000]

I have never requested a commision yet, but I just copied this as a memo of how to proceed. Great advice, thanks for posting!

 

Hmmmm...Maybe i should start a Commissions 101 Class, Eh!

 

"Good Morning class my name is Professor Hart...and I'm going to show you how to hog-tie a comic book artist in 30 seconds."

 

If anyone else has some good ideas...please chime in.

 

-Hart

[RaccoonRaccoon]

Never had a commission piece done, although I am thinking about one. I just wanted to say that I am enjoying this thread. Thanks to all the posters!

[Jayman]

I have never requested a commision yet, but I just copied this as a memo of how to proceed. Great advice, thanks for posting!

 

Hmmmm...Maybe i should start a Commissions 101 Class, Eh!

 

"Good Morning class my name is Professor Hart...and I'm going to show you how to hog-tie a comic book artist in 30 seconds."

 

If anyone else has some good ideas...please chime in.

 

-Hart

 

Well now that's really not a bad idea!

I just recently started collecting OA (with my first purchase last year) and was initially intimidated with the price of some of the pieces available. I also wondered about negotiating a price, whether finished OA or a commission. My guess is that others on the board might feel the same and would appreciate some helpful pointers. I know I would!

[matewan1990]

In the beginning, I used to let the artist decide what he wanted to draw. Nowadays, I suggest an idea and, if he likes it, he draws it that way. But, I always tell them that they are the artists and to make the determination what looks good and what doesn't. I try to give them at least a little freedom in the process.

However, lately, I've given specific directions as to what I want. Usually, when I have an idea, it turns out pretty good. Take a look at my Luke McDonnell commissions, my Ernie Chan Jonah Hex commissions and my Dan Parent Jonah Hex vs Archie commission to see what I'm talking about.

My gallery is located at:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=3650

In my gallery, there are pieces of art from numerous artists.

Luke McDonnell is one of the best artists in comics and his commissions are reasonbly priced and he's quick. I've got his email if anyone ever wants a commission from Luke.

Dan Parent is awesome. I can't say enough about him.

His web site is: www.danparent.com.

Ernie Chan is really quick! I asked his rep, Steve Morger, to see if Ernie would do a second Jonah Hex piece for me and Ernie did the entire drawing in less than three hours and had it ready for me when I sent the money order. It arrived only a few days later and is one of my favorite commissions. Contact him through www.bigwowart.com. Morger's one of the best reps in the business.

My commission experience hasn't all been good, though.

One artist I gave just a basic idea to and said I wanted a Swamp Thing and Abby painting. He gives me a really crappy Swamp Thing standing behind a completely naked Abby (with ball-point pen scribbles for crotch hair) that I could not put on display. So, I ended up trading it off and I won't deal with the artist again. Also, the same artist took my idea for a commission (that never materialized) and made it into a painting and made a bundle off of it. He said he'd never thought of that and that it was a great idea. So, before I could even get back in touch with him to see if he'd do that one for me, he churned out a painting of my idea (exactly as I said I wanted it) and put it on eBay.

Another artist that I've paid for a commission has been putting me off for a while now and keeps telling me he's working on it ... he's working on it ... he's working on it ... He has told me on two different occasions that the art will be ready by the weekend. And it's been weeks and weeks since he told me that the last time...

I won't be dealing with him anytime soon, either...

[mister_not_so_nice]

Another artist that I've paid for a commission has been putting me off for a while now and keeps telling me he's working on it ... he's working on it ... he's working on it ... He has told me on two different occasions that the art will be ready by the weekend. And it's been weeks and weeks since he told me that the last time...

I won't be dealing with him anytime soon, either...

 

I've been waiting on my FABRY painting, which "will be done by the end of the month, I promise" for 3+ years now

[Hart1000]

Well now that's really not a bad idea!

I just recently started collecting OA (with my first purchase last year) and was initially intimidated with the price of some of the pieces available. I also wondered about negotiating a price, whether finished OA or a commission. My guess is that others on the board might feel the same and would appreciate some helpful pointers. I know I would!

 

Imo...commissions and comic art pages are two different animals...

 

For OA...some dealers and artists do let you negotiate the price of OA if you pick up more than one page (or the whole book). Or if it's a high priced item you may get a small discount or free shipping from dealers.

 

As for commissions....they are usually set at a fixed price. Based on the amount of time the artist has to invest to complete your "special order". I don't see much negotiating room in this area, due to the fact that you want to be fair to the artist. And not wittle them down in price so you can get yourself a deal....remember if the artist doesn't think he's being treated fairly, then it'll show in the commission. But if the artist comes to you with a cuckoo cost...then run...don't walk away!

 

For example...In the past I've come across artists that told me that doing one character pieces wouldn't be worth their time, but if I got 10 one character pieces then they would do 'em for me...needless to say I passed on that artist for a commission.

 

The biggest recommendation I have for you all is... if you are planning to get a commission, first...find another collector (try www.comicartfans.com ) that has received a commissions by the artist and ask them of their experience with said artist. After all the feedback, make your decision to go ahead with the commission.

 

Good luck all!

-Hart "Professor Mud"

[matewan1990]

Well now that's really not a bad idea!

I just recently started collecting OA (with my first purchase last year) and was initially intimidated with the price of some of the pieces available. I also wondered about negotiating a price, whether finished OA or a commission. My guess is that others on the board might feel the same and would appreciate some helpful pointers. I know I would!

 

Imo...commissions and comic art pages are two different animals...

 

For OA...some dealers and artists do let you negotiate the price of OA if you pick up more than one page (or the whole book). Or if it's a high priced item you may get a small discount or free shipping from dealers.

 

As for commissions....they are usually set at a fixed price. Based on the amount of time the artist has to invest to complete your "special order". I don't see much negotiating room in this area, due to the fact that you want to be fair to the artist. And not wittle them down in price so you can get yourself a deal....remember if the artist doesn't think he's being treated fairly, then it'll show in the commission. But if the artist comes to you with a cuckoo cost...then run...don't walk away!

 

For example...In the past I've come across artists that told me that doing one character pieces wouldn't be worth their time, but if I got 10 one character pieces then they would do 'em for me...needless to say I passed on that artist for a commission.

 

The biggest recommendation I have for you all is... if you are planning to get a commission, first...find another collector (try www.comicartfans.com ) that has received a commissions by the artist and ask them of their experience with said artist. After all the feedback, make your decision to go ahead with the commission.

 

Good luck all!

-Hart "Professor Mud"

 

I asked an inker last year for a commission of a character he worked on briefly in the 1980s. One cahracter pencil drawing was all I wanted. He said that he was now working in animation and that drawing a commission would be fun. So, he said he'd do one for $1800.

WHAT? $1800? Yes. $1800.

I was shocked.

Now, I could buy a whole cover that was inked by him for $800 and that was a high price. Or, I could buy pages that were inked by him for around $35-$75 each.

I asked him again.

$1800, again.

He even offered to trade me a commission for a published cover. Huh? I mean, this guy hadn't been in demand since the 1980s. I merely wanted a simple drawing.

$1800.

Okay, I had to pass on that one.

So, a year later, he emails me to tell me he'd do one now for $150.

Yeah, well I've spent all my available cash on other commissions and don't have the $150. So, he's emailed me three times wanting to do the commission for $150.

Nope, sorry, no can do.

I've still got that $1800 price tag stuck in my craw and I ain't doing business with him.

Another 1980s artist I contacted recently hasn't worked in comics since the mid-1990s. I talked with him awhile and he was impressed that I knew so much about his work. So, he offered to do a commission for me for $70. I immediately got a money order and sent it to him.

Now, after he's cashed it, he isn't sure if he wants to do it or not.

How many times have I heard from him in the past couple of weeks? Once to tell me he'll give me a refund if I want one. Have I heard back from him since I asked him for the refund? Nope.

One artist told me he'd do a headshot for $300 and would do two full figures for $600. Pencils. Nah, not doing that one, either.

Oh well...

[comicartfan]

You know, I have had a few commissions done and I must tell you from experiance that there are many factors that go into a commission. It sometimes doesn't turn out what a collector expected.....This can be either good or bad.

 

I have learned aside from the usual time restrictions and other collectors ahead of me, there are things that I wasn't "in tune" with that I should share.

 

First, if you are going to want a specific scene in mind, be upfront about it right away. Either the artist will pass or they will accept. This should be in the first email you send to the artist or rep.

 

Second, be vague. I know this is not a popular answer, but I find that I usually give an artist a rough outline of what I would like, then I want that particular artist's style and imagination to come through. I tell the artist the character(s) I want, then I let them do their thing. I am having a Death of Gwen Stacey piece done and I told the artist to do his own take on it. I gave a rough idea, then it's all him.

This serves two purposes. The main one is, I want the artist to have fun...thus they will be compelled to do the piece in the first place.

I am not creative myself, so if someone does a piece for me, it usually is more than I would have come up with myself.

 

I also try and give the artist as much time allowances as I can. If I am told 4 weeks, then I know that in reality, it's more like 6-8. And that is fine. It's when it turns into 6 months that I start to get a little impatient. If I am told 6 months, that's fine...As long as the artist is in contact with me and I know they haven't forgotten about it. (or me) -

 

Lastly, don't be unrealistic. I think sometimes we hire these guys to do a piece and we start to put magicial powers on the finished product. I am going a little overboard here, but seriously , we think somehow this work will be an opus.....most of the time, it's a really nice piece that we would be proud to have drawn ourselves...But it's not mind-blowing.......There are execeptions, as with anything.

[matewan1990]

You know, I have had a few commissions done and I must tell you from experiance that there are many factors that go into a commission. It sometimes doesn't turn out what a collector expected.....This can be either good or bad.

 

I have learned aside from the usual time restrictions and other collectors ahead of me, there are things that I wasn't "in tune" with that I should share.

 

First, if you are going to want a specific scene in mind, be upfront about it right away. Either the artist will pass or they will accept. This should be in the first email you send to the artist or rep.

 

Second, be vague. I know this is not a popular answer, but I find that I usually give an artist a rough outline of what I would like, then I want that particular artist's style and imagination to come through. I tell the artist the character(s) I want, then I let them do their thing. I am having a Death of Gwen Stacey piece done and I told the artist to do his own take on it. I gave a rough idea, then it's all him.

This serves two purposes. The main one is, I want the artist to have fun...thus they will be compelled to do the piece in the first place.

I am not creative myself, so if someone does a piece for me, it usually is more than I would have come up with myself.

 

I also try and give the artist as much time allowances as I can. If I am told 4 weeks, then I know that in reality, it's more like 6-8. And that is fine. It's when it turns into 6 months that I start to get a little impatient. If I am told 6 months, that's fine...As long as the artist is in contact with me and I know they haven't forgotten about it. (or me) -

 

Lastly, don't be unrealistic. I think sometimes we hire these guys to do a piece and we start to put magicial powers on the finished product. I am going a little overboard here, but seriously , we think somehow this work will be an opus.....most of the time, it's a really nice piece that we would be proud to have drawn ourselves...But it's not mind-blowing.......There are execeptions, as with anything.

 

In many cases, you should probably keep your expectations pretty low. I mean, it's not like they're going to get royalties off a commission.

I commissioned an artist one time to do a drawing and gave him a rough outline of what I wanted. I was totally impressed with what I got back, since the guy is 80 years old. But, knowing he is 80 helped me to understand why one character had four fingers instead of five and then had a fifth one added, which looks odd. But, I knew he was old (I just didn't think he'd forget a human has five fingers instead of four). His lines weren't as fluid as I'd hoped, but, again, I knew he was 80. And, when he told me it'd be a fully penciled and inked piece, I didn't know he was going to do the whole thing in ballpoint pen - no pencils and inks, just scratchy ballpoint pen. But, I was still impressed with the whole thing and, because I kept my expectations to a realistic level, I was not disappointed at all.

[Hart1000]

I asked an inker last year for a commission of a character he worked on briefly in the 1980s. One cahracter pencil drawing was all I wanted. He said that he was now working in animation and that drawing a commission would be fun. So, he said he'd do one for $1800.

WHAT? $1800? Yes. $1800.

 

$1800!!!! That guy was smokin' crack!!!

For that much dough I'd by myself a Longshot page by Art Adams! And a couple more pages to boot!

 

Thanks for sharing.

HArt

[Timulty]

I still think those little blue guys need to learn how to make a Marguerita.

[Reno McCoy]

$1800? Are you sure that wasn't a typo? I mean, that's ridiculous.

 

 

 

Is there any way to find out if an artist is passionate about a particular character? I'm still stuck on the notion that my favorite Dejah Thoris pieces were from the artists who had fond memories of Edgar Rice Burroughs. Is there a nice way you can ask something like that?

[matewan1990]

$1800? Are you sure that wasn't a typo? I mean, that's ridiculous.

 

Nope, it wasn't a typo. I asked him if it was a typo and he said that was the going rate for someone in animation.

$1800 was the price.