SS vs. regular slabs

[s-man]

I don't believe it's a marketing ploy. The FBI is on record as stating that most autographed collectables sold in the marketplace today are fakes. I like the fact that I can buy an authenticated signed book and have the TRUST that it is the real deal not only for myself, but possible buyers as well, and yes, I am willing to pay more for that security.

 

I view it as a rock solid guarantee, not a marketing ploy.

 

 

My sentiments exactly!

[Mr. Zipper]

But anyone who **really** thinks SS is protecting them from a phantom epidemic of scary good JRJR and Neal Adams forgeries...

 

?

This makes no sense...

 

Signature Series is protecting people from forgeries. Please ask about the program and learn more about the program before passing judgement that someone might mistake for gospel.

 

Wow... you are drinking Kool-Aid by the gallon.

 

Protecting people from WHAT forgeries? Show me ONE Neal Adams forgery. Show me ONE fake from any contemporary comic pro. Call PSA/DNA and ask them how many bogus comic pro sigs they see in a year.

 

I can save you the phone call. The answer is ZERO. Who is going to waste time faking relatively valueless signatures? I've been collecting autographs for 20 years, I've been published in numerous autograph hobby publications, I've been interviewed by Barrons magazine and I've done authentications for major auction houses and dealers. I'm telling you, forgers aren't wasting their time faking comic pro autographs. They don't exist in any statistically relevant number. You have a better chance of getting hit by a meteor than getting stung buying a fake JRJR autograph.

 

Hell, if anyone thinks it's worth paying $150 - $200 for a $5 comic with a 100% genuine, honest to God, bet yer life on it, CGC authenticated SS signature, be my guest.

 

I think it's hilarious that people are willing to pay nosebleed premiums to protect themselves from a problem that doesn't exist in any substantive fashion.

[Kevin Boyd]

Didn't Stan Lee do this as well?

 

Sort of. The Stan Lee signing was a private signing at his office. He signed 400 items that day, and he received a signing fee for each, and a donation was given to ACTOR for each item as well.

[jonjesper]

No, what you said makes no sense...read it again. 'Scary good?' 'Phantom epidemic'? What? I think it might be you serving the Kool-Aid

 

If Neal Adams chooses to sell his own books and pay the Signature Series fee, that is his choice. The books can be easily had on ebay for a fraction of what is being charged or people can present their own books.

 

So basically what you are saying in a nutshell is that if there is no problem CURRENTLY, so we don't need someone to certify signatures until it is a problem? Is that correct?

or so to speak, I don't need insurance until I get in a car accident.

For someone with all the knowledge of the autograph hobby, I would think you could see the benefit of a 3rd party acknowledging signatures? When do signatures go up in value? When do people begin to forge signatures?

 

I really wish I had an authentic Will Eisner SS book, and they are out there, but now it is virtually impossible for me to have an 'authentic' signature of one of the greats as there are so few. I am sure one of the auctions houses out there has one from someone and the signature looks close and they have experts , but simply put, I would prefer to have a book witnessed and slabbed with certification right there.

 

So essentially CGC is acting in a preventative measure compared to a reactionary measure and this is a bad thing? If only all hobbies had this much foresight, sports signatures would not be under the scrutiny that they are.

 

I guess the bottom line is we will agree to disagree and SS books will continue to roll on regardless of your thoughts or mine

[shadroch]

JR Sr,and Adams both sign at the NY cons as well,without charging a fee for their autographs. I'm afraid this trend will be stopping because of SS books.

The yellow label protects you from nothing,because,as has been pointed out,who would fake a signature that has no value?

[Kevin Boyd]

I think it's hilarious that people are willing to pay nosebleed premiums to protect themselves from a problem that doesn't exist in any substantive fashion.

 

I agree it's not really a big issue at this time.

 

However, I think you are missing the point. People are not paying nosebleed premiums just for the autograph! A regular issue signature series in high grade is not making sellers much money beyond the $27 modern signature series price. $40 for a Neal Adams signed variant in 9.8 is not a nosebleed price considering that ungraded the books cost $10-20. Add in the grading fees and the time and effort involved in getting the books done and $40 seems cheap.

 

The books that are getting huge premium prices on eBay are HIGH GRADE (this is key) Signature Series comic books that are usually one of the following (or a combination of them):

 

(a) variants that are getting high prices in high grade anyway (like these RRPs)

 

(b) have sketches on them

 

© are in-demand key issues such as ASM300 or Wolverine 1

 

(d) have multiple signatures on them (such as Miller and McFarlane or Miller and Lee, or Johns w/ Hughes, Connor and Palmiotti).

 

(e) have a rare signature on them, by a creator that doesn't make many (or any) public appearances. For example, a Neil Gaiman signed comic should get more than a Bendis book simply because Gaiman doesn't make many public appearances and when he does he usually limits the number of books he will sign. A Stan Lee signature is difficult but not impossible, but a Steve Ditko autograph IS impossible but if you got some ASMs signed by Ditko the demand would outstrip any supply. Same thing goes for people like Alan Moore.

 

Now as an autograph expert are you going to suggest that if people are getting nosebleed prices for Signature Series books on eBay, that some lazy entrepreneur isn't going to sit in his basement and figure out that it sure would be easy for him to get an example of say, Jim Lee's autograph, and then sign a version of it on a stack of Batmans and see what he can get for them? John Romita SENIOR's autograph could be forged by a child (so can Bob Kane's for that matter!). Stan Lee's isn't that hard either. If someone got a hold of Moore's or Ditko's signature they could start selling those too. Wouldn't be difficult AT ALL. Would anyone buy them? That remains to be seen. Are you suggesting that no one would take the bait if a mysterious double-signed Lee/Ditko ASM (ungraded of course) suddenly emerged on eBay? And that they wouldn't pay a premium price for it? There aren't many since Ditko only appeared at a handful of events in the sixties before swearing off them forever.

 

However, once they are encapsulated, CGC's reputation is on the line. They are saying it is 100% authentic (plus, if you buy online you know the condition - the same benefit that regular 3rd party grading offers - you know you aren't risking buying someone's "NM" dogger.

[s-man]

JR Sr,and Adams both sign at the NY cons as well,without charging a fee for their autographs. I'm afraid this trend will be stopping because of SS books.

The yellow label protects you from nothing,because,as has been pointed out,who would fake a signature that has no value?

 

I buy them because I cant get to most of the shows out there, so I cant get the signature myself and unless I know the person who is selling the book, I dont trust books that are supposedly signed by the artist/writer to be authentic. Im glad there are SS books!

[Kevin Boyd]

JR Sr,and Adams both sign at the NY cons as well,without charging a fee for their autographs. I'm afraid this trend will be stopping because of SS books.

 

The yellow label protects you from nothing,because,as has been pointed out,who would fake a signature that has no value?

 

Not quite true Shad... Adams gives you two for free, any more than two books and he'll charge you $3 a signature. And that has always been his policy as long as I've seen him at public events.

 

Good luck finding a public appearance by Romita Sr. where he isn't signing for ACTOR. New York National was a rare exception... he signed for ACTOR at the NY Comic Con, Baltimore Comicon, and he will be signing for ACTOR in Philly next week.

 

And it is not true that the yellow label provides you with nothing. It provides you with everything that a blue label does - a grade and a restoration check. You also get CGC's word that the signature was witnessed by someone from, or approved by CGC.

[blazingbob]

Wow, I thought this was another one of those "Who would win threads", Silver Surfer or CGC

[Kevin Boyd]

Silver Surfer.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I'm having the time of my life collecting signatures. Being able to pull one of my fave books from my collection & having it signed by the artist that I worshipped as a kid is priceless to me.

 

These guys have never been more accessible than right now, and I know that I'll appreciate these books even more in the future.

 

When possible, I try & get signatures on the interior of the book. Not always easy, and in some cases the artist only worked on the cover....so an exterior sig is the only thing that makes sense.

 

When it comes to cover sigs, I'm pretty particular about how the signature presents itself on my permanent keepers.

 

Here's my fave Romita Sr. book that I own.

 

And the nicest Mignola sig I've seen to date. Love the placement

 

[Mr. Zipper]

JR Sr,and Adams both sign at the NY cons as well,without charging a fee for their autographs. I'm afraid this trend will be stopping because of SS books.

 

The yellow label protects you from nothing,because,as has been pointed out,who would fake a signature that has no value?

 

I have had the same thoughts, Shad.

 

What I can see happening is that SS books may actually give incentive to some to produce fakes.

 

For instance, before SS, no one is faking Neal Adams in any substantive quantity because it was a free or a $3 signature.

 

Next, SS is introduced and "signed books" start selling for crazy $$.

 

The possible result is that some in the market may think, "SS books are worth alot, but I can't pay $150 for a Neal Adams SS. But, I'd be willing to pay much less ... maybe $50 for a raw Adams signed book."

 

Presto... SS has risen the relative value of all "signed books" and now it's actually worth it for forgers to start cranking out fake Adam's sigs.

[jonjesper]

Silver Surfer.

 

CGC

[jonjesper]

I suppose it is the same case with people pressing books, restoring, light color touch, printing money, trimming etc. There will always be someone out there looking to find a way...

Thank goodness we have Signature Series to authenticate the signature...whew!

[Darrell F]

Silver Surfer.

 

CGC

 

Surfer.

[OldGuy]

I'm having the time of my life collecting signatures.

 

Nuff said.

 

If that were the only reason it would be enough in my opinion. If you're collection what you love then it's all good.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I'm having the time of my life collecting signatures.

 

Nuff said.

 

If that were the only reason it would be enough in my opinion. If you're collection what you love then it's all good.

 

I've always collected what I love. Now I'm just getting those self-same books signed by the those that I grew up admiring.

[mitol]

I've always collected what I love. Now I'm just getting those self-same books signed by the those that I grew up admiring.

 

For my 1000th post after three years on these boards, Amen brother!

 

 

 

Totally off topic: And to my two trouble-making, greedy, profiteering, as neutral as N. Korea on the topic of nulcear power, friends Zit and Sirhc, three letters of the alphabet come to mind. The first letter is an S. Adieu.

[Tiziano]

I've always collected what I love. Now I'm just getting those self-same books signed by the those that I grew up admiring.

 

For my 1000th post after three years on these boards, Amen brother!

 

 

 

Totally off topic: And to my two trouble-making, greedy, profiteering, as neutral as N. Korea on the topic of nulcear power, friends Zit and Sirhc, three letters of the alphabet come to mind. The first letter is an S. Adieu.

 

Come on!!!!

You can't go and retire now!!!

 

[RaccoonRaccoon]

Wow - I'm thrilled my thread has gotten so many responses!!!

 

After reading every post, I think that CGC and CGC SS both have their place in the comic book industry.

 

While there might not be a rampant problem with autograph fakes in the industry, SS does provide comfort that the signature is real. It's surprising to me how easy some of these signatures can be forged!! I'm sure if there are 1000 raw books "signed" by Romita, there will absolutely be some % of them that are fakes!

 

What's the motivation to fake a signature, lets say you have a stack of raw books that are not worth getting slabbed, how can you earn some extra $$$ in the sale? Slap a signature on them and there will be more interest in the books, where before they may have gone unnoticed.

 

Whether you like CGC and SS is irrelavant, but no one can dispute that they do provide a service. Now paying many multiples of any book if its slabbed or slabbed SS is of personal choice. Would I buy a $5.00 book for $200 because it was SS and in high grade, no (personally). But would I buy a $5.00 book for maybe $50 because it was in high grade and or SS, maybe? (depending on how bad I want it)

 

Anyway, getting back to the spirit of the original post

ASM # 250 is CGC 9.6

ASM #250 is CGC SS 9.6

What is worth more? Or is it purely equal value unless you desire SS and are willing to pay a bit more?