I just soiled myself.....and I couldn't be happier.

[THE_BEYONDER]

It isn't even the PQ bump that bothers me. It's the continued cloak & dagger [embarrassing lack of self control] that is getting tiresome.

[esquirecomics]

This whole thing is completely retarded. If there was a clear & logical expanation...we would have already heard it.

I'm sick of this [embarrassing lack of self control].

 

The problem is we haven't heard anything from CGC.

 

Their lack of official response in some forum to this and other credibility issues will ultimately prove harmful to its business. The shame of it is that it is all avoidable.

[ComicSupply]

And I really don't think we will hear one. Obviously if a book is sent in time and time again asking to check the PQ then the only obvious direction to go is up.

[Scheradon]

I'm curious if I had a 9.8 book and wanted to send it in for a 9.9 "review" if it can be done the same way or if that would have to be a resubmit.

 

Either way, I'd like an explanation of this tier of service.

 

How much does it cost?

How does one even know about this type of service?

Can anyone participate in this service?

What types of things can reviewed on a book with this type of service?

Does the seriel number always stay the same with this type of service?

Why does the seriel number stay the same?

 

Lots of questions right now...

[runningman]

This whole thing is completely retarded. If there was a clear & logical expanation...we would have already heard it.

I'm sick of this [embarrassing lack of self control].

 

I think the clear and logical explanation is that Doug knew he had a book worth thousands and thousands of dollars, and if he had to spend $1000 or $2000 to get the White Pages designation, then it would be a smart investment.

 

Shame on the idea, but the simpliest explanation is usually true.

 

You're dead on here.

[PedigreeMan]

This whole thing is completely retarded. If there was a clear & logical expanation...we would have already heard it.

I'm sick of this [embarrassing lack of self control].

 

I think the clear and logical explanation is that Doug knew he had a book worth thousands and thousands of dollars, and if he had to spend $1000 or $2000 to get the White Pages designation, then it would be a smart investment.

 

Shame on the idea, but the simpliest explanation is usually true.

 

You're dead on here.

 

So can either one of you explain why the serial number didn't change?

[Rocketeer]

....I can...it's all vanity,...he didn't want to loose the whole "#3rd book ever graded by CGC" thing,...so he insisted on the serial number not being changed,...and CGC obliged,..cause they didn't want to rock the boat with a BSD client,....now this is a theory mind you,...it's one of many plausible and possible answers,...I am in no way inferring that this is what actually happened,...

[divad]

....I can...it's all vanity,...he didn't want to loose the whole "#3rd book ever graded by CGC" thing,...so he insisted on the serial number not being changed,...and CGC obliged,..cause they didn't want to rock the boat with a BSD client,....now this is a theory mind you,...it's one of many plausible and possible answers,...I am in no way inferring that this is what actually happened,...

 

Of course that's the way it is But a BSD is a figment of the Board's imagination. Doug is a personal friend of Steve's, period. CGC's bottom line doesn't bear on what Doug does or does not do. He's good marketing for them, as long as the transparency of his reputation is not held to any close scrutiny.

 

"Hey, he paid his debt for the things he did wrong." Uh, no . . . he didn't. Read it. Read it again. Read it again. The worst thing is, he's in denial because it suits his current "business model." BSD is a crock. Most "pedigrees" are a crock. All but a few dealers are a crock. And it is all sustained by those of you who support this crock.

 

I'm not opposed to using CGC to maximize return on key HG books I sell. But that is the only reason I would use them. Period. We should not be surprised by goings on like this, nor should we ignore it . . . so carry on!

[Rocketeer]

...heretic,...

 

[ComicSupply]

....I can...it's all vanity,...he didn't want to loose the whole "#3rd book ever graded by CGC" thing,...so he insisted on the serial number not being changed,...and CGC obliged,..cause they didn't want to rock the boat with a BSD client,....now this is a theory mind you,...it's one of many plausible and possible answers,...I am in no way inferring that this is what actually happened,...

 

Of course that's the way it is But a BSD is a figment of the Board's imagination. Doug is a personal friend of Steve's, period. CGC's bottom line doesn't bear on what Doug does or does not do. He's good marketing for them, as long as the transparency of his reputation is not held to any close scrutiny.

 

"Hey, he paid his debt for the things he did wrong." Uh, no . . . he didn't. Read it. Read it again. Read it again. The worst thing is, he's in denial because it suits his current "business model." BSD is a crock. Most "pedigrees" are a crock. All but a few dealers are a crock. And it is all sustained by those of you who support this crock.

 

I'm not opposed to using CGC to maximize return on key HG books I sell. But that is the only reason I would use them. Period. We should not be surprised by goings on like this, nor should we ignore it . . . so carry on!

 

I totally agree. It is kind of like getting pulled over and being best friends with the Sheriff.

[divad]

...heretic,...

 

 

I am not worthy . . .

[drbanner]

Has anyone yet raised this specific issue with CGC personnel?

 

Doubtful...

[Flaming_Telepath]

If you don't like my disdain for the unsubstantiated conspiracy theories spewed on these boards then maybe you should disclose some of your "unnamed sources". How are those fine mysterious gentlemen by the way?

 

They're absolutely fine, thanks for asking! Still helping to turn up the dirt, I'm glad to say.

 

Which they'd have trouble doing if their anonimity was to be blown...but of course, you already know that.

[Red Hook]

This whole thing leaves me with the following question:

 

"Wouldn't it be great if CGC made public a full list of the services they offer, including those filed under "other", so that all collectors were made aware of the options and thus take advantage of them if they so wished?"

 

It seems like there are still two tiers of service in place. PCS may be gone in name.....

 

Favoritism to the big customers still irks me. A level collecting field is not in place at this time.

 

And a question to Doug: "Would you trade the PQ bump in your FF1 for a guarantee that the Yankees win the World Series this year?"

 

 

Red

[COI]

Doug's past is a seperate issue that has nothing to do with this book.

 

I'm not personally aware of any large business on this planet that dosen't give out "perks" to major clients, nor am I aware of any large business that makes all of its "inner workings" completely transparent for all to see. Why should CGC be the exception, and why does it upset everyone so much?

[Ze-man]

Doug's past is a seperate issue that has nothing to do with this book.

 

I'm not personally aware of any large business on this planet that dosen't give out "perks" to major clients, nor am I aware of any large business that makes all of its "inner workings" completely transparent for all to see. Why should CGC be the exception, and why does it upset everyone so much?

 

 

Because in this case, the rich get richer. I am fine with CGC treating their best clients better. But where that line is drawn is what bothers me.

 

Who gets the perks, and what are those perks?..Since those perks come down to more cash for the submitter. It is not the same as a company giving away tickets to a Football game, or taking a client out to dinner.

 

CGC is based on being unbiased. Preferential treatment of BSD's is anything BUT unbiased.

 

Ze-

[Comicdey]

Doug's past is a seperate issue that has nothing to do with this book.

 

I'm not personally aware of any large business on this planet that dosen't give out "perks" to major clients, nor am I aware of any large business that makes all of its "inner workings" completely transparent for all to see. Why should CGC be the exception, and why does it upset everyone so much?

 

The same reason inside trading irks people, and the same reason it irks shareholders when bonus's don't reflect the profitibility of a company, and the same reason it irks people who commit white collar crimes get off with a slap on the wrist and the same reason.......it's a have and have not society we live in on many occasions, and those that aren't allowed (don't even know how) to play in the same game, feel left out and abused.

[skybolt]

Doug's past is a seperate issue that has nothing to do with this book.

 

I'm not personally aware of any large business on this planet that dosen't give out "perks" to major clients, nor am I aware of any large business that makes all of its "inner workings" completely transparent for all to see. Why should CGC be the exception, and why does it upset everyone so much?

 

The same reason inside trading irks people, and the same reason it irks shareholders when bonus's don't reflect the profitibility of a company, and the same reason it irks people who commit white collar crimes get off with a slap on the wrist and the same reason.......it's a have and have not society we live in on many occasions, and those that aren't allowed (don't even know how) to play in the same game, feel left out and abused.

 

I think that's a good comparison. I could care less if someone takes a client out to dinner or even invites them to their house. What irks me is that I may be purchasing one of these books (with a tainted history) down the line, and be stuck holding the bag. This type of insider service has a direct and negative impact on the average collector and shouldn't be taken lightly.

[Flaming_Telepath]

OK, so let’s recap here…

 

We have Mr Schmell’s FF #1 listed on his site at a cool half-mil…9.6 with Off-White pages. This has been in his possession for close to ten years and in a slab for over five years.

 

You’d think that, after having the book in plastic for more than five years, and being convinced that the page quality was actually Off-White to White, an experienced seller like Mr Schmell would have covered all the bases before listing the book for sale? Apparently not.

 

A couple of days after the book is linked here, and a (facetious) comment is made regarding it needing White Pages to justify the price, it is whisked off to Sarasota and processed through a tier/submission process that hasn’t previously existed…it’s apparently called a ‘Page Quality Review (Because You Were Tough On PQ Back In 2000) But Not A Grade Review (Because You Were A Bit Loose On This Back In 2000)’.

 

Now, the book is either removed from the inner well (in which case it surely needs to be regraded, despite the option box Mr Schmell ticked?) or the page quality is gauged without removal (in which case CGC employees possess X-ray vision), but either way, most surprisingly, it jumps all the way up from Off-White straight to White…do not pass go, do not collect $200. This was actually better than Mr Schmell had previously publicly claimed, but coincidentally was what this board suggested it needed to justify the price tag.

 

The book retained its serial number (presumably because Mr Schmell also ticked the box on the submission form that gives this option, the ‘Please Ensure We Lose The Paper Trial On This Puppy’ box) and a new scan appears on his web-site of the new, improved FF #1, but without any disclosure regarding its recent history.

 

Now, given all of this (and the past and present monumental [embarrassing lack of self control]-ups)…how in god’s name can anyone…anyone…maintain support for, or belief in, either CGC, or their inner circle of cronies? It is totally beyond me how anybody can think this is anything other than rampant nepotism, designed not to preserve the ‘long-term health of the hobby’, but rather to squeeze the last red cent out of some poor schmuck and further line the pockets of someone who deserves nothing.

 

It is further evidence that, providing you know the Secret Squirrel Club handshake, CGC has no processes or standards, other than those you demand (remember Mr Schmell’s on-site box of goodies?). If you know which type of wine to bring to Sarasota as a present for Mr Borock, CGC are guardians of nothing other than your bank balance.

 

But then again, as bed partners, Mr Schmell and CGC are perfectly suited to each other, because Mr Schmell has the book listed on his site without any disclosure of the under-the-table improvement it recently obtained.

 

So, we’re the enemies of the hobby, the people who are destroying its future and spoiling things for the innocent collector? Give me a break! All we’re asking for is a level playing field for dealers and collectors alike, transparency and clearly defined standards from the premier grading company in the industry, and disclosure as to precisely what we’re buying.

 

How is that anything other than beneficial to the health of the hobby?

 

On the other side of the coin, the self-appointed ‘guardians’ of the industry have yet again proved themselves to be entirely committed to the playing of the system to the benefit of their bestest chums. At the same time, the Lauterbachs, Ewert, Schmells, Nelsons and Heritages of this world are deliberately and wilfully misleading (at very best) every poor they can get their claws into.

 

BTW, whilst we’re on the subject of Mr Schmell and his ‘custom’ CGC submissions, we’re all still waiting for the ‘evidence’ that he had promised would clear him of all charges relating to the ‘Trim JIM’. With all the cracking, pressing, resubbing, driving to Sarasota with a chilled bottle of Chardonay in the trunk and pimping the ‘8th Best Marvel Collection Of Strange Tales Between #131 and #144’ in the Marketplace, I understand he’s been rather busy, but even so…eight months?

 

It’s a good job that Mr Schmell’s turn-around time on CGC resubs isn’t quite so lengthy….

[PedigreeMan]

I'm not personally aware of any large business on this planet that dosen't give out "perks" to major clients, nor am I aware of any large business that makes all of its "inner workings" completely transparent for all to see. Why should CGC be the exception, and why does it upset everyone so much?

 

Andrew, the issue of the unchanging serial number points to something much deeper than a simple perk (i.e. getting a bump in the grading line, getting a "from the collection of" designation, getting your own grading scale) or the need to keep a "secret recipe" (i.e. grading standards) hidden. Rather, it implies that the CGC submission procedure that has been 100% transparent from day one (and most definitely needs to be in order for there to be any confidence in a third party grading company -- or are you all forgetting CGG/PGX/FOO/BAR/whatever it's called today) can be bypassed.

 

No new serial number means no anonymous mylar-ing and no anonymous barcoding, right? Does it also mean no anonymous pre-graders? Heck, was the book even broken out of the slab?

 

This goes directly to CGC's core business, Andrew, and as such is very fair game.

 

Alan