I just soiled myself.....and I couldn't be happier.

[esquirecomics]

 

The problem with "traditional" vs "non-traditional" is that we really need to know what the exact standards and policies that exist with and are implemented by CGC to reach an informed determination. Based on what we do know from anecdotal experience, as discussed in this thread, the lack of a new serial number does appear troubling.

 

 

For those of you that do not speak lawyer.

 

He said, "We dont know how the f CGC grades our books, they wont tell us."

 

I thought I said that.

[Shield]

Comicdey,

 

Give CGC some slack. This was the 3rd book they ever looked at. I'm pretty sure they will also admit they were harsh on the page q to begin with.

 

Doug

 

Was this the 3rd book they looked at when they put it in a new holder? How about the 2nd time they did, which happened to be this month?

[Aman619]

any reason why Doug who has owned the book for years suddenly decided to get reholdering and an upgrade? Did he drop it and crack the case recently?

[lou_fine]

I was hinting that I'd be bringing this book with me to CGC (which was on June 12th) because I knew, in my heart of hearts, that the pages were nicer than off-white. Remember, I owned, smelled and looked at this book for over 4 years before CGC opened its doors in 2000. CGC was a little bit loose on overall grading at first and very tight (to a fault, imho) on page quality. Remember, this was the 3rd book ever graded. Talk about an early submission and a good candidate for a page quality check.

 

Anyway, I submitted it for a page quality review on the 12th and it came back WHITE!! I knew it would be at least off-white to white and getting it to white just confirmed what I believed all along. Again, not the type of book to send in through the mail or Fedex, but I decided to bring it with me last trip. The cert. # is the same, I believe, because it wasn't a re-submission, it was a review and CGC doesn't change the bar code # on a review.

 

Doug

 

Doug;

 

Congrats on the upgrade in the PQ on the FF #1.

 

It looks like your grading skills is superior to CGC's grading abilities once again as you managed to get them to correct for their PQ undergrade. Any plans on sending the book in for the full regrade so CGC can correct for the fact that this book was as you said in your own words, loosely graded from a condition point of view.

 

After all, we certainly don't want an overgraded 9.4 book to be left sitting in a CGC holder with a 9.6 label.

[esquirecomics]

Maybe we can lobby CGC to hire Doug as one of its graders?

[PedigreeMan]

Anyway, I submitted it for a page quality review on the 12th and it came back WHITE!! I knew it would be at least off-white to white and getting it to white just confirmed what I believed all along. Again, not the type of book to send in through the mail or Fedex, but I decided to bring it with me last trip. The cert. # is the same, I believe, because it wasn't a re-submission, it was a review and CGC doesn't change the bar code # on a review.

 

A "review."

 

Hrm.

 

Can someone explain to me what a "review" is and how it relates to (or deviates from) CGC's standard operating procedure of blind grading a book ...? You all know the procedure: Shipping department gets it, transfers it to a new mylar, barcodes it, pre-graders get it, etc. Are any of these steps bypassed during this "review?"

 

How does one go about setting up one of these "reviews?"

 

And, most importantly, what else besides page quality can one get changed through a "review?" A grade? A PLOD? A "trimmed" designation?

 

A "review."

 

Interesting.

 

One more piece to the puzzle. Thanks for the info, Doug.

[benz]

 

 

Surprise that CGC has no comments until today...I think this deserves an explanation

[sterlingcomics]

PQ is what is it. OW to White is a huge jump, no matter when it was graded.

 

Maybe the OWL card was upside down?

[Shield]

Anyway, I submitted it for a page quality review on the 12th and it came back WHITE!! I knew it would be at least off-white to white and getting it to white just confirmed what I believed all along. Again, not the type of book to send in through the mail or Fedex, but I decided to bring it with me last trip. The cert. # is the same, I believe, because it wasn't a re-submission, it was a review and CGC doesn't change the bar code # on a review.

 

A "review."

 

Hrm.

 

Can someone explain to me what a "review" is and how it relates to (or deviates from) CGC's standard operating procedure of blind grading a book ...? You all know the procedure: Shipping department gets it, transfers it to a new mylar, barcodes it, pre-graders get it, etc. Are any of these steps bypassed during this "review?"

 

How does one go about setting up one of these "reviews?"

 

And, most importantly, what else besides page quality can one get changed through a "review?" A grade? A PLOD? A "trimmed" designation?

 

A "review."

 

Interesting.

 

One more piece to the puzzle. Thanks for the info, Doug.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing! "Page review" Indeed!

[Nostalgic Attic]

[jbud73]

I just don't understand why some people here hold him in such high esteem.

 

Doug is the nicest guy/dealer I have ever dealt with before in this industry, period, and I enjoy his knowledge and participation on various threads. Maybe if you did business with him you would know that but instead you seem to go out of your way to bash the guy on a regular basis. We all make mistakes and Doug paid dearly for his so just leave it alone already.

 

Actually I've always seen Doug as the epitomy of the analogy - "deny you had anything to do with it, profess your undying love for it and you can get away with anything related to it."

 

Hey I wonder is Vinny would broadcast the CGC 'planning session' tapes on comiczone. They could then be reviewed by the committe CGC is establishing to 'bridge the gap' between their company and the grass roots collector.

 

I know I'm supposed to remain positive, but sometimes the things that occur in this hobby make politics seem angelic by comparison.

[Comicdey]

Comicdey,

 

Believe it or not, this has nothing to do with increasing the book's value. I am a collector (probably the biggest one you'd ever know!!) and intrinsically, I knew the pages were nicer than off-white and obviously, wanted the better pages. Yes, I put it on my web-ste in the vault section with a price, but I really don't expect it to sell for that amount and I am extremely happy owning the book. If the book came back with white pages, and then I changed the list price to $525,000 or sonmething, then I would be trying to capitalize on the page quality change. I didn't do that and never will. I don't really think the difference between off-white and white would matter much to an investor or wealthy collector who wanted to shell ourt big bucks to own an FF 1 in 9.6

 

The bottom line is, the pages were never off-white (only in 3 graders' minds). I saw the pages, as did Tom Brulato and the dealer I bought it from, Dan Greenhalgh. Ask them if they thought the pages were off-white!! I've had so many Pacific Coast books go from cream to off-white to off-white or off-white to white that getting the white pages didn't surprise me one bit. Give CGC some slack. This was the 3rd book they ever looked at. I'm pretty sure they will also admit they were harsh on the page q to begin with.

 

Doug

 

Doug,

 

Thanks for responding directly to my commentary.

 

I believe you and agree with many of your comments. I really don't think CGC needs any "slack" though.

 

It's an incredible book, and I'm happy that it exists in such a pristine state. Whether you own it or the next person with large sums of money is inconsequential to me. It's obvious that you don't want to sell it as your listing price is quite obscene, but then again, the highest priced comics have always been priced at obscene levels in terms of number of years salary for ordinary collectors. When the time comes to sell the book, the page bump will help, there is no denying that fact. Whether you list it at 500K or 475K or 525K is not the issue.

 

The CGC grading of page quality is not really the issue either as far as I'm concerned. It's just the ongoing inconsistancies and grade revisionist history that keep appearing in numerous threads. This is a minor example of the bigger issue that many threads are currently exposing and discussing.

 

My initial quote was very "in jest" as if having a 9.6 issue of FF #1 wouldn't be complete without "white" pages. It's obvious you have an incredible collection and spare no expense to obtain the very best when it comes to silver age books. Right place, right time, right amount of cash flow......it's a great combination. Try finding a high grade 9.4 or better pre-1968 silver age comic in Alaska from an original owner collection. I'm pretty confident they don't exist up here although there are some impressive collections.

 

My second comment was more "amazement" that the designation was changed fairly quickly after I made my comment. Again, very "in jest", knowing full well that the comments of a pedestrian collector such as myself would have no impact on how you deal with your personal collection, or how you list or sell the issue.

 

I do have a few questions as to the reason for performing the field trip and page upgrade expedition to Sarasota. First, If you didn't think the upgrade would help, then why in the world would you pay the fees required to have the book re-checked and re-holdered "again" with the associated risks of damaging the book. If you already knew the book would come back "white" why not just state that and leave it up to the next purchaser. My answer is that it adds value, real or perceived, to the next rich "white elephant" comic purchaser, making it near impossible that a better copy will ever surface. I only say "near" as you never know if another curator is out there lurking with the next great silver age find.

 

Again, great copy , out of my range and being handled way too much in my humble opinion.

 

 

Collin (comicdey)

[ComicSupply]

And exactly why did people think I was crazy when I first said,

 

"The question I would have is what was this book at one time?"

[Flaming_Telepath]

Anyway, I submitted it for a page quality review on the 12th and it came back WHITE!! I knew it would be at least off-white to white and getting it to white just confirmed what I believed all along. Again, not the type of book to send in through the mail or Fedex, but I decided to bring it with me last trip. The cert. # is the same, I believe, because it wasn't a re-submission, it was a review and CGC doesn't change the bar code # on a review.

 

A "review."

 

Hrm.

 

Can someone explain to me what a "review" is and how it relates to (or deviates from) CGC's standard operating procedure of blind grading a book ...? You all know the procedure: Shipping department gets it, transfers it to a new mylar, barcodes it, pre-graders get it, etc. Are any of these steps bypassed during this "review?"

 

How does one go about setting up one of these "reviews?"

 

And, most importantly, what else besides page quality can one get changed through a "review?" A grade? A PLOD? A "trimmed" designation?

 

A "review."

 

Interesting.

 

One more piece to the puzzle. Thanks for the info, Doug.

 

You'll find all the detail in the CGC handbook, in the section entitled 'Make It Up As You Go Along'.

 

Unfortunately, I think those pages are only included in the BSD volume...

[Flaming_Telepath]

And exactly why did people think I was crazy when I first said,

 

"The question I would have is what was this book at one time?"

 

Obviously, Lord Rahl must be away on vacation, because I'm sure he otherwise would have been all over his thread defending his 'conspiracy theories' comments....

[tth2]

You'll find all the detail in the CGC handbook, in the section entitled 'Make It Up As You Go Along'.

 

Unfortunately, I think those pages are only included in the BSD volume...

Let's take up a collection on the boards and give enough money to one individual, say, me, to become a BSD. Then once that individual has splashed out enough money and subbed enough books to CGC to become recognized as a BSD, he can get admitted to the inner sanctorum and learn all the dirty secrets, and then disclose them here.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

You'll find all the detail in the CGC handbook, in the section entitled 'Make It Up As You Go Along'.

 

Unfortunately, I think those pages are only included in the BSD volume...

Let's take up a collection on the boards and give enough money to one individual, say, me, to become a BSD. Then once that individual has splashed out enough money and subbed enough books to CGC to become recognized as a BSD, he can get admitted to the inner sanctorum and learn all the dirty secrets, and then disclose them here.

 

You're already a BSD Tim! Why do you think we don't let you into our group, the Small Time United Collectors Klan (or S.T.U.C.K).

[tth2]

Small Time United Collectors Klan (or S.T.U.C.K).

[Flaming_Telepath]

Small Time United Collectors Klan (or S.T.U.C.K).

 

But I thought we were known as Small-time Collectors Uninformed & Misled (or S.C.U.M. as we're known in Sarasota)?

[tth2]

Small Time United Collectors Klan (or S.T.U.C.K).

 

But I thought we were known as Small-time Collectors Uninformed & Misled (or S.C.U.M. as we're known in Sarasota)?

So no one wants to give me money to infiltrate CGC?