War Comics 17 17

[thirdgreenham]

camera is a piece, scanner sucks, will see what I can do. (thumbs u

 

Andy

[bill977]

Just got an OFF 45 CGC 7.5 back from CGC.

 

 

nice catch!!

[thirdgreenham]

Just got an OFF 45 CGC 7.5 back from CGC.

 

 

nice catch!!

 

Thanks Bill!

[MrBedrock]

A few newbies to add to the flock...

[MrBedrock]

[MrBedrock]

[thirdgreenham]

 

I love this one!

 

Not a bad #72, either. (thumbs u

 

Andy

[comick1]

 

I love this one!

 

Andy

 

Me, too. Awesome group of comics, Richard!

[bill977]

now you have made me green with envy.great book!!

[AtlasFan]

Howdy all you war comic buffs:

I am doing a little research based on a discussion in (of all places) the Timely-Atlas Yahoo Group of Communist themes in DC comics during the 50's and early 60's. Red Chinese/Russian and Korean adversaries were common in Atlas/Marvel, Quality, Standard, etc war books...but are as rare as hen's teeth in DC war books.

 

This is made really apparent when DC takes over the BLACKHAWK series from Quality. In the Quality run, most of the team's adversaries are Reds..very shortly after DC takes over, all the Communist villains disappear and the team turns mainly into monster-fighters.

 

Could anyone here identify any major post-WW2 era stories in DC war books from the 50's/early 60s that deals with the Reds -- or opine as to why DC was soft on using the Reds as villians?

many thanks,

Prof. Bill

Edited May 5, 2010 by AtlasFan

[MrBedrock]

I like the question...and have no idea the answer...so...

[Karma23]

Maybe DC was simply put off by all the McCarthy era witch hunting?

 

Maybe it was because the kids of WW II vets were reading comics and wanted stories about what their dads did during the War?

 

 

Or not.

 

[Jeffro.]

 

Could anyone here identify any major post-WW2 era stories in DC war books from the 50's/early 60s that deals with the Reds -- or opine as to why DC was soft on using the Reds as villians?

many thanks,

Prof. Bill

 

Dunno how 'major' it is but here is an example. mentions "Reds" on the cover.

 

[Jeffro.]

All American Men of War 128 features two Korean war stories and shows Either Korean or Chinese soldiers on the cover

[AtlasFan]

There are a smattering of Communist antagonists covers and stories in the BIG 5 during the Korean War, but they all but vanish after 1953 when the war ends.

 

I always suspected that the management at DC may have been "sympathetic" to the cause. I do recall reading -- I believe it was an interview with Kanigher -- that the management at DC leaned a bit twords the left, thus squashing several of his Red themed war stories. And that DC owners Harry Donenfeld & Jack Liebowitz had strong ties to certain radical unions in the 20s and 30s.

 

 

[bigfiver69]

I'd be surprised to think it had to do with sympathy to the 'cause'... if there was ever a capitalist enclave in comics, I suspect it was at National/DC... it was 'THE CORPORATION' of comics, even in those days.

 

I think it was more an issue of timing.

 

Both Atlas and EC were publishing war comics almost as soon as the Korean war began. Two Fisted Tales became a true war early comic with #19 (Jan-Feb '51).

 

DC came a little late to the party - In contrast, Star Spangled War Stories (DC's first war comic) never appeared until August 1952... 18 months later. The war was still hot then, but the conflict had become a stalemate, and to some degree the population had lost interest a bit as the US effort turned towards bombing and holding the line.

 

Also, the input of Bob Kanigher would have been key here... Kanigher enlisted during World War 2, but did not serve in combat (not sure why... the war may have ended before he went overseas). But it's certainly possible that he saw WW2 as the ultimate struggle between good and evil (he liked big themes) and chose to base his storytelling on that.

 

Interesting to note, however, that while Superman had no trouble battling the 'Japanazis' in the Golden Age, I can't recall see stories of him fighting commies during the cold war. Granted, Supes is not my bailiwick.

 

Certainly, though, Atlas were all over the red-baiting, kill-a-commie theme... right into the late 50s. After 1953-54, though, there were very few communist-centred tales in DC's books. One that really stands out, however, is 'Toy Jet' drawn by Russ Heath, one of my faves.

 

Shep

 

Edited May 6, 2010 by bigfiver69

[AtlasFan]

I think there is more to this than DC's (or Kanigher's) desire to keep the majority of its war stories set in WW2.

 

If you look through the entire body of what DC was publishing in the 50s & early 60s, there is virtually no mention of the Reds and a protagonist in any stories: superhero, mystery, sci-fi fantasy or war. Even the espionage books (like DANGER TRAIL - King Faraday, Johnny Peril, etc.) never mentions the Reds by name...the adversary is always "a foreign power".

 

This really shows clearly when DC takes over BLACKHAWKS from Quality and all the Red villains/themes vanish.

 

Marvel, on the other hand regularly injected the Red Menace into all its titles...right up to its super-hero rebirth (the FF, Hulk and Iron Man all had Red Menace themes involved in their origins).

 

It would be most interesting to investigate the politics of the owners and editors of DC during this period .. to see if a pattern develops.

Bill

Edited May 6, 2010 by AtlasFan

[bigfiver69]

Bill, you know... you're convincing me that you might be on to something with this.... I hadn't considered the Blackhawk change, but you're right... any reference to Commies evaporates once you the title moved from Quality to DC.

 

Moreover, the Quality issues of G.I. Combat (#10-#43) are stridently anti-communist. But as soon as the title starts at DC, it's straight back to World War 2. So, like many of the other publishers, Quality was using the Red Menace as a source of villains... something that DC drops like a stone as soon as those titles came into the house.

 

Interesting for sure... this is an element of DC war comics that I had never even considered, and it raises many fascinating questions.

 

I wonder if Kanigher ever addressed any of these issues in the interviews he gave?

 

Sh*t like this is why I love these boards!

Shep

 

 

[MrBedrock]

Could it be something as simple as DC writing down to their perceived target audience? Maybe they were convinced that kids were their predominant customer and kids didn't want any present day politics mixing with their funnybook escapism. And maybe DC choose to make all of their comics as kid friendly and unthreatening as possible. Dell Comics very rarely included anything remotely political. They were also considered good, wholesome comics. During the '50s DC was attempting to distance themselves from the publishers who were producing more lurid content and thus in jeopardy of getting sideways with the parents groups and media watchdogs. In effect DC was aligning themselves with the Dell publishing model, Dell being at that time the largest comics publisher. Maybe in an attempt to protect themselves from any negative publicity (and I mean ANY) they editorially chose to eliminate any reference to anything that could potentially garner any kind of adverse reaction. I'm sure they were pretty positive that space aliens were not going to be starting a picket line in front of their offices. Reds probably weren't either, but that was still an issue that was controversial and hit closer to home. And remember that DC didn't start to address any social issues of consequence until the early '70s, well after Marvel proved that doing so was not only acceptable, but a viable way to improve storytelling and thus increase readership.

[AtlasFan]

I think that it would have been more "politically correct" at the time to show the Reds as the enemies than to not mention them at all.

 

DC had no problem depicting anti-Nazi covers during WW2 and long thereafter in all of its war titles. Ask yourself: Who were the direct polar opposites of the Nazis? The Reds! Why would DC have no issue with depicting the Nazis as villains, but not the Reds?

 

During the Korean War, you can see that DC really seemed to hesitate to depict the Reds as enemies. And. like I said, after 1953, there are no anti-Communist covers or stories -- anywhere in DC-land. The only exception to this was in the BLACKHAWK title, where the first few DC issues did have a couple of anti-Communist stories, but I suspect that DC was just using up the last of the inventory left over from Quality.

 

Remember that during the 50's the Reds were vilified in the US even more-so than the Nazis -- after all, any potential conflict with a Soviet backed country at that time could have resulted in an unthinkable atomic war.

 

Interesting questions that I will continue to peruse the answers to.