The New Pressing Project Results Thread

tth2 · June 15, 2006

Since the previous thread started by Matt/Restoman got turned into yet another pressing debate thread, I'm starting this thread and asking that everyone who submitted books to Matt to re-post their books and commentary here, so everyone who actually has an interest in what happened doesn't have to scroll through pages of detritus to check out the results of the experiment.

If you want to debate the merits of pressing, restoration, Matt Nelson, etc., or just want to pick a fight with Matt, please do so in the other thread. Don't post it here! Thanks.

Scans of the pre-pressed books, post-pressed books, owner's grades before, Matt's notes/commentary, owner's assessments of the book post-pressing, and any other discussion about the pressing project itself are all encouraged.

october · June 15, 2006

You the man, Tim.

Here are my results. Four of the books were mine, the fifth belongs to Blowout and I will let him post that one when he gets it back. I don't have before scans of any of them except the WW 199, but that's the only one where the defect would show up well anyway.

Before I get to the reviews, I went into this with a specific purpose. I chose four books with four distinct types of defects. I wanted to see how pressing affected all of them. One had a spine roll, another had stacking damage, one had moisture warping, and one had a deep NCB dent. The results were a mixed bag, but still promising enough for me to send in one more, the SHSL 1 that I bought from Rahigh. It has deep pen dents on the front cover. I will post that one when I get it back.

X-Men 65

Grade before: 5.0

Grade after: 7.5

This book had severe stacking/storage bends that didn't break color to the upper left and lower right corners. The pressing didn't totally remove them, and the upper left warping is still noticable, but both were greatly reduced. The lower left corner especially shows significant improvement. Worth having pressed? Not at this dollar amount, but for a more expensive book with identical defects....absolutely. Possible to tell that it has been pressed? No.

Wonder Woman 199

Grade before: 8.0

Grade after: 9.0/9.2

This is just a great looking copy, but it had an unfortunate paperclip dent on the top staple. The pressing didn't totally remove it, but it reduced it to the point where it's no longer distracting. Worth having pressed? Yes. Possible to tell it has been pressed? No.

House of Secrets 94

Grade before: 8.5

Grade after: 8.5

This book had some light moisture rippling to the back bottom edge from distributor overspray. To be fair, I wasn't expecting this book to improve in grade, I just wanted to see what pressing would do to that type of defect. The edge is pretty flat now, and the former rippling is just BARELY noticable under raking light. Worth having pressed? Not for this book, but it would be for a book with the same defect. Possible to tell it has been pressed? Yes, if you know bronze books cold. The two printers creases on the front are now flat, and anyone who has a bronze book with these knows that they are always raised a bit. Subtle, but still a tell.

Phantom Stranger 13

Grade before: 7.0

Grade after: 7.0

This one surprised me. This copy had (and has) a slight spine roll that I though a pressing would make quick work of. I got it back in the exact same shape I sent it in. No change at all. I actually emailed Matt to make sure this one hadn't been overlooked, but he assured me it had been pressed. I still think it may have been an oversight. Worth having pressed? No. Possible to tell it has been pressed? No.

tth2 · June 15, 2006

Here's Matt's original post in the other thread, to help establish the background of the project.

I'm at the Philly show this weekend, but before I left I shipped the books back to the people who participated in the pressing project offered on the boards a few weeks ago. Those packages should start showing up today or Monday. I've emailed each participant a link to this thread, so some feedback should show up here soon.

As mentioned in the initial post regarding this offering, all participants' books that were submitted and pressed would be listed here. I've also made brief notes for some of the books sent in, and will comment further as the results are posted.

Boomtown

- Silver Surfer #1

- Conan #9

- Conan #23

- Avengers #57

- Super TV Heroes #1

Red Hook

- Strange Tales #125

- X-men #14

- Avengers #28

Divad

- Supergirl #1

- Witching Hour #13

- Ghost Rider #1

- Defenders #1

- Vampirella #1

Shadroch

- Spidey #100

- Avengers #117

- Flash #177

Worldsbestcomics

- Spectacular Spidey #25

- Spectacular Spidey #33

- Spidey #129 reprint

October

- Wonder Woman #199

- Phantom Stranger #13

- X-men #65

- House of Secrets #94

- Spidey #15

Darthdiesel

- Marvel Superheroes #58

- Planet of the Apes #5

- Weird Wonder Tales #16

- Chamber of Chills #23

- Rawhide Kid #133

(all 30 cent variants)

Rip

- House of Secrets #104

- X-men #125

- Tomahawk #127

Sundst1030

- Batman #202

- Detective #627

- Detective #496

The Collector

- Black Lightning #2

- Heroes Against Hunger nn

- Ghost Rider #1

Dm226

- Fantastic Four #1 record reprint

- Captain America #101

- Spidey #300

- Atom #33

- Green Lantern #64

Maxstuf

- Giant-Size X-men #1

- Classics Illustrated #64

- WDC&S #21

(the GSX #1 is finished, but the two Golden Age were done separately, and weren't finished in time for shipping this weekend.)

Bobpfef

- Little Lulu #120

- Fairy Tale Parade #4

- Whiz #32

(Again, Golden Age books that were not finished in time for shipping. Results will be posted later)

Comicdey

- Captain Marvel #51

- Whiz #56

- Planet #21

(Collin's Captain Marvel was a great press candidate, but the Whiz and Planet were actually better restoration candidates, which we have proceeded to do. I hope he posts pics of all three once they're done--particularly the Planet, which is a great candidate for tape removal and cleaning)

Six others initially on the list did not submit books within the timeframe needed for the project. So I went ahead and pressed the extra books for the guys who sent in more than three.

Overall, the kind of books that were submitted covered the gamut. I received new comics, bronze, silver, gold, low grade, high grade, good candidates, some not so good. The best candidates are the higher grades because the process is so slight, and doesn't always remove some heavier defects, like severe warping or bends. There were a few like that here.

I'll be at the forum dinner tonight in Philly...looking forward to chatting with everyone and eating some good food!

Matt Nelson

shadroch · June 15, 2006

If someone wants to lift my quotes from the other thread,feel free. I tried but it didn't work.

Ze-man · June 15, 2006

Here is a compilation of all those who posted their books in Matts pressing thread. I too would like more discussion about the books. At least they are all now in one place to be easily viewed.

Ze-

Comments from Boomtown

- Silver Surfer #1

- Conan #9

- Conan #23

- Avengers #57

- Super TV Heroes #1

Books came back yesterday but I haven't had a chance to scan them in. With the type defects the books had, I'm not sure a scan would show the difference anyway. First off, Matt was great to work with. I was constantly updated about the process & the timeline was followed exactly as he laid out. I've only had a handful of transaction on the board but this was by far the most professional of them. Many members have been trying to bait Matt into a flame war over the past few weeks & I think his professionalism in handling the situation speaks volumes. props to Matt for taking his time to educate some of us uninformed about the process.

Now to the results. Truthfully, when I got the books back I was under the impression that Matt had only pressed 3 of them. The Avengers 57 & the TV Super-Heroes #1 both look very much like the books I sent out. The Avengers 57 had some tic indentions that looked like they were made from the printing process along the spine that I was hoping would be pressed out. They are still there & the book, while possibly flatter, looks enough like the book sent that I was suprised to hear it was pressed.

The TV Super-Heroes had the most general cover wear of the 5 books. It still has some of the more identifiable non color breaking creases, although upon closer looking, I assume it has been pressed & presentation may be upgraded slightly.

Conan #9 & 23. Both of these books had subscription creases that, while non color breaking, were obvious to the eye when the book was held at an angle. Both pressed very nicely. Knowing where the crease was, I can still hold it at an angle & see the area where the problem was, but a friend who hasn't seen the books before was unable to spot the problem. I can certainly say that any higher dollar book with this type problem would benefit greatly from pressing.

Silver Surfer #1. This book had been used as a pad to write on & had writing indentions in various areas. Was disappointed in this one. Much of the indentions are still there. It has been improved but not to the degree that I was hoping for. It's possible that with the giant size & square spine that Matt couldn't apply as much pressure to this book without damage to the spine.

A mixed bag of results in my opinion. I can certainly see the benefits to pressing for certain type of problems, as the results are remarkable. I would be very, very suprised if more than 5% of the board members could pick the pressing up without previous knowledge. The books do not looked "pancaked" or "flattened". I store many of my long boxes standing on their ends, with the idea to apply pressure to books with minor waves or creases. While obviously different processes, the results are similar but magnified to the nth degree. The one that took a few days was of much greater impact than my process that takees 6 to 8 months.

Got to run. I'll post later with some closing thoughts & try to get some pics up also. Lastly, I've never had a book professionally pressed before but am not against the process.

Books and comments From Divad

TWH #13 before:

TWH #13 after:

back before:

back after:

Matt's evaluation upon receipt:

Witching Hour #13

press to 8.5 - 9.0

notes: flaring, 1/8" crease bottom corner front cover, bend mid front cover, spine wear, impact bottom edge front cover

My notes before sending:

TWH #13

4" bend down center of front cover through logo; 10-12 NCB spine bends; small crescent crease BEFC; light bending along REFC; VF 8.0 White

Analysis: Center bend still visible, although lessened (thought this would have disappeared entirely); 7-8 NCB spine bends still present; crescent crease unaffected; bend along REFC still visible, but lessened to same extent as center bend.

Notes: book is definitely flatter, but not a "pancake" by any means; there appears to be no effect to the shape of the spine or additional flaring of the pages; perhaps grade increased to 8.5

However, there is now a 3" "scratch" (or cut), dead center below the (our) left eye of the man extending from the spine to the center bend, which was not present before pressing / handling. It's very light, but quite disturbing once you focus on it.

Summary: Should have left well enough alone.

Matt's evaluation:

Ghost Rider #1

press to 6.5 - 7.0

notes: many dents cover, many spine stresses, wear bottom edge

My notes before pressing:

Universal minor surface "wrinkling" to both covers; 7 NCB bends along spine; edge rippling TEFC and BEFC; FN/VF 7.0 White

Analysis: Edge rippling and wrinkling somewhat lessened, but not appreciably; no effect on NCB spine bends; again perhaps an increase of .5 to 7.5

Summary: Not sure I would pay to have this done . . .

Book #2 - Ghost Rider #1

before pressing:

after pressing:

There appears to be a slight increase in the amount of white band along the spine above the top staple No other surprises.

Btw, my comments here (except those made to ahem, little jim) are strictly for the purpose of providing an independent analysis of the effects of pressing on the books I submitted. I have no interest in increasing the value of these books, establishing a relationship with Matt Nelson, or appealing to one side or the other on the subject of pressing books. It is well known, that I don't press books, and that I don't agree with the pressing of books. Neither do I have an "axe to grind" with those that press books. I feel you can do whatever you want to your own books . . . (just don't sell them to me as "unrestored")

I have to add (without sucking up) that Matt was quite generous with his time and resources in offering this experiment gratis. His communications were great, and he is a professional in every way, and I commend him for taking on the task for us skeptical board members.

Comments from DM226

I guess it's time to wade in here - I sent five books to Matt, and he ended up pressing all of them. I decided to lose my virginity twice in this project - one in having books pressed, and the other in submitting to CGC for the first time. Here are Matt's assessments of my books:

"Hi Dan, here are the press evaluations for your notes:

Fantastic Four #1 record reprint

press to 9.2 - 9.4

notes: slight curved indentions bottom back cover, impact top lbc with tiny 1/8" tear

Captain America #101

press to 9.4

notes: 4 spine stresses, slight flair front cover

Spidey #300

press to 9.4 - 9.6

notes: handful of tiny spine dents break color

Atom #33

press to 8.5 - 9.0

notes: sticky dirt back cover, two hole punches in back cover on "e", ding bottom spine

Green Lantern #64

press to ?

notes: crunch top and bottom spine, few spine stresses, wear corners front cover"

As you can see, I decided on a hodgepodge of different books, just to see what results could come of things. You can also see that I am losing money by sending some to CGC (as the books aren't even worth the grading fee), but I am interested in seeing where my grading fits into things, too. I will let you know the results of the grading, and the results of the pressing (by comparing more specific defects) when I get them back.

For those of you who are concerned with disclosure issues, all five books will go back into my personal collection. If I decide to sell them at anytime in the future, I will disclose that I had them professionally pressed. Regards,

Dan

Comments from Worldsbestcomics

I received my three books back today. I've posted Matt's notes along with my assessment. The results were mixed, as you will see below. This is my first experience with pressing so I didn't know what to expect. In general, I will say that the appearance of the books was not "crushed" as some had told me to expect. I have compared the thickness of these books to books from the same era that have been kept in bags, boards, and boxes and I can't tell any difference. I also see no change in staple coloration or any staple pulls on any of the books.

I will say that Matt's customer service was top-notch. He kept me informed at every step in the process and followed through on every promise. Say what you will about what he does, his professionalism is unimpeachable in my book.

All three books will now go into long-term storage with labels that read:

These books have been professionally pressed by:

Matt Nelson, Classics Incorporated

1440 Halsey Way #114

Carrollton, TX 75007

www.classicsincorporated.com

So that in the event of my untimely demise my heirs cannot be accused of unfairly profiting from failing to disclose that the books were pressed But, if I'm still kicking then I will post any discoloration or unusual staple rust that might be associated with the pressing process.

Spec Spidey #25

Matt's notes:

press to 7.5 - 8.0

notes: dirt back cover, light gloss loss spine back cover, crunch bottom spine, wear top/bottom corners fc

My assessment:

I picked this book because it was bronze-age and because I was trying to make lemonade out of a lemon. I bought this book from eBay seller cgc*comics who advertised it as mint 10.0. He was a jerk and the book was clearly not mint but that made it a great candidate for this experiment.

The book had non-color-breaking impact on top left and bottom left corners. The top and right edges of the front cover had noncolor-breaking bends. After pressing, the top-left and bottom-left corners are flat but still show visual signs of previous impact. The noncolor-breaking bends on the top and right edges are no longer visible. I believe that this book would grade 0.5 grade higher after pressing.

Spec Spidey #33

Matt's notes:

press to 7.5 - 8.0

notes: long diag bend back cover, heavy dent mid top cover, 3 spine stress, wear bottom right corner front cover

My assessment:

This was another bronze book from eBay scammer cgc*comics that was sold as "mint" and that I thought would be great for an experiment because it had several types of flaws common to upper-mid-grade bronze books.

The book had a deep non-color-breaking dent on the left arm of the letter “V” in the Marvel Comics Group banner. The book had a color-breaking stress mark about 2/3 of the way up the front spine. The book had several areas of fold on the bottom edge of the front cover and a color-breaking bend on the front bottom corner. The rear cover had a large noncolor-breaking fold of the top right corner that includes about half the interior pages. After pressing, the dent is largely, but not completely, removed. The folds along the bottom edge have been entirely removed. The color-breaking bend on the bottom-front corner has been flattened but of course, the color break remains. The large noncolor-breaking fold similar to a subscription fold has been entirely removed including all interior pages. I believe that this book would grade at least one full grade higher after pressing.

Spidey #129 reprint

Matt's notes:

press to 9.2

notes: 10 dents spine back cover

My assessment:

I picked this comic because it was a modern book with a number of noncolor-breaking stress marks on the spine. I thought that this type of flaw could be removed by pressing but there was no noticeable change. I would grade the book at 9.2 before and after pressing.

Comments from The Collector

I got my books back from matt today. They all showed a drematic improvement. The Ghost Rider saw a large if not complete decrease in the non color breaking spine stress aswell as an increased flatness. The Black lighting Just had an over all better appearance ( I can't pin point one thing It just looked better over all) The defect I was looking to remove on heroes against hunger was almost entirely if not entirely removed. Over all matt did a great job. Plus his professionalism is unmatched. I will be dropping more books to him for pressing. For those people who say pressing is a for profit thing think about this it cost 25.00 plus shipping to have matt press a book. Then if it gets graded it will cost anywhere from 16.00 to 50.00 plus shipping to get it graded. Then you have to sell it so if you go ebay they get listing and final value fees (the higher the final value the higher the fee) Comiclink and heritage also charge fees to sell your item ( once again the more it sells for the more they get) If you have your own site you have to pay to keep it up. Plus there is the cost of purchasing the book. Now add all that up and see if you still feel the same way.

--------------------

Coments from Shad

I recieved my books last week,and forgot to comment on them.
Spidey 100-bought off ebay as a VF+. Book looks real nice in a mylar,but when examined has a moisture wave thru the front cover.Pressing took out some,but not most of the wave.I'd say a slight improvement.

Flash?- book had a severe fold in it,like someone stuck it in a back pocket for several years. I'd previously had it under glass under my 36 inch TV for almost a year before I sent it to Matt.His pressing was ten times more effective than my experiment,but the fold(non-color breaking,for the most part)is still visable.

Avengers 117- bought from a forumite as a NM. Many,many little nicks and depressions. Pressing took out about half.

Overall,I was disappointed in the improvement of these books,but am happy with the experiment because I now have first hand knowledge that pressing is not the WD-40 of comics.I followed Matts guidelines and sent books that seemed to be perfect candidates.

Comments from Mat, resto

Actually, both Darthdiesel and Red Hook submitted CGC books--I forgot to list that information on the original post. So we will get to see how a few come back.

Darth

Weird Wonder Tales #16 CGC 7.5 (press to 9.0 - 9.2)

Chamber of Chills #23 CGC 4.5 (press to 5.0 - 5.5)

Rawhide Kid #133 CGC 5.0 (press to 5.5)

The Rawhide and Chamber were both very marginal candidates. I think my evaluations may have been liberal. The Weird Wonder Tales was much nicer. There were some very light vertical bends near the spine of the front cover that will determine how well it does. After it was finished, I felt that it may grade slightly lower than my first estimate, maybe 8.5 to 9.0. But still a nice upgrade for such a tough book.

Red Hook

Avengers #28 CGC 9.4 (no estimate)

I think Brad has mentioned this book on the boards before. There was a slight bump to the overhang from the CGC case that needed smoothing out. I don't think it had a shot at 9.6, but you never know.

Yes, this is absolutely true. The books submitted for this project certainly reflects that. Shadroch's comics are a good example. I thought the Spidey #100 was a great press candidate because the wave near the bottom edge was slight enough for pressing, but the Flash #177 had a massive fold through the middle, which I knew would never lie flat with a pressing. The Avengers #117 was in between these two books; it had several dents and stresses in the cover--enough to show the press results, but too many to completely remove. The book was originally in the 4.0 - 5.0 range, which is considerably lower than grades recommended for pressing.

I thought DM226's books were nice candidates. Those were sent off to CGC along with Darth's. Boomtown's were nice too, except for the Hanna Barbara and the Conan #9, which were both lower grade.

Redhooks comments and photos

I posted the Avengers 28 earlier with comments but the post disappeared. I'll do it again....

Here is the original slab..... Avengers Pacific Coast (Matt, send me back the label please - when you get a chance!) #28 9.4 CGC.

Slab damage to top and lesser to bottom. Front and back. Only have scan of the front before.....

Matt's notes to me on the book were simple........

"Avengers #28 Pacific Coast

notes: repair overhang bump top front cover and bottom back cover"

I had considered for a while seeking out someone to eventually press out the slab damage....it really bothered me.....

Here are scans of the book as it was broken out of the slab by Matt and received localized ND pressing. Not having held the book raw before I could not say that the book looks any flatter, it shouldn't have anyway.......I figured the book was probably pressed before it made it into the slab the first time.

Obviously, Matt did a great job of making the slab damage disappear. If I were looking at the book in a mylar for the first time, it would be hard to detect anything. The only thing that might make me look twice would be the extremely sharp edges resulting. But if the dealer told me it wasn't pressed, I'd have to rely on my instincts.

I'm not sure if I'll reslab it or not...I kinda like having it raw. I can actually page through it. I don't know if it would even garner a 9.4 again.....it has some upper corner creases that break color. No way is it a 9.6 imho.

If I sold it either raw or slabbed, I would make sure to include the information about what work was done on it, and by whom. I have to think that if you are going to consider localized pressing to correct slab damage as restoration...then it falls in the low range of impacting the book. In this case, I don't believe pressing would have pushed this book to a higher grade, but it did correct the disturbing damage done in the slab.

Red

Here's the back......

One other note......I observed that the book does have a slight overhang.....not enough apparently for CGC to reject it for slabbing....but it definitely made it vulnerable in the slab.

I'll post the other two books I received back from Matt as time allows.

Octobers photos and comments.again

Here are my results. Four of the books were mine, the fifth belongs to Blowout and I will let him post that one when he gets it back. I don't have before scans of any of them except the WW 199, but that's the only one where the defect would show up well anyway.

Before I get to the reviews, I went into this with a specific purpose. I chose four books with four distinct types of defects. I wanted to see how pressing affected all of them. One had a spine roll, another had stacking damage, one had moisture warping, and one had a deep NCB dent. The results were a mixed bag, but still promising enough for me to send in one more, the SHSL 1 that I bought from Rahigh. It has deep pen dents on the front cover. I will post that one when I get it back.

X-Men 65

Grade before: 5.0

Grade after: 7.5

This book had severe stacking/storage bends that didn't break color to the upper left and lower right corners. The pressing didn't totally remove them, and the upper left warping is still noticable, but both were greatly reduced. The lower left corner especially shows significant improvement. Worth having pressed? Not at this dollar amount, but for a more expensive book with identical defects....absolutely. Possible to tell that it has been pressed? No.

Wonder Woman 199

Grade before: 8.0

Grade after: 9.0/9.2

This is just a great looking copy, but it had an unfortunate paperclip dent on the top staple. The pressing didn't totally remove it, but it reduced it to the point where it's no longer distracting. Worth having pressed? Yes. Possible to tell it has been pressed? No.

House of Secrets 94

Grade before: 8.5

Grade after: 8.5

This book had some light moisture rippling to the back bottom edge from distributor overspray. To be fair, I wasn't expecting this book to improve in grade, I just wanted to see what pressing would do to that type of defect. The edge is pretty flat now, and the former rippling is just BARELY noticable under raking light. Worth having pressed? Not for this book, but it would be for a book with the same defect. Possible to tell it has been pressed? Yes, if you know bronze books cold. The two printers creases on the front are now flat, and anyone who has a bronze book with these knows that they are always raised a bit. Subtle, but still a tell.

Phantom Stranger 13

Grade before: 7.0

Grade after: 7.0

This one surprised me. This copy had (and has) a slight spine roll that I though a pressing would make quick work of. I got it back in the exact same shape I sent it in. No change at all. I actually emailed Matt to make sure this one hadn't been overlooked, but he assured me it had been pressed. I still think it may have been an oversight. Worth having pressed? No. Possible to tell it has been pressed? No.

Some comments from Matt

The pressings were certainly gentle and non-invasive, but let me point out that all of these books went through the same exact process that the others do. Many of the books submitted for this project were simply not the best candidates, given the severity of their defects. If I were submitted these books during the regular course of business, I would reject 80-90% of them on structure alone.

And where's the scan of the Strange Tales? That book was a mangled mess, and it made some very significant improvements, and went through the same exact process as the Avengers. Please post the before/after scans when you get the chance.

This is absolutely true. All the pressing in the world won't help a book if it has the wrong defects. It's all about proper screening and cost/benefit analysis. The consulting I do for my clients is the central part of my business, not pressing. When someone approaches me with the plan to buy or sell, there are several tools at our disposal, including screening, pressing, restoration, certification, auction houses, private sales, and short and long term invesment consulting. (my sales pitch, thank you)

The point is, pressing alone will not make you rich. It's simply one of many tools to get you where you're going.

Comments from Comicdey

Matt,

When this is all done, and everyone has posted their before and after, please provide additional commentary on the books as to why you believe they were good, or bad candidates for pressing etc. Then the board masses can use it as a tool to determine what types of damage can be fully eradicated, partially removed, or just flattened and still apparent. Also, please indicate if other pressing techniques that you are aware of might produce a different effect (wet, dry, chemical etc.) and whether dissassembly would have dramatically increased the press job that you performed. (I'm not asking blue or purple here, just aesthetically what the overall effect will be).

Obviously the 4.0 to 9.0 example is an extreme on (Boy 11? wasn't it) where the staple was re-attached, probably minor dry cleaned and then pressed.....I'm just guessing here and going off of memory on this as it's all what I've read on the boards from others posts.

Thanks

Collin

Photos and comments from Redhook

Matt....I have to rush off (to dinner with Lady Redhook) but I did a quick scan of the Strange Tales......and I agree with you....this books showed a significant cosmetic improvement. After getting bruised with my last set of submissions to CGC....I can't say how much of a jump in grade the pressing would garner this......fell free to add your own comments....I'll add more when I get back.

Brad

This is the original scan of the front...followed by the a scan of the "after" process.

Here's the 125 as it came back......nice!

Back of the book, which in Matt's words was "mangled".

After scan.......

Commentes from rjpb

Matt's evaluation upon receipt:

Witching Hour #13

press to 8.5 - 9.0

notes: flaring, 1/8" crease bottom corner front cover, bend mid front cover, spine wear, impact bottom edge front cover

My notes before sending:

TWH #13

4" bend down center of front cover through logo; 10-12 NCB spine bends; small crescent crease BEFC; light bending along REFC; VF 8.0 White

Analysis: Center bend still visible, although lessened (thought this would have disappeared entirely); 7-8 NCB spine bends still present; crescent crease unaffected; bend along REFC still visible, but lessened to same extent as center bend.

Notes: book is definitely flatter, but not a "pancake" by any means; there appears to be no effect to the shape of the spine or additional flaring of the pages; perhaps grade increased to 8.5

However, there is now a 3" "scratch" (or cut), dead center below the (our) left eye of the man extending from the spine to the center bend, which was not present before pressing / handling. It's very light, but quite disturbing once you focus on it.

Summary: Should have left well enough alone.

I just recieved this book from David - I agree, a possible 8.5 even with the scratch - which can only be seen at certain angles - not really that bad. While the other flaws are present - I have to believe the eye-appeal was increased by pressing (though I didn't see it before hand). It also has nice PQ - Thanks David

Personally - I don't care if a book has been pressed, though as long as it is controversial, I think it should be disclosed. I'm also not the type of collector who pays multiples for .2 increases in grade, if I was, I'd probably care more.

comments and photos from svndst

Ok I will post my results finally.

Here are Matt's notes.

Batman #202
press to 7.0 - 7.5

notes: stain in tombstone, edge and spine wear

Detective #627

press to 9.4

notes: 7 tiny spine stress, vein spine back cover

Detective #496

press to 9.4 - 9.6

notes: six spine stress

Batman 202

Like all of the books I submitted, this book had quite a few ncbc. You cannot tell on any of the books that they were pressed. I held this book against a Batman 200 that came from the same collection and there was no visible differance.

Detective 627

Not much to say about this one. All of the creases are gone and it looks a lot better than it did before.

Detective 496

Same as all the others. The book is not a pancake like some have suggested.

None of my books were high dollar books. Hell I don't have that many high dollar books but Matt was a complete professional through out the process and he was a pleasue to deal with. He kept us informed at all the different stages. I want to say thank you to Matt for allowing me to take part in this experiment because it was a real eye opener. I went into this thinking that my book would be flattened and that I would be able to tell it had been pressed. I will try to get some after scans but while you are waiting for those here is a before scan of the 202.

Comments and photos from Darth

Actually, both Darthdiesel and Red Hook submitted CGC books--I forgot to list that information on the original post. So we will get to see how a few come back.

Darth

Weird Wonder Tales #16 CGC 7.5 (press to 9.0 - 9.2)

Chamber of Chills #23 CGC 4.5 (press to 5.0 - 5.5)

Rawhide Kid #133 CGC 5.0 (press to 5.5)

The Rawhide and Chamber were both very marginal candidates. I think my evaluations may have been liberal. The Weird Wonder Tales was much nicer. There were some very light vertical bends near the spine of the front cover that will determine how well it does. After it was finished, I felt that it may grade slightly lower than my first estimate, maybe 8.5 to 9.0. But still a nice upgrade for such a tough book.

All 30 centers...

Adventure on the POTA 5:

Marvel SuperHeroes 58:

Chamber of Chills 23 CGC 4.5:

Rawhide Kid 133 CGC 5.0:

Weird Wonder Tales 16 CGC 7.5:

I have to re-upload the scans of the slabs....will fix in a moment...

Red Hook · June 15, 2006

Thanks Ze.....been busy this morning. That helps alot!

Red

tth2 · June 15, 2006

Wow! Thanks Kenny!

Inhuman Fiend · June 17, 2006

Thanks for starting a separate thread for those of us who want to analyze the results... and nothing more! But someone please help me...I have heard Matt refer many times to defects that are ideal for improvement by pressing, and those that are not...but I have yet to see those spelled out for us! Is there a list somewhere here or on his website of problems that are best (or not) for improvement?

awe4one · June 17, 2006

Thanks for starting a separate thread for those of us who want to analyze the results... and nothing more! But someone please help me...I have heard Matt refer many times to defects that are ideal for improvement by pressing, and those that are not...but I have yet to see those spelled out for us! Is there a list somewhere here or on his website of problems that are best (or not) for improvement?

I asked the question of Matt and never got an answer...

Jim

Darthdiesel · June 17, 2006

This was posted in a thread in Comics general Monday 4/24/06:

Matt Nelson

To help in finding good candidates that will reflect the results of pressing, I've outlined some pointers below.

1) The #1 rule is to find dents, bends and folds that do not break color. Common areas that are affected are corners, particularly when a book has been dropped and a corner impact has occurred through the entire book. Spine stresses that don't break color is another one. Tilt your book in the light to where the entire cover is reflecting the light. Any surface dents will appear using this method.

2) Spine rolls are good too, but results on these vary. Because staples are not removed during the process, great care must be taken, which can lead to uneven results depending on the severity of the spine roll. Page quality, location of the staples, age of the book, and the publisher are all factors. I suggest sticking only to light spine rolls for this project.

3) The best grade range for the project is VF 8.0 to VF/NM 9.0. Anything better will likely not have many fixable defects. Really high grade books with one major defect are okay too (like a VF book with a spine roll, or a heavy wave or bend).

4) Comics from any age (Gold, Silver, Bronze, Modern) can be submitted, but there are certain types that do not press as well as others. They are too numerous to list here, but if you stick to the basic issues (regular size) you'll be okay. Squarebounds can be pressed, but their potential is limited by the glued spine and thicker covers. Magazines are fine.

5) Most restored comics press well (and usually need it), but for this project, it would be best to stick to unrestored comics. If you know your comic has been previously pressed, don't send that. Pressing comics twice is not a good idea.

6) CGC comics are fine, but I won't be responsible for grading fees on any books that we crack out for the project. I will not crack out any unless they are being pressed.

I read this post by Matt and for a person who has not been involved in the chasing HG books aspect of the hobby much longer than 7 years, it's mostly common sense stuff or things I've known, looked for and heard and picked up from other older HG collectors IOW, none of this above should be a real shocker to anyone who collects High Grade, IMO.

Inhuman Fiend · June 17, 2006

Thanks Darth!

drbanner · June 17, 2006

Thanks Tim (and Kenny)!

A few more notes I picked up amongst the carnage in the original thread were that:

- Matt indicated that ~80-90% of the submitted books were not good candidates for pressing, and in the real world (i.e., the work was not free), he would not recommend the service on those books;

- Matt gave every book the "full monty" to improve them, and they received the same treatment he would give for his paying customers;

- There was some concern about Matt's pointers and his comment that "Pressing comics twice is not a good idea." Matt indicated that it would not be worth getting a book pressed more than once as any benefit to be gained by pressing would be accomplished the first go-round (it wouldn't be worth it from a $ perspective); and

- GA books seem to be more amenable to significant improvement through pressing.

Also, from the participant comments, it appears that the pressing would not be detectable without prior knowledge of the books' condition. Any other participants have any comments on their results?

Red Hook · June 17, 2006

Yep....I believe, in the deepest little cockles of my heart, that if I had asked Matt to remove the spine stress marks, he could and would have done it...assuming I was a paying customer.

Make, note...I'm not asking him to. But knowing his abilities, I think he could have done it in his sleep. And that includes the disassembly and staple removal and replacement necessary to do it.

That's neither a condemnation or a request. Just my opinion.

Red

drbanner · June 17, 2006

Do those spine stresses break the color?

Red Hook · June 17, 2006

Nope.

If they did, they obviously wouldn't be worth attending to.

tth2 · June 18, 2006

Yep....I believe, in the deepest little cockles of my heart, that if I had asked Matt to remove the spine stress marks, he could and would have done it...assuming I was a paying customer.

Make, note...I'm not asking him to. But knowing his abilities, I think he could have done it in his sleep. And that includes the disassembly and staple removal and replacement necessary to do it.

If you`re so convinced of this, why don`t you get someone to help you set up a real test? Have a third party submit a book with similar spine stresses as a paying customer and see how it turns out. Hell, I`ll even pick up the fee. If Matt is as diligent with a paying customer as you think he`ll be, and the book truly improves, then you`ll have a significantly improved book for free. If the book doesn`t improve, just like your other book, then you pay me back. Deal?

The fact is I would be shocked if he would disassemble a book to press without the client`s approval. Suppose he didn`t get it just right and CGC picked up the disassembly and PLOD-ed the book, thus destroying the value of the book? How could he possibly explain taking unauthorized action on someone`s book?

Red Hook · June 18, 2006

Who said he'd do it without the clients okay?

tth2 · June 18, 2006

Who said he'd do it without the clients okay?

Fine, let`s do the mystery shopper thing and see:

1. whether Matt, contra to his statement, will do disassembly for pressing only

2. if this disassembled pressing will remove all the spine NCB creases and

3. if CGC can detect the disassembly

Red Hook · June 18, 2006

Who said he'd do it without the clients okay?

Fine, let`s do the mystery shopper thing and see:

1. whether Matt, contra to his statement, will do disassembly for pressing only

2. if this disassembled pressing will remove all the spine NCB creases and

3. if CGC can detect the disassembly

We've come all this way, and you still think any of the items on your list are in question?

tth2 · June 19, 2006

Who said he'd do it without the clients okay?

Fine, let`s do the mystery shopper thing and see:

1. whether Matt, contra to his statement, will do disassembly for pressing only

2. if this disassembled pressing will remove all the spine NCB creases and

3. if CGC can detect the disassembly

We've come all this way, and you still think any of the items on your list are in question?

What's wrong with a little definitive proof? I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

Archived

The New Pressing Project Results Thread

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