Civil War Art - Speculation and Spoiler Warnings

[Spider-Variant]

Ok, was browsing the Artist's Choice (who I have always had good dealings with) and found this.

 

Steve McNiven Civil War #2 Art

 

These Pages are not priced and are available by OFFER ONLY. PLEASE NOTE: DUE TO THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THE STORY AND ARTWORK, YOUR OFFER SHOULD BE OVER $7,500 ON PAGES 20, 21, AND 22 (Combined bids for these pages will be considered if they are in this range). THIS ART IS HISTORIC AND WE ARE WELL AWARE THAT THE PRICES BEING ASKED ARE WELL ABOVE INDUSTRY ORIGINAL ART PRICES. IF THEY DO NOT SELL, MR. McNIVEN WOULD BE JUST AS HAPPY TO KEEP THE ART FOR HIS FAMILY.

 

Well, firstly I can't afford the $7500. But I think this would be a giant financial risk if I could. Sure, today, Spider-Man's revelation is making news, but one year from now, will anyone remember Civil War? Will it have been retconned away?

 

Yes, I will admit the black costume lasted longer than I thought and I'm sure the cover for ASM 252 is worth substainally more than covers around it, but will anyone really throw down $7500 to grab these?

 

Interested in thoughts and stories of others that have bought pages for pure speculation (more on the line that you thought the page was historic and not that you thought a particular artist's work would increase in value).

[blowout]

 

Yes, I will admit the black costume lasted longer than I thought and I'm sure the cover for ASM 252 is worth substainally more than covers around it, but will anyone really throw down $7500 to grab these?

 

In my view these prices are insane for art with absolutely no track record in the marketplace.

[SignatureSelect]

maybe it is time for me to sell my mcniven cap prelim. I am sure at my 10 dollar investment I can turn it for triple.

[mrpunch0]

I'd love to have those pages. (I'm a JJJ fan.)

But $7500? Not a chance. Even if I had the money to burn.

[comicartfan]

Completely

[spider9698]

Reminds me when the Death of Superman pages sold for STOOPID money when the storyline was big news. Crazy money if you ask me.

[comicartfan]

I have to wonder about constitutes "historical". I was under the impression that something was really only historical when time passes and the true impact of the event or situation is realized. For an artist or writer to sit down and decide "We are going to "XYZ" and this will be "historical" and the comics/art on the secondary market will be worth $$$ seems a little silly. - If this happens, which is what I am thinking this is, then this is creating the same mentality of those "variant collector's items" covers that are now in the quarter bins.....

[comicartfan]

Reminds me when the Death of Superman pages sold for STOOPID money when the storyline was big news. Crazy money if you ask me

 

Reminds of the time that I traded the family cow for those "magic beans"....

 

 

I'll never do that again !

[blowout]

I have to wonder about constitutes "historical". I was under the impression that something was really only historical when time passes and the true impact of the event or situation is realized. For an artist or writer to sit down and decide "We are going to "XYZ" and this will be "historical" and the comics/art on the secondary market will be worth $$$ seems a little silly. - If this happens, which is what I am thinking this is, then this is creating the same mentality of those "variant collector's items" covers that are now in the quarter bins.....

 

You are absolutely right, there is nothing 'historic' about something that only just happened. Especially where Marvel is concerned.

[Ares]

Reminds me when the Death of Superman pages sold for STOOPID money when the storyline was big news. Crazy money if you ask me

 

Reminds of the time that I traded the family cow for those "magic beans"....

 

 

I'll never do that again !

The cow made great burgers

[comix4fun]

I don't think Steve is pricing the pages with an eye towards the market. I think Steve wants to keep these pages unless he gets some insane offer, and has set the floor for the insanity. That was what I got from the way the offering was worded.

 

Since the last page from the story has already sold, there is at least one person who did not mind the pricing, even though I have a feeling Steve would have been very happy if everyone had just passed on these pages. The next best thing is getting 1/2 way to a camry with one page.

 

Chris

[comicartfan]

You are absolutely right

[comix4fun]

You are absolutely right, there is nothing 'historic' about something that only just happened.

 

 

I just emailed Spencer asking him specifically what he meant by that, I had the same question.

 

His response: "The sequence is historic because this is something that has never been done in the over 40 year history of the character.".."We at the artist's choice do not believe that the pages will change the world or cure disease, it is historic for what has come before and not what will follow after."

 

As for why they were posted at all: "The artist did not want to sell the pages at all, but did not want to deal with either unsolicited offers when the pages were not listed for sale, or questions about the availability of the pages if they were not listed at all. Therefore they were listed with incredibly high prices that would both quell the amount of questions and limit the inquiries to those willing to meet the price at which Steve would be willing to let them go."

 

That helps my understanding.

 

 

Chris

[spider9698]

Translation: STOOPID MONEY OFFERS only!

[comicartfan]

"The sequence is historic because this is something that has never been done in the over 40 year history of the character.".."

 

I disagree. There are alot of events that happen for the first time in a character's history, but not all of them are historical or warrant the aggressive prices we are seeing. While Steve and Spencer are free to charge what they want, just like I am free to "not buy them", I think this is just manufactured hype and nothing more. This isn't "historical" just because it's never been done. In Batman 497, they had Bane break Batman's back. A big event. Not historical. Robin's first appearance in Det 38 is historical. MJ's first appearance at the last page of ASM 42 is historical.

Death of Superman was "historical", (it had never been done before to the blue boy scout) but now that time has passed, it's looked upon as a mistake. and silly.....

 

I think Marvel has really been pushing it audience away and the more "gimmicks" they leash upon us (readers and collectors) , the more they will lose. Marvel & DC need to reassess these events (Civil War, 52, Crisis ) and really use them for good, not evil. I understand the need to maintain and recruit readers. People get bored, they will go elsewhere. I am just saying, too much of a good thing....I myself prefer "stories" over universe changing books. Stories like Long Halloween, Hush, Hulk : Return of the monster, etc....are what keeps me interested. Course, I am a casual reader, only picking up trades at shows. When they start with continuty and changing all the rules, I get lost.

 

it is historic for what has come before and not what will follow after."

Doesn't change my opinion. - I stick with my post above.

 

 

Michael -

[micmack]

I don't think Steve is pricing the pages with an eye towards the market. I think Steve wants to keep these pages unless he gets some insane offer, and has set the floor for the insanity. That was what I got from the way the offering was worded.

 

Since the last page from the story has already sold, there is at least one person who did not mind the pricing, even though I have a feeling Steve would have been very happy if everyone had just passed on these pages. The next best thing is getting 1/2 way to a camry with one page.

 

Chris

 

Hey Chris, where did you hear that the last page was sold? I saw the site the moment it was posted and was already listed as Not Available. Did Spencer tell you as such? Just curious...

Chris

[-cryptkeeper-]

i can understand that pg 21 and 22 can be seen as "historic" but 20

[comix4fun]

Hey Chris, where did you hear that the last page was sold? I saw the site the moment it was posted and was already listed as Not Available. Did Spencer tell you as such? Just curious...

Chris

 

 

 

Yeah it is sold.

I asked about that. He said that it was sold that morning when the page was shown in the New York Post. Steve wanted to keep the pages, but he got an offer he could not refuse. Someone contacted Spencer before the pages could even be posted and threw a large enough number at Steve that he could not say no. The pricing was going to be pretty much, STOOPID MONEY ONLY, and someone stepped up on day one and said before the price could even be set or the pages offered out.

 

I have seen artists do this with pages that they would like to keep but that there is great demand for. Ask a huge number and if no one takes it you get to keep it, if someone takes it they can hardly feel bad with what they got for it.

 

In this case the price was set by the buyer before the artist could even put the pages up for sale with a number. So I guess the buyer set the bar before the seller ever did.

 

As for whether or not this is an historic event, this is something that has never happened to Spidey before, he has never voluntarily shown his secret identity to the world. So in that sense it is historic. However, this event will have to continue and not be wiped by Dr. Strange, or shown as a dream sequence ala Bobby in the shower on Dallas, to remain historic. The spidey-reveal is historic right now because of what has come before, but it will only continue to be referenced that way if it matters in the future. Which is why Bane and Doomsday are sad footnotes in history instead of historic events. DC found a way to make those events irrelevant and thus prevented those events from being historic in the long run.

 

 

Chris

[micmack]

Thanks Chris.

 

I have no problem with either calling this an historic event or that Steve put up "stoopid money" figures on those pages. He has every right to do so and I applaude him for at least explaining it to the public.

[Spider-Variant]

All right, great discussion with some further clarification added.

 

I'm in agreement with MicMack. Good for Steve. He wanted to keep them, but if someone wants to give him crazy money, he'll part with them. Additionally, he doesn't have to deal with countless offers. You want them, go crazy.

 

Now, hopefully whoever got the page 23 has money to burn. In a few years, Civil War will be a distant memory.