Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[skybolt]

Funny story regarding this whole Gilgamesh / Superhero thing. When the Hulk movie came out a few years ago, an Assyrian committee of some sort was trying to sue Marvel and the movie studio for several million dollars. Apparently, some of the ancient stories/poems noted Gilgamesh as being green and powerful. Even as an Assyrian myself, I thought the whole thing was bogus and a weak attempt at a money grab.

[buttock]

Funny story regarding this whole Gilgamesh / Superhero thing. When the Hulk movie came out a few years ago, an Assyrian committee of some sort was trying to sue Marvel and the movie studio for several million dollars. Apparently, some of the ancient stories/poems noted Gilgamesh as being green and powerful. Even as an Assyrian myself, I thought the whole thing was bogus and a weak attempt at a money grab.

 

What a bunch of Assyrianholes

 

 

 

 

Oh come on, I couldn't resist.

[skybolt]

Funny story regarding this whole Gilgamesh / Superhero thing. When the Hulk movie came out a few years ago, an Assyrian committee of some sort was trying to sue Marvel and the movie studio for several million dollars. Apparently, some of the ancient stories/poems noted Gilgamesh as being green and powerful. Even as an Assyrian myself, I thought the whole thing was bogus and a weak attempt at a money grab.

 

What a bunch of Assyrianholes

 

 

 

 

Oh come on, I couldn't resist.

 

I'll let it go this one time.

[selegue]

Funny story regarding this whole Gilgamesh / Superhero thing. When the Hulk movie came out a few years ago, an Assyrian committee of some sort was trying to sue Marvel and the movie studio for several million dollars. Apparently, some of the ancient stories/poems noted Gilgamesh as being green and powerful. Even as an Assyrian myself, I thought the whole thing was bogus and a weak attempt at a money grab.

 

Assyrian? I thought he was Eye-talian!

 

 

I wonder whether Hurk ever faced off against the Reader.

 

Jack

[showcase4]

[quote

But even if you could be more convincing about Obadiah place in history you'll have an even tougher time convincing MANY about the monetary value.

 

OK.....let's address the monetary value for a moment. Within the past 2 hours, an Obadiah Oldbuck american REPRINT was listed in the Platinum Age section on Ebay. Obadiah was printed for over 60 years in the US, with only a handful of the 1st printings known to exist ( for those of you who have knowledge of rare book collecting, it's all about the 1st printing.....reprints are often valued at pennies on the dollar, as is the case with the Brother Jonathan Oldbuck. The 3 copies sold year for a collective $50,000 were all 1st printings)

 

Since this is a new listing, and I will not be the buyer or seller when it's all done, let's just use this as a test case for market demand, and a gauge of pricing ---remember, pennies on the dollar since it's a reprint.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1ST-USA-COMIC-THE-AD...1QQcmdZViewItem

[infinite_comics-migration]

But even if you could be more convincing about Obadiah place in history you'll have an even tougher time convincing MANY about the monetary value.

 

OK.....let's address the monetary value for a moment. Within the past 2 hours, an Obadiah Oldbuck american REPRINT was listed in the Platinum Age section on Ebay. Obadiah was printed for over 60 years in the US, with only a handful of the 1st printings known to exist ( for those of you who have knowledge of rare book collecting, it's all about the 1st printing.....reprints are often valued at pennies on the dollar, as is the case with the Brother Jonathan Oldbuck. The 3 copies sold year for a collective $50,000 were all 1st printings)

 

Since this is a new listing, and I will not be the buyer or seller when it's all done, let's just use this as a test case for market demand, and a gauge of pricing ---remember, pennies on the dollar since it's a reprint.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1ST-USA-COMIC-THE-AD...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

You've already bid on it - you plan to keep shilling it up?

And please learn how to use the "quote" function.

[showcase4]

But even if you could be more convincing about Obadiah place in history you'll have an even tougher time convincing MANY about the monetary value.

 

OK.....let's address the monetary value for a moment. Within the past 2 hours, an Obadiah Oldbuck american REPRINT was listed in the Platinum Age section on Ebay. Obadiah was printed for over 60 years in the US, with only a handful of the 1st printings known to exist ( for those of you who have knowledge of rare book collecting, it's all about the 1st printing.....reprints are often valued at pennies on the dollar, as is the case with the Brother Jonathan Oldbuck. The 3 copies sold year for a collective $50,000 were all 1st printings)

 

Since this is a new listing, and I will not be the buyer or seller when it's all done, let's just use this as a test case for market demand, and a gauge of pricing ---remember, pennies on the dollar since it's a reprint.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1ST-USA-COMIC-THE-AD...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

You've already bid on it - you plan to keep shilling it up?

And please learn how to use the "quote" function.

 

 

for low IQ Board members I have low patience. I placed a single, low dollar bid beacuse I wouldn't risk losing the book to prove a point. There is no "shill" about my Ebay bidding.....check my feedback Mr. half-brain. Like I said, when this auction is over, I will not be the high bidder.

[ciorac]

If Superman had not come along, there would still have been a comic book industry. It was already "there" before the advent of Superman who facilitated a Big Bang, speeding up the process. Popular Heroes were still emerging before and after Superman.

 

As stated in a previous post, one could also add in Mickey Mouse, Tracy, while we're at it, Alley Oop, Brick Bradford, Red Barry, Felix the Cat, Donald Duck, and many many other comic strips which were being released. Once Popeye hit Thimble Theatre in 1929, he unleashed a wave of licensed products. No one alive today was around to take in the Buster Brown licensed product craze which swept America back in the oughts, teens and 20s.

 

Superman's popularity was driven by other media besides comicbooks, to wit TV, serials, radio show, news paper strip, and the plethora of licensed products. If not for the non-comicbook venues, Superman could have disappeared as well as the other super heroes which faded away.

 

I do not view the comics world thru the rose-primmed glasses of the super hero - that is where the comicbook collector falls down in taking in the full gamut of the history of comics in America

 

Do I enjoy most super heroes. You betcha

- but do they run my wagon exclusively? Heck no

 

Would i still have a strong interest in comics if there had been no Superman - emphatic yes

 

Would the rest of the country - it was already there.

 

To say there would have been no comics business in America without the advent of super heroes displays a galling lack of a proper comics history education. Comics in other countries do quite well without super heroes. Wake up and look around you.

 

I am not arguing about money either. Either from a publishing aspect or the after market in back issues. That is merely one part of the equation.

 

I agree that most comicbook collectors view the comics magazine as a be-all end-all in collectability. I did too for many years, fighting in the trenches of early 1970s comic book stores to gain a modicum of respect for the hobby as it turned into a business. I doubt anyone here comes before me with having comic book stores.

 

when we opened, super heroes were not our main sellers. not by a long shot

 

It wasn't until the X-men Byrne craze that super heroes began to occupy a major portion of the sales of new stuff. Smith's Conan and Wrightson's Swamp Thing among others (these were on the stands as new stuff when we opened that first Comics & Comix store). Back issue sales ran thru as many ECs and Barks Ducks as super heroes.

 

Sure, Superman is an icon - probably the most recognizable one on the planet these days, maybe Batman and Spiderman as well. But super heroes did not carry the comics industry all the way to today.

 

Think outside the box of DM comic book stores, where comic book sales are in the toilet compared to what they were like previous time eras. Calvin & Hobbes proved that a lot of people could still enjoy a well drawn, well plotted comic which was collected into a series of best selling books.

 

These days when a comic book store sells out of 50 copies of some super hero, they close down, order pizza and throw a party. I was ordering 10,000 per Byrne Xmen. Times and sales change.

 

The argument that comics in America would have gone no where without super heroes is silly at best.

 

The only one being silly here Bob is you. You have not one shred of historical evidence to support your claim that Tarzan, Little Orphan Annie, Brick Bradford or Mickey Mouse would have sustained the entire industry up to the present day. Not one tiny microscopic piece of evidence. And you never will be able to find one.

 

So that, my friend, is silliness.

 

I am off this thread.

[BLBcomics-migration]

The argument that comics in America would have gone no where without super heroes is silly at best.

 

The only one being silly here Bob is you. You have not one shred of historical evidence to support your claim that Tarzan, Little Orphan Annie, Brick Bradford or Mickey Mouse would have sustained the entire industry up to the present day. Not one tiny microscopic piece of evidence. And you never will be able to find one.

 

So that, my friend, is silliness.

 

I am off this thread.

 

Superman has not "carried" the entire american comic book industry for 68 years. superman has had his moments in the time line, but is marginal at best most of the time. Did he jump start a focus on super heroes back in 1938, you betcha, no doubt about it.

 

What i was referring to was there were plenty of other "heroes" around which people spent money on and enjoyed.

 

Suoerman has not carried the comic book industry for all these decades

 

that also is a silly notion, sorry, old friend, we are not on the same page with this one

[buttock]

But even if you could be more convincing about Obadiah place in history you'll have an even tougher time convincing MANY about the monetary value.

 

OK.....let's address the monetary value for a moment. Within the past 2 hours, an Obadiah Oldbuck american REPRINT was listed in the Platinum Age section on Ebay. Obadiah was printed for over 60 years in the US, with only a handful of the 1st printings known to exist ( for those of you who have knowledge of rare book collecting, it's all about the 1st printing.....reprints are often valued at pennies on the dollar, as is the case with the Brother Jonathan Oldbuck. The 3 copies sold year for a collective $50,000 were all 1st printings)

 

Since this is a new listing, and I will not be the buyer or seller when it's all done, let's just use this as a test case for market demand, and a gauge of pricing ---remember, pennies on the dollar since it's a reprint.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1ST-USA-COMIC-THE-AD...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

You've already bid on it - you plan to keep shilling it up?

And please learn how to use the "quote" function.

 

 

for low IQ Board members I have low patience. I placed a single, low dollar bid beacuse I wouldn't risk losing the book to prove a point. There is no "shill" about my Ebay bidding.....check my feedback Mr. half-brain. Like I said, when this auction is over, I will not be the high bidder.

 

Speaking of low I.Q., I thought you were off this thread for 10 days. Looks like you're out $20K.

[batman_fan]

Third time out for this post:

 

Quote:

 

Hi Steve

 

Nope, my post was more so directed at Bill P, i used the quick reply, which i guess leads one to seem like replying to whomever had the last previous post.

 

I would say the list you provided, gleaned from the beginning stuff in Overstreet, is predicated on value, not historical significance, the latter of which is my only criteria as i developed the history articles which front the Vict, Plat and "Modern" comic book price indexes.

 

Some fool keeps bandying about the term "arrogant" which is laughable at best. I am merely supremely confidant in the research i have conducted which has taken me far beyond the scope of what most have delved into re the archeology of all things comics. Anyone proves me wrong, and i will be the first to change the program.

 

There is decades of myth yet to undo which is still taken as gospel

 

I remember the days back in the 1980s when Marvel ruled supreme - and Marvel (Mystery) Comics #1 was considered the most valuable of all comic books - and the debates raged over whether the Oct or Nov 1939 issue was scarcer than the other.

 

Times changed, DC with Action #1 was of late anointed supreme comic book, the value keeps climbing, and lately, the mythos has moved the time line to have Action #1 as the beginning of the "Golden" Age of comicbooks.

 

Not that long ago, it just wasn't so, Joe.

 

Famous Funnies #1 news stand edition was considered the beginning of the "Golden" Age

 

For me, the "Golden" Age of comics begins with the likes of Little Nemo, Krazy Kat, and a host of other classic strips - as i do not limit myself to the narrow delivery venue of comics magazines. One could toss in Yellow Kid, Katzenjammer Kids, Buster Brown, Mutt & Jeff, Bringing Up Father, Gumps, and 100s of other comic strips.

 

The "Golden" Age of heroes in comics begins with Buck Rogers, Tarzan, Popeye, Flash Gordon, Phantom, Prince valiant - all before Superman

 

And comics ruled supreme with those heroes in the eyes and soul of America before Superman came along on the set - read and enjoyed by millions upon millions more Americans than any single comicbook(magazine) ever published.

 

I have been dealing with the re-education of American comicbook collectors for a decade now. What has transpired on this CGC thread is nothing new. There are always a few who will not budge no matter what is shown to them. So, could some one respond the above data rather than deflect attention spans away from what i wrote above

 

 

To argue whether Superman drove the industry to where it is today is impossible to conclusively say whether he did or did not. Any analysis is based on assumptions and anyone can generate a position to support their view. At the end of the day, the comic book "world" is where it is because of a lot of reasons which cannot be decoupled so easily. As for OO as the 1st American Comic? I would say depends on who you ask. These board certainly show there is no clear cut answer and given how rare the book is, it is quite possible something earlier exists or someone elses definition of a "comic book" dictates something else being the earliest comic. Myself, I don't care if it is the 1st comic or not. Looking at it, for myself, nope, not a comic, but just my opinion. If I had a copy I would love to sell it to Showcase. He would be in heaven and I would be as well.

[showcase4]

You stated, that you are willing to pay $25,000 for an OO in VG condition. If I find one, are you giong to give me a $5,000 finders fee?

 

sure....but I wouldn't go around thinking you're $5k richer too quickly. There is nothing harder to find in the entire comic book marketplace than Victorian and Platinum Age keys. You could look for an Oldbuck 1st printing for the rest of your life and never find one ( not that you would do that...just an example ).

 

I get asked by other collectors from time to time why I don't just buy Golden or Silver Age books...easier to find, pricing is easy to figure out, they can be graded by CGC as their size is standardized, etc, etc. The answer is, I've been down that road, and it was very unrewarding for me.(mentally - not finacnially) Books that exist in the hundreds, thousands, and 10,000's of thousand do not excite me. What excites me is a 100+ year old key ( very important--I only deal in keys), that may have 6-8 copies known to exist, and after years of searching, 1 comes on the market...that's what really does it for me.

 

So go out there and find me an 1842 Brother Jonathan Obadiah Oldbuck, and you will have your finders fee.....you will have earned it, that's for sure.

[infinite_comics-migration]

Since this is a new listing, and I will not be the buyer or seller when it's all done, let's just use this as a test case for market demand, and a gauge of pricing ---remember, pennies on the dollar since it's a reprint.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1ST-USA-COMIC-THE-AD...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

You've already bid on it - you plan to keep shilling it up?

And please learn how to use the "quote" function.

 

 

for low IQ Board members I have low patience. I placed a single, low dollar bid beacuse I wouldn't risk losing the book to prove a point.

 

 

"Losing the book"? You obviously haven't mastered clicking on the "Watch This Item" link, or don't know how to do a screen capture, or copy and paste, etc.

 

There is no "shill" about my Ebay bidding.....check my feedback Mr. half-brain. Like I said, when this auction is over, I will not be the high bidder.

 

Exactly. But it doesn't matter if you're the high bidder or not, "shilling" is not just using a Zero FB user name. The shilling I was refering to was you boosting up the selling price. At that time you posted, the high bid would've been $75 instead of the $100 your bid made it. I assumed you would continue to do this throughout the auction, bidding with no intention of winning, artifically raising the price and interest in the auction, and causing the winning bidder to pay more than he would/should have if you had not bid. That's shill bidding.

 

(A fair assumption, considering your irrationality regarding this book. Also, you hadn't and still haven't said you'd only place one bid, but were more cryptic with the "I will not be the buyer or seller when it's all done", which does not exclude more shill bidding from you).

 

Now I'll ask you the same question again, in simplier language you can (hopefully) comprehend - do you plan to bid on this item again?

[showcase4]

Since this is a new listing, and I will not be the buyer or seller when it's all done, let's just use this as a test case for market demand, and a gauge of pricing ---remember, pennies on the dollar since it's a reprint.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1ST-USA-COMIC-THE-AD...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

You've already bid on it - you plan to keep shilling it up?

And please learn how to use the "quote" function.

 

 

for low IQ Board members I have low patience. I placed a single, low dollar bid beacuse I wouldn't risk losing the book to prove a point.

 

 

"Losing the book"? You obviously haven't mastered clicking on the "Watch This Item" link, or don't know how to do a screen capture, or copy and paste, etc.

 

There is no "shill" about my Ebay bidding.....check my feedback Mr. half-brain. Like I said, when this auction is over, I will not be the high bidder.

 

Exactly. But it doesn't matter if you're the high bidder or not, "shilling" is not just using a Zero FB user name. The shilling I was refering to was you boosting up the selling price. At that time you posted, the high bid would've been $75 instead of the $100 your bid made it. I assumed you would continue to do this throughout the auction, bidding with no intention of winning, artifically raising the price and interest in the auction, and causing the winning bidder to pay more than he would/should have if you had not bid. That's shill bidding.

 

(A fair assumption, considering your irrationality regarding this book. Also, you hadn't and still haven't said you'd only place one bid, but were more cryptic with the "I will not be the buyer or seller when it's all done", which does not exclude more shill bidding from you).

 

Now I'll ask you the same question again, in simplier language you can (hopefully) comprehend - do you plan to bid on this item again?

 

I don't know why, but I really enjoy these CGC Boards. I think it at times creates a nice escape from the sane people I associate with in my personal/business life. I'm not sure where to start with this gem, but I'll do my best by answering in simple terms that even Infinite Comics can understand:

 

1. I know how to cut and paste

2. I know how to use Ebay's watch item feature ( they teach you that when you become a PowerSeller )

3. the only shill around here is you

4. I am not bidding on the Obadiah reprint again, as I previously stated.

 

I don't know what corner you think you can box me into, but you are starting to look quit foolish with your paranoid accusations towards me. I have a stellar reputation with every single person I have done business with over the past 14 years in the hobby......funny how you hide behind your Boards fake name....always throwing stones from a hiding place.

[Comicdey]

Is the book on ebay the same version that you have and value so much?

 

If you have no intention of bidding again on the OO, then why don't you retract your bid and let this be a real test of where it will run up to without your interference. I'm sure someone will take your place as the $500 bidder over the next 4 days.

 

Leaving your bid in there, knowing it was placed for no other reason other than to test for pricing leaves you open to criticism.

 

I remember another board member posting that he'd have bid one copy of OO (not sure which print) up to a few thousand, so why not just leave it alone and we'll all see how it does.

 

Ebay is not the right venue to sell this book, if it's as rare as you believe. I believe that the price will be nowhere near what might be achieved with a heritage auction and lots more hype.

[Comicdey]

That is unless you want to buy into the market with dollar cost averaging on the OO.

[esquirecomics]

I think this thread has exhausted its substantive capability.

 

Can everyone go back to their respective corners of the sandbox now?

[showcase4]

Is the book on ebay the same version that you have and value so much?

 

NO - THIS IS A MUCH LOWER VALUED REPRINT, AS CLEARLY STATED PREVIOUSLY

 

If you have no intention of bidding again on the OO, then why don't you retract your bid and let this be a real test of where it will run up to without your interference. I'm sure someone will take your place as the $500 bidder over the next 4 days.

 

I BID $500 BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I WOULD PAY TO OWN THIS BOOK. I DON'T RETRACT BIDS TO PROVE A POINT TO STRANGERS ON THE CGC BOARDS...I AM A PERFECT FEEDBACK, REPSONSIBLE AND RESPECTED EBAY POWERSELLER. I DON'T PLAY GAMES WITH AUCTIONS.....I TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY

 

Leaving your bid in there, knowing it was placed for no other reason other than to test for pricing leaves you open to criticism.

 

AS STATED ABOVE, MY BID IS NOT A "TEST". I DON'T PLAY AUCTION GAMES. MY BID IS AS LEGITIMATE AS THIS IS INSULTING. YOU ARE PICKING THE WRONG GUY IF YOU ARE QUESTIONING MY ETHICS AND IMPLYING PRICE MANIPULATION. I BID ON STUFF I WANT...PERIOD.

 

I remember another board member posting that he'd have bid one copy of OO (not sure which print) up to a few thousand, so why not just leave it alone and we'll all see how it does.

 

I AM CLOSE TO SPEECHLESS NOW

 

Ebay is not the right venue to sell this book, if it's as rare as you believe. I believe that the price will be nowhere near what might be achieved with a heritage auction and lots more hype.

 

FINALLY...A LEGITIMATE AND WELL TAKEN POINT..HOWEVER, A REPRINT MIGHT NOT MEET HERITAGE'S STANDARDS....BUT I'M SURE THEY WOULD BE QUIT INTERESTED IN SELLING THE 1ST PRINTING

 

 

 

[infinite_comics-migration]

If you have no intention of bidding again on the OO, then why don't you retract your bid and let this be a real test of where it will run up to without your interference. I'm sure someone will take your place as the $500 bidder over the next 4 days.

 

Exactly - if he hadn't bid, the book would be at $130 right now instead of $510. He's a hypocrite - first he says "let's just use this as a test case for market demand, and a gauge of pricing" and then he shill bids the hell out of it. Retract your bid if you're so sure about the end result...

 

Leaving your bid in there, knowing it was placed for no other reason other than to test for pricing leaves you open to criticism.

 

Thank you. I knew someone smart would understand

[infinite_comics-migration]

YOU ARE PICKING THE WRONG GUY IF YOU ARE QUESTIONING MY ETHICS AND IMPLYING PRICE MANIPULATION. I BID ON STUFF I WANT...PERIOD.

 

But you already said you don't want this one - which is correct?