Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[showcase4]

Showcase I really like you. You wanted something so you bought it. Enjoy it bro!

 

[esquirecomics]

P.S. No way in hell any of these are comic books. They're narrated illustrations.

The only thing I've seen that I'd call a comic book was that Yellow Kid, and even then I'd call it a "strip".

 

How bout we get past this already? For one thing, there is more enough room for academic debate on this issue without having to shove the argument up in someone's face.

 

I think a lot of supermodels are simply not attractive given how skinny they are. Yet obviously there are numerous people who think otherwise. So what.

 

Is OO the first American comic book? Perhaps. Showcase and Bob B. set forth some excellent analysis. Others have some good arguments also. Who knows, perhaps there is a some edition of a book no one has ever yet seen that is the first American comic book. Of course, much depends on one's definition of comic book. Word ballons. No word ballons. Text. No text. Color. No color.

 

For me, I don't care which it is. Clearly OO is an ancestor of the modern comic book and had a role in the transformation into what we have today. It is a great historical piece of Americana and that is good enough for me.

 

Who appointed you King of the CGC Boards? I'm just having some fun here. I've read the entire thread and still don't think it's a comic book, and I'm well within my rights to say so. This is an open discussion; just because you're tired of reading about it doesn't mean I am.

 

When I hire you as counselor I'll ask you to speak on my behalf. Until then, please don't.

 

I mean this in the most lovingly of ways, of course. Y'all are way too uptight and wound up over this. Where I come from, people chuckle at the mention of sea-monkeys.

 

P.S.

 

You're missing my point Shield. I have no problems with continuing the debate over whether OO is the first, second or third American comic book or not a comic book at all. More power to everyone who wishes to do so. I find the discussion of great interest and I would like to hear what you have to say on the topic.

 

What I personally don't find of value is to see personal jabs at other forumites or negative posts simply because there is disagreement on a matter, especially one where multiple answers could apply.

 

If you intended to be light-hearted, just use some of these to make your point so there is no confusion: , etc.

 

BTW,

[Shield]

P.S. No way in hell any of these are comic books. They're narrated illustrations.

The only thing I've seen that I'd call a comic book was that Yellow Kid, and even then I'd call it a "strip".

 

How bout we get past this already? For one thing, there is more enough room for academic debate on this issue without having to shove the argument up in someone's face.

 

I think a lot of supermodels are simply not attractive given how skinny they are. Yet obviously there are numerous people who think otherwise. So what.

 

Is OO the first American comic book? Perhaps. Showcase and Bob B. set forth some excellent analysis. Others have some good arguments also. Who knows, perhaps there is a some edition of a book no one has ever yet seen that is the first American comic book. Of course, much depends on one's definition of comic book. Word ballons. No word ballons. Text. No text. Color. No color.

 

For me, I don't care which it is. Clearly OO is an ancestor of the modern comic book and had a role in the transformation into what we have today. It is a great historical piece of Americana and that is good enough for me.

 

Who appointed you King of the CGC Boards? I'm just having some fun here. I've read the entire thread and still don't think it's a comic book, and I'm well within my rights to say so. This is an open discussion; just because you're tired of reading about it doesn't mean I am.

 

When I hire you as counselor I'll ask you to speak on my behalf. Until then, please don't.

 

I mean this in the most lovingly of ways, of course. Y'all are way too uptight and wound up over this. Where I come from, people chuckle at the mention of sea-monkeys.

 

P.S.

 

You're missing my point Shield. I have no problems with continuing the debate over whether OO is the first, second or third American comic book or not a comic book at all. More power to everyone who wishes to do so. I find the discussion of great interest and I would like to hear what you have to say on the topic.

 

What I personally don't find of value is to see personal jabs at other forumites or negative posts simply because there is disagreement on a matter, especially one where multiple answers could apply.

 

If you intended to be light-hearted, just use some of these to make your point so there is no confusion: , etc.

 

BTW,

 

I guess I'm just in awe over the absurdity of it all. Two $20k copies sold of the current "first comic" du jour. What happens when an 1827 original book is discovered with similar sequential panels in the next few years? I just think there is a conflict of interest when an Overstreet advisor is "pimping" this out to be the very first comic and conveniently had 2 copies to sell, for $40,000. I'm not saying he sought out buyers, as showcase actively pursued him to sell them.

That, coupled with some factually silly things stated from showcase about the first car, the first comic and how the "oldest is always the most valuable" just makes this thread all the more curious.

 

P.S. That's why I added the at the end of the other thread.

 

So tell me your take in a simple yes or no, without reference to either opposing viewpoints.

 

Is this a comic book or not?

[Timulty]

This post has actually been quit enlightening for me......I did not realize the amount of resistance to the acceptance of Victorian Age and Platinum Age comics as comic books....unless it's just a Boards thing ....but then again, the Boards are my fellow collectors, so the Boards are real life!

 

I wonder if every year there will be slighlty more and more headway made regarding these older books becoming more mainstream accepted, or if the market will remain divided at the level it is today. There is no crystal ball, but it would be neat to take a peak into the future, to see if attitudes change over the next 10-15 years...I sure hope so , but ultimatley, the marketplace will decide.

 

I am not casting judgement on this issue. Leave that to the scholars but I believe when we find the first periodical(comics come out on a periodic schedule, pretty much the sticking point of the argument) of a comic nature, then we are looking at the first comic book. Even if it does reprint strip art.

 

But again, I defer to the learned members of the comic collecting community on this issue.

[Shield]

What I personally don't find of value is to see personal jabs at other forumites or negative posts simply because there is disagreement on a matter, especially one where multiple answers could apply.

 

 

On a more serious note, how is this phrase a personal jab or negative?

 

P.S. No way in hell any of these are comic books. They're narrated illustrations.

The only thing I've seen that I'd call a comic book was that Yellow Kid, and even then I'd call it a "strip".

 

It's just my opinion. I didn't say "X is a fool because they think it's a comic"

 

Right?

[Shield]

You know another reason why I feel this book isn't a comic? There's no cover price! How do we know this just isn't another newstand giveaway? I mean didn't Comics Monthly have an actual .10 cover price?

[showcase4]

That, coupled with some factually silly things stated from showcase about the first car, the first comic and how the "oldest is always the most valuable" just makes this thread all the more curious.

 

Shield,

you are justified in pointing this out. My wife warned me not to have too many cocktails while typing on this post. This is one of those things I wish I could "un-say"

[esquirecomics]

So tell me your take in a simple yes or no, without reference to either opposing viewpoints.

 

Is this a comic book or not?

 

To be perfectly honest, I haven't decided yet. I am torn between some of the arguments.

 

I have said in other posts that, for example, I didn't view the Brownies (see below) as a comic book. To me it is more of an illustrated Children's book. So I definitely have some differences of opinion about what is or is not a "comic book". OO does seem to be different from the Brownies though.

 

Whatever it is, I definitely think it is the ancestor of modern comic books. That's why to me whether it is or is not an ACTUAL comic book is not as much an issue. It is definitely a relative.

 

[esquirecomics]

What I personally don't find of value is to see personal jabs at other forumites or negative posts simply because there is disagreement on a matter, especially one where multiple answers could apply.

 

 

On a more serious note, how is this phrase a personal jab or negative?

 

P.S. No way in hell any of these are comic books. They're narrated illustrations.

The only thing I've seen that I'd call a comic book was that Yellow Kid, and even then I'd call it a "strip".

 

It's just my opinion. I didn't say "X is a fool because they think it's a comic"

 

Right?

 

I was not necessarily referring to your prior comments specifically. I was making more of a general statement. But I did interpret your post as somewhat - how about - shrill. (?)

[esquirecomics]

You know another reason why I feel this book isn't a comic? There's no cover price! How do we know this just isn't another newstand giveaway? I mean didn't Comics Monthly have an actual .10 cover price?

 

Giveaways/promotional comics are certainly comic books. Price is irrelevant, at least to me.

 

 

 

 

In fact, the Overstreet Price Guide recognizes as the second COMIC BOOK a promotional, no priced, comic:

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

Hi Shawn

 

reason you got jumped is the acrimony level was fairly high here not too long ago, and the jokes you have thrown here have already been tossed - and flame war was running for a while, recently quieted down, as we attempt to have a serious discussion here of the early stuff

 

Of course every one is free to post what every they want to, but you are going to get blow back from other listers

 

And if you looked at the two Obadiah covers i posted now a couple pages back, you will see a cover price of THIRTY CENTS at the top of one of them, so, if not here it is again:

 

 

did you ever collect the Calvin & Hobbes series of comic books? How many first prints? most of mine are reprints, yet i dig em a lot, some of my favorite all times comics to read & enjoy, which is what the name of the game is for me

 

and i think my Pep #1 at $1250 is a decent deal -

 

bob

[BLBcomics-migration]

So tell me your take in a simple yes or no, without reference to either opposing viewpoints.

 

Is this a comic book or not?

 

To be perfectly honest, I haven't decided yet. I am torn between some of the arguments.

 

I have said in other posts that, for example, I didn't view the Brownies (see below) as a comic book. To me it is more of an illustrated Children's book. So I definitely have some differences of opinion about what is or is not a "comic book". OO does seem to be different from the Brownies though.

 

Whatever it is, I definitely think it is the ancestor of modern comic books. That's why to me whether it is or is not an ACTUAL comic book is not as much an issue. It is definitely a relative.

 

 

There is only ONE Brownies comic book, It is called BROWNIE CLOWN OF BROWNIE TOWN, reprints of newspaper strips published in 1908

 

- all other Brownies books are not comics by any stretch of anybody's imagination

 

I did not insert the Brownies books into the price index of the Guide, that was done in Timonium. All Richard Olson and i have ever done is discuss Palmer Cox's The Brownies as they related to fantasy characters recurring and beinf merchandised, something Richard Outcault followed with Yellow Kid and Buster Brown, copying Cox's success

[Shield]

Hi Shawn

 

reason you got jumped is the acrimony level was fairly high here not too long ago, and the jokes you have thrown here have already been tossed - and flame war was running for a while, recently quieted down, as we attempt to have a serious discussion here of the early stuff

 

Of course every one is free to post what every they want to, but you are going to get blow back from other listers

 

And if you looked at the two Obadiah covers i posted now a couple pages back, you will see a cover price of THIRTY CENTS at the top of one of them, so, if not here it is again:

 

 

did you ever collect the Calvin & Hobbes series of comic books? How many first prints? most of mine are reprints, yet i dig em a lot, some of my favorite all times comics to read & enjoy, which is what the name of the game is for me

 

and i think my Pep #1 at $1250 is a decent deal -

 

bob

 

Yeah, it's a decent deal. I think that back cover tear is a bit too big for me, as of course I'd want to repair it to keep the structure of the book intact, which would unfortunately mean I'd be paying full VG price for a book that'd end up being a restored one.

 

Anyway, I guess I'm a day late and a dollar short with having some fun here, so I'll bow out.

 

I still wouldn't call it a comic though, and I doubt most people would. That doesn't mean it isn't, it just is in my opinion.

 

Shawn

[Earl Davis]

So tell me your take in a simple yes or no, without reference to either opposing viewpoints.

 

Is this a comic book or not?

 

To be perfectly honest, I haven't decided yet. I am torn between some of the arguments.

 

I have said in other posts that, for example, I didn't view the Brownies (see below) as a comic book. To me it is more of an illustrated Children's book. So I definitely have some differences of opinion about what is or is not a "comic book". OO does seem to be different from the Brownies though.

 

Whatever it is, I definitely think it is the ancestor of modern comic books. That's why to me whether it is or is not an ACTUAL comic book is not as much an issue. It is definitely a relative.

 

 

There may be someone out there who thinks The Brownies is a comic book. I don't and i never spoke to anyone who does.

 

Earl.

[esquirecomics]

And if you looked at the two Obadiah covers i posted now a couple pages back, you will see a cover price of THIRTY CENTS at the top of one of them, so, if not here it is again:

 

My GAWD!

 

That was quite expensive, especially considering most comic books remained $0.10 for more than a century after that and didn't reach $0.30 until about 1977 or so.

[BLBcomics-migration]

That's because wood pulp paper was not invented until the 1880s, so paper costs were high, which led to stuff costing more than later - plus printing tech was more limited until the 1880s as well

 

By the time of the 1890s, with pulp paper still coming down in price, color was being added in more and more pubs

 

by the 1930s, with modern comic books, they were printing like 35,000 an hour

[Earl Davis]

Bob.

 

Just looking through the latest OPG listings in the Platinum section and starting with all the titles beginning with A, the following appear to be comics...

 

Adventures of Eva, Pora and Ted

Adventures of Hawkshaw

Adventures of Slim and Spud

Adventures of Willie Winters

Adventures of Willie Green

A.E.F In Cartoons by Wally

After The Town Goes Dry

Ain't it a Grand and Glorious Feeling?

Alphonse and Gaston and their Friend Leon

Always Belittlin' Vol 1

Always Belittlin' Vol 2

American Journal Examiner Joke Book Special Supplement

America's Black and White Book

Angelic Angelina

Andy Gump, His Life Story

Animal Serials

A Nobody's Scrap Book

 

These others however seem to be more debatable...

 

Among The Folks in History Vol. 1 appears to be full page single panel cartoons

Among The Folks in History Vol. 2 appears to be ull page single panel cartoons

Animal Circus, The illustrated verse

At The Bottom of The Ladder Single Panel cartoons

Auto Fun Single Panel carrtons with a couple of strips

All The Funny Folks Childrens storybook, no comic strips

[Earl Davis]

Again just looking through some of the debatable B's...

 

Barkers Illustrated Almanac Non-sequential

Barkers Picture Souvenir Non-sequential

Barts Cartoons For 1902 From The Minneapolis Journal Non-sequential

Believe it or Not! Non-sequential

Billy Bounce Illustrated Book - Not a comic at all?

Billy Hon's Famous Cartoon Book A How to Draw Book

Billy The Boy Artist's Book of Funny Pictures What is this?

Bird Center Cartoons Single Panel cartoons. Non-sequential

Blasts From The Rams Horn Single Panel cartoons. Non-sequential

Book of Cartoons Single Panel cartoons. Non-sequential

Book of Drawings by AB Frost Single Panel cartoons. Non-sequential

Bottle, The 8 Plates (Looks great though)

Boys and Folks Mainly Single Panel Cartoons. A few sequential

Bronx Ballads Illustrated Book - Not a comic at all.

Brownies Quality stuff and cute but Non-sequential

[FFB]

AMEN This bickering on the topic is stupid since the "right answer" changes depending on which definition you use -- and since there's no "official" definition, the argument is completely circular.

 

Who the hell is bickering? It's called a civil discussion. Isn't that the whole point of discussion forums? Who are you to tell me not to keep rehashing a topic on here? What caliber was the gun I held to your head that forced you to click on this thread again?

 

Perhaps you and others are tired of discussing this, perhaps I'm not. I just started reading this thread a couple of days ago.

 

Sorry Shield. I didn't really mean to single you out with the bickering comment. I was frustrated by the personal attacks going on a few pages ago and that's what I was talking about.

[BLBcomics-migration]

Bob.

 

Just looking through the latest OPG listings in the Platinum section and starting with all the titles beginning with A, the following appear to be comics...

 

Adventures of Eva, Pora and Ted

Adventures of Hawkshaw

Adventures of Slim and Spud

Adventures of Willie Winters

Adventures of Willie Green

A.E.F In Cartoons by Wally

After The Town Goes Dry

Ain't it a Grand and Glorious Feeling?

Alphonse and Gaston and their Friend Leon

Always Belittlin' Vol 1

Always Belittlin' Vol 2

American Journal Examiner Joke Book Special Supplement

America's Black and White Book

Angelic Angelina

Andy Gump, His Life Story

Animal Serials

A Nobody's Scrap Book

 

These others however seem to be more debatable...

 

Among The Folks in History Vol. 1 appears to be full page single panel cartoons

Among The Folks in History Vol. 2 appears to be ull page single panel cartoons

Animal Circus, The illustrated verse

At The Bottom of The Ladder Single Panel cartoons

Auto Fun Single Panel carrtons with a couple of strips

All The Funny Folks Childrens storybook, no comic strips

 

Yes, I agree with your assessments

 

One of the functions we collectively decided upon over on my Plat list (400+ comics scholars in 30 countries) many moons ago was to point out what was a comic book with sequential story telling comic strips, what was a single panel cartoon book, what was a book with art by a famous comic strip creator such as Opper, etc

 

There is a distinct letter code listing at the beginning of each Vict and Plat price index to clue the collector in on what is "real" and what is not

 

We went that route to help people out - the non comic strip material is not that much compared to the collective whole - at least i do not think it is so