Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[showcase4]

 

 

I figured that you must know about the reprints! That's why it baffled me when you wrote:

 

"Let's say Detective 27 was still printed in 1939, but then DC reprinted it off and on with some format changes and content deletions/changes for the next 60 years....that is exactly what happened with Obadiah Oldbuck. If that were the case with Detective 27..."

 

as if it were hypothetical. Wouldn't you find it confusing if I wrote, "If I were typing a reply on a computer..." when I obviously am?

 

Re: the closing price. I dunno. Although I'd be proud to own it, I'm not in the market for expensive, fragile Victorian to Plat books. (I've only cracked the $100 mark once for a Silver Age key that I really wanted.) I do know how voracious the Plat yahoo group can be. $1000 wouldn't have shocked me. It looks like Mr New Mexico's early bid is the one that mattered the most by determining the winning snipe. Typical ebay closing. Your bid probably had no effect at all.

 

Jack

 

Jack...I re-read my own wording, and you are correct....it was written in a confusing way. I was trying to keep it very elementary for the benefit of all....didn't know I would have someone of your caliber disecting it so thoroughly

[showcase4]

Oh, and I agree wholeheartedly with gifflefunk in every post on this thread. Call me the uninformed, call me uncultured. I have been buying comics since 1978 and "Oldbadiah" ain't no comic book my friend. It's a neat old illustrated magazine. All my comics have word ballons, staples, and ads. Even the ones from 1940. Those are comics.

 

 

Here's an example of what a comic book looks like:

 

 

Does Oldbadiah even have a price on the cover? Any ads for sea monkeys?

 

Shield,

I will agree with you on one issue....the Zip you have pictured is DEFINATELY a comic book. Let me show you another one, with some slighlty different features:

 

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/news_images/1907_4898_1.jpg

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

Here is my coverless copy of the 1849 Obadiah Oldbuck edition published by Wilson & Company, New York City - it was reverted to this format to conform with the Tilt & Bogue format published in London in 1841. There are a few panels excised from the 1842 first printing as noted in the Overstreet listing.

 

 

Here is my & Fitzgerald copy published in the 1860s/70s and still in print as late as 1904 according to the New York Times article i have uncovered thanks to Gersham Legman.

 

the 1849 Wilson 2nd printing should also have a colored paper cover, with both editions having the same image cover page on the first "title" page

 

The covers should be wrap around covering front, spine and back cover

 

With the D&F editions, there are green, blue and white paper cover variations known to exist

 

And notice there is a price of thirty cents at the top of the D&F green cover

[showcase4]

and it still only sold for far less than $1000. How do you bridge the gap between these sales results and your $20k copies? The Detective #27 is a poor analogy as I've never seen any of the reprints sell for over $500.

 

you have answered your own question within your question........you have never seen any of the reprints sell for over $500. My $20k copy was not a reprint.

This makes the Detective 27 a great analogy.

Think about it for a few minutes.......it will sink in...here's another clue :

 

Oldbuck 1st printing: $20,000

Oldbuck reprint: $760

 

Detective 27 1st printing : $30,000 ( let's say )

Detective 27 reprint: $500

 

you see??

[esquirecomics]

P.S. No way in hell any of these are comic books. They're narrated illustrations.

The only thing I've seen that I'd call a comic book was that Yellow Kid, and even then I'd call it a "strip".

 

How bout we get past this already? For one thing, there is more enough room for academic debate on this issue without having to shove the argument up in someone's face.

 

I think a lot of supermodels are simply not attractive given how skinny they are. Yet obviously there are numerous people who think otherwise. So what.

 

Is OO the first American comic book? Perhaps. Showcase and Bob B. set forth some excellent analysis. Others have some good arguments also. Who knows, perhaps there is a some edition of a book no one has ever yet seen that is the first American comic book. Of course, much depends on one's definition of comic book. Word ballons. No word ballons. Text. No text. Color. No color.

 

For me, I don't care which it is. Clearly OO is an ancestor of the modern comic book and had a role in the transformation into what we have today. It is a great historical piece of Americana and that is good enough for me.

[Shield]

P.S. No way in hell any of these are comic books. They're narrated illustrations.

The only thing I've seen that I'd call a comic book was that Yellow Kid, and even then I'd call it a "strip".

 

How bout we get past this already? For one thing, there is more enough room for academic debate on this issue without having to shove the argument up in someone's face.

 

I think a lot of supermodels are simply not attractive given how skinny they are. Yet obviously there are numerous people who think otherwise. So what.

 

Is OO the first American comic book? Perhaps. Showcase and Bob B. set forth some excellent analysis. Others have some good arguments also. Who knows, perhaps there is a some edition of a book no one has ever yet seen that is the first American comic book. Of course, much depends on one's definition of comic book. Word ballons. No word ballons. Text. No text. Color. No color.

 

For me, I don't care which it is. Clearly OO is an ancestor of the modern comic book and had a role in the transformation into what we have today. It is a great historical piece of Americana and that is good enough for me.

 

Who appointed you King of the CGC Boards? I'm just having some fun here. I've read the entire thread and still don't think it's a comic book, and I'm well within my rights to say so. This is an open discussion; just because you're tired of reading about it doesn't mean I am.

 

When I hire you as counselor I'll ask you to speak on my behalf. Until then, please don't.

 

I mean this in the most lovingly of ways, of course. Y'all are way too uptight and wound up over this. Where I come from, people chuckle at the mention of sea-monkeys.

 

P.S.

[Shield]

Detective 27 reprint: $500

 

you see??

 

But here's the flaw with your argument. This hasn't ever happened; someone giving $500 for a knowingly reprinted 'Tec 27.

[Shield]

and it still only sold for far less than $1000. How do you bridge the gap between these sales results and your $20k copies? The Detective #27 is a poor analogy as I've never seen any of the reprints sell for over $500.

 

you have answered your own question within your question........you have never seen any of the reprints sell for over $500. My $20k copy was not a reprint.

This makes the Detective 27 a great analogy.

Think about it for a few minutes.......it will sink in...here's another clue :

 

Oldbuck 1st printing: $20,000

Oldbuck reprint: $760

 

Detective 27 1st printing : $30,000 ( let's say )

Detective 27 reprint: $500

 

you see??

 

Also, isn't your copy a reprint as well? It isn't the original edition, so how can it be the first anything?

[showcase4]

Detective 27 reprint: $500

 

you see??

 

But here's the flaw with your argument. This hasn't ever happened; someone giving $500 for a knowingly reprinted 'Tec 27.

 

this was used just as an example....An Obadiah reprint would be valued higher than a Tec 27 reprint due to the Oldbuck being 150 years old, and very rare compared to the newer, more common Tec 27 reprint.

It is a little hard to compare 2 of any book that are seperated by 150 years.

[FFB]

P.S. No way in hell any of these are comic books. They're narrated illustrations.

The only thing I've seen that I'd call a comic book was that Yellow Kid, and even then I'd call it a "strip".

 

How bout we get past this already? For one thing, there is more enough room for academic debate on this issue without having to shove the argument up in someone's face.

 

I think a lot of supermodels are simply not attractive given how skinny they are. Yet obviously there are numerous people who think otherwise. So what.

 

Is OO the first American comic book? Perhaps. Showcase and Bob B. set forth some excellent analysis. Others have some good arguments also. Who knows, perhaps there is a some edition of a book no one has ever yet seen that is the first American comic book. Of course, much depends on one's definition of comic book. Word ballons. No word ballons. Text. No text. Color. No color.

 

For me, I don't care which it is. Clearly OO is an ancestor of the modern comic book and had a role in the transformation into what we have today. It is a great historical piece of Americana and that is good enough for me.

 

AMEN This bickering on the topic is stupid since the "right answer" changes depending on which definition you use -- and since there's no "official" definition, the argument is completely circular.

[Durden08]

How bout we get past this already? For one thing, there is more enough room for academic debate on this issue without having to shove the argument up in someone's face.

 

I think a lot of supermodels are simply not attractive given how skinny they are. Yet obviously there are numerous people who think otherwise. So what.

 

Is OO the first American comic book? Perhaps. Showcase and Bob B. set forth some excellent analysis. Others have some good arguments also. Who knows, perhaps there is a some edition of a book no one has ever yet seen that is the first American comic book. Of course, much depends on one's definition of comic book. Word ballons. No word ballons. Text. No text. Color. No color.

 

For me, I don't care which it is. Clearly OO is an ancestor of the modern comic book and had a role in the transformation into what we have today. It is a great historical piece of Americana and that is good enough for me.

 

[Timulty]

Okay, the First Comic is Whiz Comics #2(#1). All the rest were prototypes so you guys can just stew in you pulpy mire of pre-comics!!

[Timely]

Okay, the First Comic is Whiz Comics #2(#1). All the rest were prototypes so you guys can just stew in you pulpy mire of pre-comics!!

 

 

West

[Shield]

AMEN This bickering on the topic is stupid since the "right answer" changes depending on which definition you use -- and since there's no "official" definition, the argument is completely circular.

 

Who the hell is bickering? It's called a civil discussion. Isn't that the whole point of discussion forums? Who are you to tell me not to keep rehashing a topic on here? What caliber was the gun I held to your head that forced you to click on this thread again?

 

Perhaps you and others are tired of discussing this, perhaps I'm not. I just started reading this thread a couple of days ago.

[Shield]

Okay, the First Comic is Whiz Comics #2(#1). All the rest were prototypes so you guys can just stew in you pulpy mire of pre-comics!!

 

Stop it Timulty, you're having fun. Some of the other members hate that.

[Earl Davis]

Oh, and I agree wholeheartedly with gifflefunk in every post on this thread. Call me the uninformed, call me uncultured. I have been buying comics since 1978 and "Oldbadiah" ain't no comic book my friend. It's a neat old illustrated magazine. All my comics have word ballons, staples, and ads. Even the ones from 1940. Those are comics.

 

 

Here's an example of what a comic book looks like:

 

 

Does Oldbadiah even have a price on the cover? Any ads for sea monkeys?

 

Call me the uninformed, call me uncultured. I have been buying comics since 1998 when they were invented by Tokyopop and "Zip" ain't no comic book my friend. It's a neat old illustrated magazine. All my comics have computer generated art, 100+ pages, and and shiny pages inside. Even the ones from 1998. Those are comics. Not that old [embarrassing lack of self control] from 50 years ago pal. How many anyone compare that old stuff to a modern Tokyopop style comic book and call it a comic is beyond me.

 

 

Here's an example of what a comic book looks like:

 

[showcase4]

This post has actually been quit enlightening for me......I did not realize the amount of resistance to the acceptance of Victorian Age and Platinum Age comics as comic books....unless it's just a Boards thing ....but then again, the Boards are my fellow collectors, so the Boards are real life!

 

I wonder if every year there will be slighlty more and more headway made regarding these older books becoming more mainstream accepted, or if the market will remain divided at the level it is today. There is no crystal ball, but it would be neat to take a peak into the future, to see if attitudes change over the next 10-15 years...I sure hope so , but ultimatley, the marketplace will decide.

[Shield]

Call me the uninformed, call me uncultured. I have been buying comics since 1998 when they were invented by Tokyopop and "Zip" ain't no comic book my friend. It's a neat old illustrated magazine. All my comics have computer generated art, 100+ pages, and and shiny pages inside. Even the ones from 1998. Those are comics. Not that old [embarrassing lack of self control] from 50 years ago pal. How many anyone compare that old stuff to a modern Tokyopop style comic book and call it a comic is beyond me.

 

 

 

Now that's a hilarious post! Nice touch with "computer generated art"!

[Earl Davis]

Point being whenever the format of the presentation of the material changes does what the previous generation used to call a comic book stop being one? If Tillie The Toiler is called a comic book during the Platinum Age but stops being a comic book during the Golden Age when the format changes, does Spider-man stop being a comic book when/ if it is superseded by the Toykopop style 21st century format of comic book which is the dominant format for presenting comics through mass market outlets – assuming the Toykopop style format continues it’s march towards being the dominant format of the early 21st Century.

[Shield]

This post has actually been quit enlightening for me......I did not realize the amount of resistance to the acceptance of Victorian Age and Platinum Age comics as comic books....unless it's just a Boards thing ....but then again, the Boards are my fellow collectors, so the Boards are real life!

 

I wonder if every year there will be slighlty more and more headway made regarding these older books becoming more mainstream accepted, or if the market will remain divided at the level it is today. There is no crystal ball, but it would be neat to take a peak into the future, to see if attitudes change over the next 10-15 years...I sure hope so , but ultimatley, the marketplace will decide.

 

Even if we were all enlightened, no one else has stepped forward to offer $20k for a illustrated B&W magazine yet! Oh, wait...

 

Showcase I really like you. You wanted something so you bought it. Enjoy it bro!