Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[infinite_comics-migration]

I will try to help you with this..........1st of all, I am not alone with my interest being limitied to American published comics - I would say based on the collectors and dealers I network with, about 98% also have a US only mindset. 98% ! The "not published in the US" factor is HUGE. Look at the struggles I have experienced on this thread with acceptance of my 1842 US Obadiah Oldbuck . It's the 1st American comic book(arguably)...and I'm getting my butt kicked! Just imgaine if it were printed in London instead of New York City, and instead of its claim to fame being "1st US comic", it is the "1st English language comic"...I would be laughed right off the Boards!

 

This all goes back to Victorian Age and Platinum Age comics being a rather small "niche", and when you get into International books from this time period, you have a "niche of a niche of a niche of a niche". When you are selling something with this small of an audience, you can't have a $1,200 opening bid.......you need to list this book for $1 with no reserve if you want to sell it. Maybe the British Oldbuck would do well on Ebay UK....but this ain't the UK !! I spent over $100,000 in 2005 on Victorian and Platinum Age US keys, and would not pay $1 for a foreign comic book,,,,I don't care what the title or historical signifigance is.... that is a strong statement for the importance of "published in America"

 

And a strong statement that you are indeed a grubby Speculator and not a Collector.

And you forgot to answer Bob's question:

"it seems to me that so many of the posts on the CGC boards revolve around money, how much it is "worth" now, how much it might boost in the future. Why is that?"

[mica]

Since the discussion is about Victorian and platinum books why not continue that discussion in the more appropriate thread .

 

This one has ran it's course...and then some. Not saying it was bad just worn out.

Single file please.

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

And a strong statement that you are indeed a grubby Speculator and not a Collector.

And you forgot to answer Bob's question:

"it seems to me that so many of the posts on the CGC boards revolve around money, how much it is "worth" now, how much it might boost in the future. Why is that?"

 

I did not direct that query at Steve Showcase - why would you assume it was? It is directed more at YOU - why do you place such emphasis on value, speculator, etc? Comic books go up via infinite values?

[mica]

appropriate thread .

[BLBcomics-migration]

Why do some feel this thread should die?

 

The original thought pattern, as i understand it, coming to this thread many weeks after it began, was concerning Steve wondering why there was such resistance re Obadiah Oldbuck being America's first comic book, irrespective of where the printing plates originated.

 

The 1842 first print is wrap around floppy pamphlet style, just like Famous Funnies, or like, er, um, what some wish to say is the first Golden Age comic book, Action #1 - a new phenomena that i do not understand where this came from

 

OO tells a decent story, is still funny after 164 years since it was printed in New York City

 

Personally, my research delves almost nada with regards to speculator values, contrary to some snide remarks which crop up here periodically

[infinite_comics-migration]

 

And a strong statement that you are indeed a grubby Speculator and not a Collector.

And you forgot to answer Bob's question:

"it seems to me that so many of the posts on the CGC boards revolve around money, how much it is "worth" now, how much it might boost in the future. Why is that?"

 

I did not direct that query at Steve Showcase - why would you assume it was? It is directed more at YOU - why do you place such emphasis on value, speculator, etc? Comic books go up via infinite values?

 

Suuuuuure Bob. Do a search in Gold for "20,000", see how many times Showcase-4 mentions (crowbared into the conversation) he paid $20,000 for his magazine

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/dosearch.php

(I doubt this link will work as I want it to).

 

Bob, don't forget showcase-4 also told us this: "Bob Beerbohm originally asked $30,000 for the Obadiah Oldbuck I bought from him last year....$20,000 was a negotiated price."

 

So don't be a hypocrite, mmmkay?

[showcase4]

 

Suuuuuure Bob. Do a search in Gold for "20,000", see how many times Showcase-4 mentions (crowbared into the conversation) he paid $20,000 for his magazine

 

 

...and if you click on this search, you will see that you were the only sludge on the entire CGC Boards to repeatedly use the word "person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed" ---- a sign of fine upbringing no doubt

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/dosearch.php

[ciorac]

Hey Bob - how about you try sticking your thumb up your butt?

 

why, have you ridden your own thumb as well?

 

[ciorac]

So many new people walk into the hobby not knowing squat except

"...I want a 9.4 or better, " only goes towards weakening the hobby when they have to get out and find that they have paid way too much for a comic because of promotion by others (and unrealistic Guide prices)

 

Sort of like the collectible ring hobby a few years back.

There were maybe 10 people involved and the last one holding the expensive ring was "IT"

 

Wow! I am impressed! Just got here and starting off with a lucid, observant, topical post like that! Thank you. You've just put into print something I've been saying to anyone who will listen for a very long time.

 

Well done man!

[showcase4]

by enticing new investors/speculators into the hobby (while at the same time setting yourself up as an 'expert' ) doesn't this prop up the unrealistic

'value' of many books?

 

So many new people walk into the hobby not knowing squat except

"...I want a 9.4 or better, " only goes towards weakening the hobby when they have to get out and find that they have paid way too much for a comic because of promotion by others (and unrealistic Guide prices)

 

Sort of like the collectible ring hobby a few years back.

There were maybe 10 people involved and the last one holding the expensive ring was "IT"

 

1st of all, you may have only posted a few times, but you are obviously an experienced and worldly collector ---welcome to the Boards! We could use a few good men!

 

Although I understand and agree with the great points you make here, there are some different distinctions that pertain to this particular thread. The main thing is -- there will be no victim here. I have been around for 14 years, and have decided on my own to focus on Victorian and Platinum Age keys. No one came to me and said " hey pal, want to get in on the next big thing? I've got this rare book that is guaranteed to explode in value over the next few years". I know that stuff happens....but not to this guy!

 

When I found out that Bob Beerbohm had 2 copies of Oldbuck, I went after him. He did not come to me to sell...he had no interest initially ---I just kept working on him and planting seeds. I am also going after other privately held keys from this era....no one has a gun to my head. If I one day decide to sell Oldbuck and other books like it, and they bring less than I paid --then shame on me. But if that should happen, there is still no victim, as my buying decisions have come without pressure or influence by others. I believe that the keys from this era are undervalued and overlooked, and that eventually they will get the respect and have the increased demand that they deserve ( not to GA or SA levels, but increased). If my beliefs are wrong, and I should have stuck to Silver Age VF+ keys, than so be it. It will be 100% on my shoulders. If I end up being "IT", it will have been by my own free will...I am collecting what I love. Obadiah Oldbuck is a ring I don't mind keeping.

 

Once again, welcome

[infinite_comics-migration]

So that's your sad way of avoiding Bob's question? No surprise at that deflection.

[showcase4]

[Shield]

 

And a strong statement that you are indeed a grubby Speculator and not a Collector.

And you forgot to answer Bob's question:

"it seems to me that so many of the posts on the CGC boards revolve around money, how much it is "worth" now, how much it might boost in the future. Why is that?"

 

I did not direct that query at Steve Showcase - why would you assume it was? It is directed more at YOU - why do you place such emphasis on value, speculator, etc? Comic books go up via infinite values?

 

Suuuuuure Bob. Do a search in Gold for "20,000", see how many times Showcase-4 mentions (crowbared into the conversation) he paid $20,000 for his magazine

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/dosearch.php

(I doubt this link will work as I want it to).

 

Bob, don't forget showcase-4 also told us this: "Bob Beerbohm originally asked $30,000 for the Obadiah Oldbuck I bought from him last year....$20,000 was a negotiated price."

 

So don't be a hypocrite, mmmkay?

 

I think Bob is just defending charging Showcase-4 $20,000 each for two copies of this book, and has come off as a true snake oil salesman in every regard. His repeated chest thumping with phrases like "MY Obadiah" and "History Lesson Time" makes him sound like the biggest blowhard funny book dealer on these boards to date.

 

P.S. OO isn't a comic book either, and it sure is looking like Showcase-4 overpaid for each copy by about $15k each, considering the recent EBAY sale, trimmed or not.

 

Bob, you might think you sound interesting drawing comparisions of OO to Action #1, but OO is so far esoteric that 99.999% of all collectors could give a krap less about it.

[Shield]

Showcase, it sounds like you've come to terms with the fact that buying OO for the potential resale value was a bad idea after all.

 

Have you considered asking omniscient Beerbohm if he'd buy these back from you? Be honest!

[Shield]

 

Showcase this was weak too by the way...I wouldn't trade a moped for a copy of Obadiah Oldkrap!

[showcase4]

Showcase, it sounds like you've come to terms with the fact that buying OO for the potential resale value was a bad idea after all.

 

Where are you hearing this sound?

[Shield]

Showcase, it sounds like you've come to terms with the fact that buying OO for the potential resale value was a bad idea after all.

 

Where are you hearing this sound?

 

Didn't you just type:

 

"If I one day decide to sell Oldbuck and other books like it, and they bring less than I paid --then shame on me. But if that should happen, there is still no victim, as my buying decisions have come without pressure or influence by others. I believe that the keys from this era are undervalued and overlooked, and that eventually they will get the respect and have the increased demand that they deserve ( not to GA or SA levels, but increased). If my beliefs are wrong, and I should have stuck to Silver Age VF+ keys, than so be it. It will be 100% on my shoulders. If I end up being "IT", it will have been by my own free will...I am collecting what I love."

 

I've made some questionable purchases before in the past, but NEVER would have typed or thought the above for any purchase that cost more than a few hundred dollars. I mean c'mon, that was FORTY GRAND! I like to leave those sort of purchase decisions to things with lower risks, such as houses or property. You know, something with some sort of history on past performance. I know what my house is worth due to prior sales on homes in my area, and also based on what the previous owner paid for it. If I plunked down $40k for a G/VG copy of Detective #27 or Action #1, I would at least feel comfort in knowing there's some sales data to backup my purchase.

 

Can you do this with OO? Your statement above really sounds like you're second guessing your own purchases to me.

[showcase4]

Showcase, it sounds like you've come to terms with the fact that buying OO for the potential resale value was a bad idea after all.

 

Where are you hearing this sound?

 

Didn't you just type:

 

"If I one day decide to sell Oldbuck and other books like it, and they bring less than I paid --then shame on me. But if that should happen, there is still no victim, as my buying decisions have come without pressure or influence by others. I believe that the keys from this era are undervalued and overlooked, and that eventually they will get the respect and have the increased demand that they deserve ( not to GA or SA levels, but increased). If my beliefs are wrong, and I should have stuck to Silver Age VF+ keys, than so be it. It will be 100% on my shoulders. If I end up being "IT", it will have been by my own free will...I am collecting what I love."

 

I've made some questionable purchases before in the past, but NEVER would have typed or thought the above for any purchase that cost more than a few hundred dollars. I mean c'mon, that was FORTY GRAND! I like to leave those sort of purchase decisions to things with lower risks, such as houses or property. You know, something with some sort of history on past performance. I know what my house is worth due to prior sales on homes in my area, and also based on what the previous owner paid for it. If I plunked down $40k for a G/VG copy of Detective #27 or Action #1, I would at least feel comfort in knowing there's some sales data to backup my purchase.

 

Can you do this with OO? Your statement above really sounds like you're second guessing your own purchases to me.

 

I am not second guessing my own purchases...I am being honest. None of us as collectors are guaranteed that our books will be worth more in the future....some books may be higher risk than others, but there ain't no sure things. Obadiah Oldbuck, which is a HUGE key within its Era, has every opportunity to appreciate over the upcoming years, just as any other key does. The books rarity makes it not possible to track its appreciation rate like a more common book, but that does not mean it is a bad investment...it just means it's an investment that may not be right for you.

[infinite_comics-migration]

 

Wow, what creativity! You really have no original thoughts in your head, do you? Go back to thumping your chest, reguritating whatever Bob says, and trying to convince us that your purchases are impressive...

 

And Shield has hit the nail on the head

 

I'll try not to bump this thread anymore and let it die the death it deserves...

[Shield]

I am not second guessing my own purchases...I am being honest. None of us as collectors are guaranteed that our books will be worth more in the future....some books may be higher risk than others, but there ain't no sure things. Obadiah Oldbuck, which is a HUGE key within its Era, has every opportunity to appreciate over the upcoming years, just as any other key does. The books rarity makes it not possible to track its appreciation rate like a more common book, but that does not mean it is a bad investment...it just means it's an investment that may not be right for you.

 

I understand what you're saying, and I hope it works out for you. I just know a few people with tons of discrectionary income at their disposal (and love comics) and still wouldn't have put $40k on these two books.

 

How about this - put either one of these books with a $50k reserve either on Heritage or maybe even Ebay and see where they end up? I'll kick in $20 to you via Paypal if you want to "sell" one on Ebay. I would bet you that one wouldn't break the $10,000 mark. If I'm right, you just refund me the $20. If I'm wrong, then you'll know the current market value, at least on Ebay, and you don't have to refund me anything.

 

There. I've officially thrown down the proverbial gauntlet. Put up or shutup. Stop drinking BeerBONG Kool-Aid and list one of 'em on eBay.