Ditko ASM #31 Complete Interior Artwork - Thoughts? 0

[delekkerste]

Any thoughts on what this might go for.

 

 

Mastro to Offer Original Ditko Art

Auctions/Prices, Scoop, Friday, June 30, 2006

 

Mastro Auctions has announced its full-scale entry into the comic books and comic art market with the roll-out of over 200 quality lots as part of the company's August 2006 Premier Auction. The Mastro Auctions' comic books and comic art division, headed by Chris Porter, was formed in early 2006 and is on schedule to become a major force in this specialized collecting genre.

 

Phone and internet bidding for the auction will begin on Monday, July 31 and conclude on Wednesday, August 16.

 

“Before we proceeded with our inaugural comic books and comic art effort we wanted to be sure we were prepared, not only from an operational standpoint, but from a content perspective as well,” said Chris Porter. “The Mastro Auctions brand is synonymous with excellence, uniqueness and high quality. We knew that securing the right material would be key, both for this auction and for future auctions as well.”

 

Perhaps the most amazing masterpiece in Mastro Auctions comic books and comic art sale is an unprecedented offering of the original Steve Ditko art for all 20-story pages of the Amazing Spider-Man #31, including the splash page.

 

The comic book for which the artwork was created was the first installment of the three-part Amazing Spider-Man story that still stands as a true classic of the Ditko-Lee collaboration. This Amazing Spider-Man trilogy began with #31, “If This Be My Destiny...!” (December, 1965), continuing into issue #32's “Man on a Rampage!” (January, 1966) and culminating with the unforgettable “Final Chapter!,” in issue #33 (February, 1966).

 

Porter describes the condition of the artwork as “outstanding” with no discernable flaws. Mastro Auctions will offer bidders a unique opportunity to go after both individual pages from the book as well as the entire collection. If the total of the high bids for the individual pages exceeds the high bid for the collection, those bidders would will the individual pages. If the high bid for the entire collection is highest, then that one bidder will own the entire book.

 

To register to bid in the upcoming Mastro Auctions August Premier auction, call 630-472-1200 or go to www.mastroauctions.com. Or, if you have additional questions, contact Chris Porter directly by phone (231-946-8510) or by email at cporter@mastroauctions.com.

[jjeanius]

Wow. Maybe it's just me, but I seriously doubt that this book will stay complete.

[jimjum12]

,The ASM 31 story DOES include the first Gwen Stacy,Harry Osborn,Prof. Warren and that splash is AWESOME.If a VERY wealthy Spidey freak were ever to pull out the stops,this might be the time.Ditko's work was at it's peak.It might get a 350k bid for the full story.From someone who never intends to sell it in their lifetime.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

p.s. Where's KrazyKat when you need him?

[jimjum12]

That is an interesting and fair way to market a complete story.I wonder if that way of potentially breaking up the story might catch on for future auctions of similar circumstance?GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[vodou]

It might get a 350k bid for the full story.From someone who never intends to sell it in their lifetime.GOD BLESS...

 

Not likely, but maybe I'll be wrong. Those with an "extra" $350k (and those guys are just all over the place) wouldn't likely put it somewhere where there's no return on profit. There's a real good chance those same folks have to SELL something to get liquid. After all that's what we're talking about here - sunk cash for something that won't (in that collector's lifetime) be converted back to cash. Highly unlikely. Even the Steve Geppi's of our hobby prefer to MAKE money on our hobby vs. SINKING it forever.

 

A breakup is much more likely (see Mark McDermott entry in the encylopedia). Even with prices all out there and there never being any conservative forces or potential price retreats this book will top at $200k, probably less. Most folks don't have raw cash at that level and Mastro ain't taking credit cards or promises (not to mention CGC trade). Even fewer folks are willing to trick their bank into a a fresh mortgage just to pull out cash and speculate on the break value.

 

If you've a house with $200k to pull out of it - would you? To buy some Spidey pages, nice as they are? More importantly, would you still be married the next day? All the real players at this level, that give a [embarrassing lack of self control] about funnybook art, are thinking these same thoughts and all but two will walk away. The two that remain will determine the auction price, but not more than $200k.

 

I'm not looking to join the lousy naysayers group, but having myself offered some supposedly top stuff over the years (@ the 10k+ level) has taught me how much hot air there is in this hobby. Any of you that haven't played there would be amazed how few are standing after you mention a "real" cash (vs. cash/trade or all trade) on-the-spot price. The hobby pyramid narrows dramatically as to number of players once you cross the $2000/$2500 mark for immediate cash no time payments. Another tier is crossing $5k, where 50-75% of remaining players drop off, crossing $10k means talking to under 10 people. There's a long stretch from $10k to $200k (or whatever).

 

As always "cash is king" because it offers unlimited opportunity, all other methods are "problematic" due to inherent limitations and so full of "apparent value" bs. Even time payments and credit lines bear hidden (for either the buyer or seller, or both) "time value of money" constraints to be factored in. No special math needed for straight cash on-the-spot.

 

But I could be alllll wrong!

[spider9698]

I agree. Big problem is that Mastro does not offer time payments. Winner needs to poney up quickly. That's a lot of loose change under the couch cushions.

[heartened]

It might get a 350k bid for the full story.From someone who never intends to sell it in their lifetime.GOD BLESS...

 

Not likely, but maybe I'll be wrong. Those with an "extra" $350k (and those guys are just all over the place) wouldn't likely put it somewhere where there's no return on profit. There's a real good chance those same folks have to SELL something to get liquid. After all that's what we're talking about here - sunk cash for something that won't (in that collector's lifetime) be converted back to cash. Highly unlikely. Even the Steve Geppi's of our hobby prefer to MAKE money on our hobby vs. SINKING it forever.

 

A breakup is much more likely (see Mark McDermott entry in the encylopedia). Even with prices all out there and there never being any conservative forces or potential price retreats this book will top at $200k, probably less. Most folks don't have raw cash at that level and Mastro ain't taking credit cards or promises (not to mention CGC trade). Even fewer folks are willing to trick their bank into a a fresh mortgage just to pull out cash and speculate on the break value.

 

If you've a house with $200k to pull out of it - would you? To buy some Spidey pages, nice as they are? More importantly, would you still be married the next day? All the real players at this level, that give a [embarrassing lack of self control] about funnybook art, are thinking these same thoughts and all but two will walk away. The two that remain will determine the auction price, but not more than $200k.

 

I'm not looking to join the lousy naysayers group, but having myself offered some supposedly top stuff over the years (@ the 10k+ level) has taught me how much hot air there is in this hobby. Any of you that haven't played there would be amazed how few are standing after you mention a "real" cash (vs. cash/trade or all trade) on-the-spot price. The hobby pyramid narrows dramatically as to number of players once you cross the $2000/$2500 mark for immediate cash no time payments. Another tier is crossing $5k, where 50-75% of remaining players drop off, crossing $10k means talking to under 10 people. There's a long stretch from $10k to $200k (or whatever).

 

As always "cash is king" because it offers unlimited opportunity, all other methods are "problematic" due to inherent limitations and so full of "apparent value" bs. Even time payments and credit lines bear hidden (for either the buyer or seller, or both) "time value of money" constraints to be factored in. No special math needed for straight cash on-the-spot.

 

But I could be alllll wrong!

 

I agree with much of this, but there are definitely a lot of people who can and do spend over 10K without blinking. Your figure of "under 10 people" is way off. There are certainly at least 50 people at the over 10K level, if not more.

[vodou]

I agree with much of this, but there are definitely a lot of people who can and do spend over 10K without blinking. Your figure of "under 10 people" is way off. There are certainly at least 50 people at the over 10K level, if not more.

 

Didn't mean "in general", meant specifically for any given "better" individual lot/piece in question "worth" $10k+. If you're holding the cover to Batman 15 and want to offer it privately, for real cash, no bs, your short list is tremendously short even though interest among all tiers of fanbase is very high. Just because you've got that cash free and clear to spend on comic art, w/o guilty feelings or other issues, doesn't mean you specifically want Batman 15.

 

Also I'm not counting dealers here. For them it's a business decision.

 

I mean, Hari, that complete Ditko book is nice, right? But will you be hitting the kitty or selling stuff to finance it? Or maybe it's not your cup of tea? Thus removing a fella that can -at the right time, for the right piece- find a way to spend $10k+ cash on art.

[comicartfan]

Michael,

I think you bring up some great points, as does Hari and Stephen. Ultimately I think this maybe just a case of "showing off" and getting the attention and then selling it in pieces. I know that Ideal Collectibles did a similar marketing tool when they were offering those complete ASM and X Men runs, 1-300....First as a set, then sold them seperately. - The market while hot right now, would be hard pressed to have a buyer that would be willing to commit to this particular item.

Tom Horvitz made a comment on the comic -l group that this book sold at Sotheby's for 200k around 1992....

[pinupcartoonguy]

Actually, he said $22K.

 

A.

[crawdad]

I agree, 350k in cold cash is a long shot.

 

Broken up, the better pages will go above $15k.

 

Hard to make a profit at $350k all-in, but at $200k a dealer selling direct to collectors could do well... but going through a big auction house would cut the potential profits down to a much less attractive net gain.

 

Thus, I agree this story will likely break up, fetching an average $15k- 19k a page for the best pages; and half that for each of any minor pages.

 

I'm waiting for Amazing Adult Fantasy covers and stories to pop up, because I'm an adult now.

 

 

I've heard that a collector with the complete interior artwork for X-Men #1 (1963)

invested $250k in trade and cash for it from high end dealer Greg Manning who advised collector it could be flipped for 900k. The GM catalog offered it at 900k. No sale, and book was kept by the collector.

May be available at a similar price direct from collector, who has not put it back on the market since last offered in the GM catalog (catalog shut down at present).

 

Incredible Hulk #3, the complete interior art - Jack Kirby & Ayers - has just come up... that's all I heard.

 

I have a theory, and wonder if anyone agrees... that all the Silver Age Marvel original artwork was saved, from Fantastic Four #1 on up! In fact, I heard a rumor several years ago that a collector had the art to FF #1.

 

With the art showing up to entire books, from as early as X-Men #1 and Hulk #3, let alone ASM #31...

What's the story? Is someone claiming the original Marvel art was stacked near the front office and fans casually walked in and helped themselves?

 

No, I kid, but if books like ASM 31, X-Men 1 and Hulk 3 exist unbroken after all these years... I bet there is a whole lot more prime SA Marvel art in private hands.

 

I'll be saving my pennies for the big day a big batch turns up, say in around 10 years or so.

Edited July 1, 2006 by crawdad

[comicartfan]

Actually, he said $22K.

 

A.

 

My bad ! - thanks

[heartened]

I agree with much of this, but there are definitely a lot of people who can and do spend over 10K without blinking. Your figure of "under 10 people" is way off. There are certainly at least 50 people at the over 10K level, if not more.

 

Didn't mean "in general", meant specifically for any given "better" individual lot/piece in question "worth" $10k+. If you're holding the cover to Batman 15 and want to offer it privately, for real cash, no bs, your short list is tremendously short even though interest among all tiers of fanbase is very high. Just because you've got that cash free and clear to spend on comic art, w/o guilty feelings or other issues, doesn't mean you specifically want Batman 15.

 

Also I'm not counting dealers here. For them it's a business decision.

 

I mean, Hari, that complete Ditko book is nice, right? But will you be hitting the kitty or selling stuff to finance it? Or maybe it's not your cup of tea? Thus removing a fella that can -at the right time, for the right piece- find a way to spend $10k+ cash on art.

 

Yes, I agree. For individual items, the list of buyers may be short. But, that's the same with any high-end collectibles.

[spider9698]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Heritage buy the story and parcel it out over time.

[vodou]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Heritage buy the story and parcel it out over time.

 

And as a business, that's a business decision. Even if they only break even or even lose money on the eventual sale of the break up pieces, it can make sense from a marketing perspective. What's the advertising (particularly the "free" kind that comes with any big sale, all the papers report on it) value of buying/owning a key Ditko ASM book? That might just be worth $50k or more alone to Heritage (or any Company X). Not to mention if it doesn't sell in the auction, Heritage (or whomever) can step in and buy for a lot less behind the scenes. So what may be perceived by the man on the street (all of us) as a book that's "worth" $200k or $300k or whatever, a marketing arm could acquire for behind the scenes for something less than Mastro's opening bid (if it's too high to get a bite) and then leverage price against intangibles (advertising opportunities).

 

Not only all of the above, but as a net cash business (my understanding is that Heritage is in a large net position, they don't owe) they can afford to sit on the book until the market catches up pricewise...even if it's years down the road. Or just dump it like they do lots of stuff they get tired of and throw a monkey wrench into the perceived value of Ditko ASM pages. And that would be a "correction"

[delekkerste]

I agree, 350k in cold cash is a long shot.

 

Broken up, the better pages will go above $15k.

 

Hard to make a profit at $350k all-in, but at $200k a dealer selling direct to collectors could do well... but going through a big auction house would cut the potential profits down to a much less attractive net gain.

 

Thus, I agree this story will likely break up, fetching an average $15k- 19k a page for the best pages; and half that for each of any minor pages.

 

Unless one of the very few people out there with the means really has to have this particular issue and intends to hold on to it, it's difficult to see this book staying complete. At $200K (which I agree would be difficult for a single collector to top), that's $10K/page and one would have to think the pages would fetch more than that broken up when you consider what the splash and a few key pages might go for.

 

 

I've heard that a collector from a well known rock band is trying to sell the complete interior artwork for X-Men #1 (1963) pencilled by Jack Kirby, inked by Paul Reinman.

 

Supposedly the collector invested $250k in trade and cash for it, and the non-comic art gallery handling it has had no sale after well over a year.

 

Some people on this Board were insisting either late last year or earlier this year that this artwork had been sold, but I have heard the same thing you have. Maybe someone from the former camp can provide some details of what they know that the rest of us don't?

 

 

I have a theory, and wonder if anyone agrees... that all the Silver Age Marvel original artwork was saved, from Fantastic Four #1 on up! In fact, I heard a rumor several years ago that a collector had the art to FF #1.

 

...

 

So what's the story? Is someone claiming the original Marvel art was stacked near the front office and fans casually walked in and helped themselves?

 

I don't think it is any secret that the Marvel warehouse that had all of this original art (including the art from many key early books) was systematically looted by certain individuals long ago. Every now and then the issue comes up about whether Marvel or the creators have any legal basis for reclaiming this art (likewise for the pallets of DC artwork that was stolen in the 1970s).

 

Speaking of legal matters, didn't Steve Ditko threaten legal action against Heritage for auctioning off the ASM #10 complete story? Might he do the same with this book or are there differing circumstances on this one?

[spider9698]

Great point Gene. I do believe Ditko was planning on doing some legal muscle flexing when the ASM 10 book went up. Would not surprise me to see the sale pulled. The story was peddled to a few individuals over the past six months and I am assuming no one bit, hence the Mastro auction. Wonder if Heritage was approached by the consigner and they passed?

[comix4fun]

Tom Horvitz made a comment on the comic -l group that this book sold at Sotheby's for 200k around 1992....

 

 

That would have been amazing...people woulda been selling that buy bridges and dry oil wells in 1992 after they saw him pay that much .....( I know I know it was $22k )

C

[comix4fun]

Great point Gene. I do believe Ditko was planning on doing some legal muscle flexing when the ASM 10 book went up. Would not surprise me to see the sale pulled.

 

Ditko has zero interest in original artwork, or sales, or cash from it.

He has turned down the offer of collectors willing to return pages and has actually gotten angry at them for doing so.

 

It has also been said that Ditko has turned down royalty money from the Spider-man films. I don't think the threat of legal action came from Ditko and was credible in the least.

 

 

The story was peddled to a few individuals over the past six months and I am assuming no one bit, hence the Mastro auction. Wonder if Heritage was approached by the consigner and they passed?

 

The story was never peddled to anyone in the last six months and never to Heritage. The owner was not seeking out buyers. I know first hand on both counts.

That's all I am saying.

 

Chris

[*paull*]

"I have a theory, and wonder if anyone agrees... that all the Silver Age Marvel original artwork was saved"

 

Correction: "all the Silver Age Marvel original artwork was _STOLEN_"